Player Discussion The Future of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 2: Has His Recent Concussion Complicated Things More?

[Draiskull]

Maybe reunite the Drai-McD-Kassian line and see if that gets Kassian back to his old self. He made a couple nice touch passes last game but was disappointing otherwise.

Drai-McD-Kassian
Archibald-RNH-Puljujarvi
Neal/Kahun-McLeod-Yama
Kahun/Neal-Khaira-Chiasson

 

[Little Fury]

A million per year is significant when you're talking over a 4-5+ year period. It also sets a precedent for future negotiations when you overpay 2nd tier players.
.

A million bucks is not significant at all., like I said, that's the cost of a fourth line plug.

Marginally overpaying second tier players isn't a big deal either, it's overpaying 3rd and fourth tier players that's got the Oilers into trouble in the past.

I would have to think that Holland has a concrete plan in place just in case Nuge walks. Say what you want about Holland and he has his flaws but he's very thorough with his approach so I doubt he'd be caught with his pants down if Nuge walked.

Uh...what? The guy who gave Zach Kassian money and term? I reckon Holland overpays to keep Nuge or lets him walk but fails to find an adequate replacement. Either way, you're going to be very disappointed.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeh, Archibald seems to be the only guy who brought it in game 1. Kassian and Neal are getting paid good money to bring this element but just dont have it anymore. Khaira has failed at this as well.

I dont think we can knock Nuge because of a powerforward like Andersson.. Plenty of other valid reasons to prove that he just isnt a driver in this league.

Montreal got the memo. They kicked out a pint sized Max Domi and got a power forward. They figured out what direction the league was moving in and its been patently obvious since the Kings, Caps and STL blues were winning cups. Even Tampa had to massively amp their player size to build a resilient playoff club.

The NHL is increasingly becoming a rougher tougher game.

Put it this way. Perry came into the league not as physically strong a player. Sure he was tall. He would get knocked around a lot earlier on. He's not a mesomorph, he's also an ectomorph. But the guy is built out of rock now and its sustained his career and play at a high level, and because he had the dedication to craft to be the strongest lb per lb player he could be. Perry now plays the game so hard, is impossible to knock out of areas and competes for every puck. The knock on Nuge is he's the least possible to improve his strength and compete level in what is required in his craft.

 

[Little Fury]

Maybe reunite the Drai-McD-Kassian line and see if that gets Kassian back to his old self. He made a couple nice touch passes last game but was disappointing otherwise.

Drai-McD-Kassian
Archibald-RNH-Puljujarvi
Neal/Kahun-McLeod-Yama
Kahun/Neal-Khaira-Chiasson

Why in god's name would we tie an anchor to our best forwards to try and get that plug going?

 

[McOilers97]

The difference between a ok $6M contract and a terrible horrible $7M contract is the cost of a replacement level fourth line player, how is that the end of the world?

If we're trying to compete for a championship in the near future, it's going to matter. We're trying to upgrade our team, not pay through the teeth just to retain what we already have. Also, because the way that a team pays its' players impacts the negotiations with other players on their next contracts. How do you think negotiations with our young players like Puljujarvi and eventually Holloway are going to go if RNH is providing mediocre level of play for $7m, and they have passed him?

 

[CupofOil]

A million bucks is not significant at all., like I said, that's the cost of a fourth line plug.

Marginally overpaying second tier players isn't a big deal either, it's overpaying 3rd and fourth tier players that's got the Oilers into trouble in the past.

Uh...what? The guy who gave Zach Kassian money and term? I reckon Holland overpays to keep Nuge or lets him walk but fails to find an adequate replacement. Either way, you're going to be very disappointed.

Yes, you can't just pay players who barely move the needle a million too much for the reasons I mentioned.
As I said, it sets a bad precedent when you keep overpaying expendable players when going into future negotiations. Has nothing been learned since the Chia years?

To your second point, might as well give up all hope then.

 

[McOilers97]

A million bucks is not significant at all., like I said, that's the cost of a fourth line plug.

Marginally overpaying second tier players isn't a big deal either, it's overpaying 3rd and fourth tier players that's got the Oilers into trouble in the past.



Uh...what? The guy who gave Zach Kassian money and term? I reckon Holland overpays to keep Nuge or lets him walk but fails to find an adequate replacement. Either way, you're going to be very disappointed.

Lucic?

His career isn't as far behind RNH's as you might think, and his contract is easily the biggest problem we've had in the last 5 years. He was the same price-point as RNH makes too. And RNH now is the same age as Lucic was at time of signing. I don't expect RNH to fall off the same cliff that Lucic did, but his regression is coming, and may have already begun.

 

[CupofOil]

Not defending Nuge and not hating Drai as a player but just pointing out that he also lacks most of the qualities described for Andersson.

.

I misunderstood then. When you said "Drai can learn a thing or "10" from Andersson", I took that as a shot at him.

I do think Drai has been a bit too perimeter happy this season so I'd like to see him attack the middle of the ice more often. His line had great possession metrics in Game 1 but were rarely too threatening because it was a lot of cycling on the perimeter. Of course Yamamoto gives it a try getting to the tough areas but he's just too small to maintain position down there.

 

[Zaddy]

The difference between a ok $6M contract and a terrible horrible $7M contract is the cost of a replacement level fourth line player, how is that the end of the world?

That's not how it works at all. You have to be really naive to believe that $1M wouldn't make a meaningful difference in a cap world. That $1M could be the difference between affording a player that would be great here or missing out. It can also have massive implications for re-signing current Oilers. If you pay Nuge $7M over several years maybe you have to let someone else go that you'd ideally keep, thereby making the roster weaker, just because "$1M isn't a big deal".

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That's not how it works at all. You have to be really naive to believe that $1M wouldn't make a meaningful difference in a cap world. That $1M could be the difference between affording a player that would be great here or missing out. It can also have massive implications for re-signing current Oilers. If you pay Nuge $7M over several years maybe you have to let someone else go that you'd ideally keep, thereby making the roster weaker, just because "$1M isn't a big deal".

As opposed to paying Kassian 3, or Russel 4, or Chiasson...

 

[Zaddy]

As opposed to paying Kassian 3, or Russel 4, or Chiasson...

That's my whole point, these things add up. Death by a thousand cuts. You can't be complacent and just go "Eh, it's just an extra million, what does it matter?". That's a sure-fire way to never be a contender in this league. And just because you already have bad contracts on your roster doesn't mean you should add more of them lol.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That's my whole point, these things add up. Death by a thousand cuts. You can't be complacent and just go "Eh, it's just an extra million, what does it matter?". That's a sure-fire way to never be a contender in this league. And just because you already have bad contracts on your roster doesn't mean you should add more of them lol.

The problem isn't that we'd be overpaying Nuge. The problem is that we keep overpaying players regardless.

 

[belair]

Why in god's name would we tie an anchor to our best forwards to try and get that plug going?

Because the only time he ever does 'get going' is when he's playing on a scoring line. I can't remember the last time Kassian wasn't an absolute plug constantly putting himself out of position looking for nothing hits when he has had to play in the bottom six.

I'd be concerned about what happens to Puljujarvi's game. Maybe run something like...

Kahun - McDavid - Kassian
Nuge - Draisaitl - Puljujarvi
Neal - McLeod - Yamamoto

Neal and Kassian on a line together hasn't worked.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Because the only time he ever does 'get going' is when he's playing on a scoring line. I can't remember the last time Kassian wasn't an absolute plug constantly putting himself out of position looking for nothing hits when he has had to play in the bottom six.

I'd be concerned about what happens to Puljujarvi's game. Maybe run something like...

Kahun - McDavid - Kassian
Nuge - Draisaitl - Puljujarvi
Neal - McLeod - Yamamoto

Neal and Kassian on a line together hasn't worked.

Kassian sucked on McDavid's line too. That's why he was eventually demoted.

 

[GOilers88]

The problem isn't that we'd be overpaying Nuge. The problem is that we keep overpaying players regardless.

Certain markets just kind of have to. Yeah the organization has obviously made some terrible decisions, but when choosing between big American cities and a cold, northern climate with higher taxes, I can understand why somewhere like Edmonton might need to constantly overpay to try and lure players in.

 

[Zaddy]

The problem isn't that we'd be overpaying Nuge. The problem is that we keep overpaying players regardless.

All the more reason to stop doing it, no?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Certain markets just kind of have to. Yeah the organization has obviously made some terrible decisions, but when choosing between big American cities and a cold, northern climate with higher taxes, I can understand why somewhere like Edmonton might need to constantly overpay to try and lure players in.

I understand this notion but some of the contracts we've handed out were just... bad.

All the more reason to stop doing it, no?

I agree but Nuge is still a useful player unlike most of the players we've overpaid.

 

[belair]

All the more reason to stop doing it, no?

Imagine it. A team with nothing but ELCs. You want a raise? See ya!

 

[Zaddy]

Imagine it. A team with nothing but ELCs. You want a raise? See ya!

The price of winning

We're building a dynasty baby.

 

[GOilers88]

Imagine it. A team with nothing but ELCs. You want a raise? See ya!

Isn't that the Melnyk way?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Kassian sucked on McDavid's line too. That's why he was eventually demoted.

Because the only time he ever does 'get going' is when he's playing on a scoring line. I can't remember the last time Kassian wasn't an absolute plug constantly putting himself out of position looking for nothing hits when he has had to play in the bottom six.

I'd be concerned about what happens to Puljujarvi's game. Maybe run something like...

Kahun - McDavid - Kassian
Nuge - Draisaitl - Puljujarvi
Neal - McLeod - Yamamoto

Neal and Kassian on a line together hasn't worked.

Kassian did look fine when he played with Sheahan and Archi last season. But as you pointed out, that's because those two could cover for him while he chased hits. When he got tossed into roles where he was a key member, his game got really nurtured very fast (RE: he became a non-factor).

Imo if he's in the top 6, Kassian needs to be on a line with Draisaitl or Puljujarvi. Zack has never been that great as the main guy battling down low, he's more effective as the support guy. This is why he worked well with McDrai in 2019. but it wasn't because he gelled with McDavid: he was effective because he got to be Robin to Drai's Batman down low; and those two opened up a ton of ice for McDaivd.

So you can run Kassian in the top 6, if you're willing to commit to having one of the following line combos.

Kassian-_____-Puljujarvi
or
_____-Draisaitl-Kassian

Just so long as you stay away from the RNH-McDavid-Kassian line archotype., where he's playing with two smaller guys and Zack needs to be the main/only guy in the trenches.

 

[LTIR]

Montreal got the memo. They kicked out a pint sized Max Domi and got a power forward. They figured out what direction the league was moving in and its been patently obvious since the Kings, Caps and STL blues were winning cups. Even Tampa had to massively amp their player size to build a resilient playoff club.

The NHL is increasingly becoming a rougher tougher game.

Put it this way. Perry came into the league not as physically strong a player. Sure he was tall. He would get knocked around a lot earlier on. He's not a mesomorph, he's also an ectomorph. But the guy is built out of rock now and its sustained his career and play at a high level, and because he had the dedication to craft to be the strongest lb per lb player he could be. Perry now plays the game so hard, is impossible to knock out of areas and competes for every puck. The knock on Nuge is he's the least possible to improve his strength and compete level in what is required in his craft.

Yup, i would have been happy if Holland traded Nuge straight up for Foligno. CBJ could have test drove Nuge and would have been improved.

 

[GOilers88]

I could have sworn at the end of the Chiarelli term people mocked the approach to "heavy hockey" because the league was clearly heading towards speed and skill and the Oilers were behind the 8-Ball.

Now we're behind the 8-Ball again because the league is about heavy hockey and we're too small and not tough enough.

I'm not saying Chiarelli went after the right guys, and obviously you don't want coke machines all over the ice, but I do find it amusing how fast the entire game of hockey seems to flip flop amongst fans. Did it all really change and then change again in 2 to 3 years? I'm skeptical.

Personally, I'm of the opinion heavy hockey was always the standard, as it's always been the standard in playoffs. Like, forever. But balance is always the key in life.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

If Nuge is willing to do 5 years at 5.5, I can stomach that and bank on this being a down year for him.

 

[Snipes45]

Keep in mind that the term Nuge has been asking for is at least 5yrs, meaning the end age of the contracts is almost the same.

Do people not realize the importance of stud power forwards in a lineup. One type of player commands the ice, is felt all the time, and makes opponents a bit nervous and on guard. A player like Josh Anderson can lay claim to the ice. Tends to deter opponents. Not only did he score a goal, have several scoring chances, he laid several leafs out with thunderous checks, and made multiple excellent back checking plays breaking up one possible goal.

For money, I want players to have an impact on a game, and have a toolset that is likely to have impact when it matters, the playoffs.

This is the same Josh Anderson that was a good part of the Jackets dismantling of Tampa. No easy task. Love this player.

Absolutely insane how much better Josh is and how much impact he has on game and will make less

Josh has more impact plays in a game than nuge does in about ten games

Nuge literally does nothing on most games that stand out. Just a zero hero generator. His generator has no power