But they don't have any elite talent and you can't win a Cup without a top 3 pick!
It is far too simple an argument to say that you "need a top 3 pick". They need to find elite talent from somewhere. The place with the greatest amount of it is the top 3 of the draft, but if you aren't there, you can't just kick your feet into the dirt and say "Rats, we suck again."
You have to operate in the reality that we do. It would be amazing if we could win the lottery every year we don't make the playoffs or win the Cup every time we do. But sports are hard. And fans are just devolving into too binary of thinking when it comes to the game. It's gotten to "are you winning a title?" If not, you're garbage and should tank as hard as possible.
This is NHL network fluff. They don't have hard hitting analysis. Ever. Its what you can do when no one cares that your network exists. The future isn't that bright. Looking at the depth chart, they have one very good defense prospect. One good defense prospect. A very good to great winger prospect. And a ton of boom/bust type players. This isn't much different than the late 00's when people thought Detroit had an amazing prospect pool with Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, Kindl and a few guys that if they boom instead of bust would be able to help sustain the team. We saw how that panned out. They need elite talent, and good complementary players. Its not an either or thing.
I would argue that it's completely different, seeing as how these are completely different players.
You can, but, they still major holes in key positions that hoping a 2nd round player might develop into in half a decade isn't a tenable plan. In 5 years most of the current core will be pushing 30, and be on UFA contracts, whether they stay or not. They need a #1 d-man that will be NHL ready in the next couple seasons. They need a top 6 center that will be NHL ready in the next couple seasons. And the prospects, aside from Zadina, are all boom/bust. McIsaac COULD be a top 4 guy. Or he could bust. Ras could be a top line winger, or he could stay a bottom 6 physical winger. There isn't one player outside of Zadina that is a likely top of the line up player.
We do have some holes to fill, yeah. But, Larkin is 22/23, Bert (2nd rounder), Mantha, and AA (4th rounder) are 24/25 and improving every year. Hronek has looked good this year, Cholo has shown some flashes, and even Bowey improved. Add Zadina, Veleno, Svech, McIsaac, this year's picks and we have a solid foundation that's attractive to high-end free agents. I give it 2/3 years and we're contending.
Why?But they don't have any elite talent and you can't win a Cup without a top 3 pick!
It is far too simple an argument to say that you "need a top 3 pick". They need to find elite talent from somewhere. The place with the greatest amount of it is the top 3 of the draft, but if you aren't there, you can't just kick your feet into the dirt and say "Rats, we suck again."
You have to operate in the reality that we do.
You're really counting your chickens before they hatch. If Detroit contends in 2/3 years they will have pulled off a rebuild of the ages. I don't see it. The middle rate talent you listed aren't core pieces for a contender, aside from Larkin and maybe Zadina.
You can, but, they still major holes in key positions that hoping a 2nd round player might develop into in half a decade isn't a tenable plan. In 5 years most of the current core will be pushing 30, and be on UFA contracts, whether they stay or not. They need a #1 d-man that will be NHL ready in the next couple seasons. They need a top 6 center that will be NHL ready in the next couple seasons. And the prospects, aside from Zadina, are all boom/bust. McIsaac COULD be a top 4 guy. Or he could bust. Ras could be a top line winger, or he could stay a bottom 6 physical winger. There isn't one player outside of Zadina that is a likely top of the line up player.
You're really counting your chickens before they hatch. If Detroit contends in 2/3 years they will have pulled off a rebuild of the ages. I don't see it. The middle rate talent you listed aren't core pieces for a contender, aside from Larkin and maybe Zadina.
Isn’t that what a rebuild is? No one knows what will happen until it actually happens. You’re rebuilding in the hopes the players you pick work out.
Not sure what else can be done differently at this point except wait to see how the drafted players turn out?
For one, Steve Yzerman is all but assured to take over in the next year or so, so even if you think our current staff sucks at finding elite talent, we’re most likely getting a boss that has proven he is unbeatable at it.Why?
Detroit's current scouting and front office cannot find elite talent later in the draft, especially on defense. I simply don't think they're good enough.
They destroy the curve at finding secondary scoring under every last rock in middle rounds, and can land plenty of depth/role players. But Hronek and Cholowski are the first even above average defensemen they've found since Kronwall, and I don't think even the most optimistic of fans believes either of those players will ever be elite.
So yes, if you don't have a top 3 pick, it's still your job to find players elsewhere...
...But what leads you to believe that this staff will find the pieces they need most desperately, to anchor the rest of the (very good) pieces they have?
That Tom Wilson is nothing more than a middling talent bruiser, he'll never contribute to a cup win.You're really counting your chickens before they hatch. If Detroit contends in 2/3 years they will have pulled off a rebuild of the ages. I don't see it. The middle rate talent you listed aren't core pieces for a contender, aside from Larkin and maybe Zadina.
You're really counting your chickens before they hatch. If Detroit contends in 2/3 years they will have pulled off a rebuild of the ages. I don't see it. The middle rate talent you listed aren't core pieces for a contender, aside from Larkin and maybe Zadina.
That Tom Wilson is nothing more than a middling talent bruiser, he'll never contribute to a cup win.
While true, you are also dismisding them before they hatch as well.
We are gettibg a high pick but unless you want to start selling Mantha, Athanasiou, Larkin... I really don't see what your criticism is about. We have youngsters and the only thing that makes sense is to built on and around that. Which is whats being done... Will it work out? Too early to tell but I seriously don't see any viable options aside from whats being done.
Isn’t that what a rebuild is? No one knows what will happen until it actually happens. You’re rebuilding in the hopes the players you pick work out.
Not sure what else can be done differently at this point except wait to see how the drafted players turn out?
I think the future is brighter now than it has been, but I think there is a lot that still needs to be done before people start planting their flag into the idea the rebuild is going well. I think that's something that won't be clear until they are much further along. And for some people to say that they will contend in the next couple seasons really don't understand how bad this team is.
In many ways that's how Chicago and Toronto did it, probably other examples exist too.honestly depth should be the easy part
yeah you need both,but acquiring the depth first doesn't make me optimistic,it just makes the hard part harder
That's just like, your opinion, man. I'm forming my (yes, optimistic) opinion based on watching the majority of the games played this year with low expectations and going to Griffins games regularly so please don't assume I "don't understand" and I won't assume you don't.