OT: The Food & Drinks Thread Part Deux

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Mrb1p

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Yesterday I went to Brasseur de montréal to eat/drink.

Got a burger with chevre.

Meh. The beers are always meh at Brasseur de montréal, too.
 

Kriss E

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In terms of taste, the Syrians have you beat IMO. The Syrians seem to have an affinity for food not paralleled by many, they just don't know how to market it internationally.
Also, we need a proper knafeh (The Nablus or Jerusalem version to be exact) place in Montreal because that stuff Adonis sells is garbage lol
Well I heard Damas is delicious, have not yet had the chance to go yet though. Definitely on my list for next trip home.
 

GoodKiwi

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Had my very first Israeli falafel last night. I knew what to look for both appearance and smell -wise, but it still shocked me as to how fragrant it tasted. You can't have this in Montreal to my knowledge. The huge, oily and bitter balls of it we have there do not come close to the real thing.
 
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GoodKiwi

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It's a good list, but is heavily biased to North American (read USA) tastes.

No way the US should be there IMO. Their cuisine is borrowed from everywhere else, and even their regional dishes are heavily influenced from the Caribbean, Mexico and Europe. They should be at the bottom. What Americans mostly eat is over processed industrialized and commercialized food with sky high levels of salt, sugar and fat. {/rant}

Asia also offers Vietnam, Korea, and Indonesia, all of which have cuisines worthy of a high ranking.

I like your addition of Lebanon - there should certainly be Middle Eastern component as well as one from North Africa (Morocco) and Central Africa. Jamaica may indeed boast sufficient uniqueness to qualify as well.

I can't comment on South America, since most of what I've seen is a Spanish / Portuguese / Dutch hybrid.

Perhaps an entry or more from Northern /Eastern Europe. The food of Russia, Hungary, Czech, and Nordic and Scandinavian counties warrant consideration as well.

These days, I mostly cook Asian style dishes, predominantly from Thailand, Vietnam, Japan and Philippines. It used to be Italian, French, Greek and Hungarian.

There is no country I know of that can't offer up something delicious and unique created with fresh local products and a creative chef.

Tastes change with experience and media influenced popularity, so I'll assume that list will add and lose candidates on a regular basis.

I understand you know your food groove, so I only have one thing to tell you about the bolded - Alex Atala. Look him up and you will see a trailblazer that has been changing the way South American cuisine is perceived. If there are more influential chefs on the planet at the moment you could count them on the palm of your hand IMO.



P.S. We're talking ‎Ferran Adrià and René Redzepi territory here.

Whereas the former transformed innovation in food as we now know it and the latter showed us what sustainability and beauty the "ugly duckling" of it is, Atala (IMO) is the first chef to show us what food means to the local community and what it means to harness the ingredients at hand. Truly harness them and know what each step of that implies to everyone around you. He understands the "cause and effect" better than any chef I've ever seen.

Just as Grant Achatz (my favorite chef in the world as of now) brings a perspective at which the food has never been experienced before, Atala brings out its true roots.

Dem food boundaries... they can be tackled in more ways you or I could even think of.
 
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GoodKiwi

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Continuing on my earlier thought I have always took an issue with people that couldn't grasp at others elevating food into an art form. Never understood that narrow point of view and never will.

Is that because of the chewing we all have to do to consume it? It must be what brings it down in others' opinion.
 

Mrb1p

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Continuing on my earlier thought I have always took an issue with people that couldn't grasp at others elevating food into an art form. Never understood that narrow point of view and never will.

Is that because of the chewing we all have to do to consume it? It must be what brings it down in others' opinion.
I struggle with elevating anything as an art, tbh.

I also have trouble with what can be described as art, especially food wise.

I mean, why should a sushi by Ono be considered art, but not a "dirty" grub by a St Louis Pitmaster?

Its just elitism in his finest form.
 

GoodKiwi

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I struggle with elevating anything as an art, tbh.

I also have trouble with what can be described as art, especially food wise.

I mean, why should a sushi by Ono be considered art, but not a "dirty" grub by a St Louis Pitmaster?

Its just elitism in his finest form.
There's no plate of food that "should" be considered art whether it costs $5 or $500. That wasn't my point at all.

Just apply the same criteria as you would to whatever you might consider to be art. Do works of, say, Monet move the needle for you? How is it different when it comes to pushing the envelope? That was my main point. Without those willing, progress cannot be had. Even if it's viewed as the proverbial "chicken finger" at its time. We must have those that are brave enough to confront the stereotypes.

P.S.
And your last sentence is so out of touch with reality you should know it yourself.
 

Kriss E

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I struggle with elevating anything as an art, tbh.

I also have trouble with what can be described as art, especially food wise.

I mean, why should a sushi by Ono be considered art, but not a "dirty" grub by a St Louis Pitmaster?

Its just elitism in his finest form.
Well, culinary arts is a thing.
I do agree however, I think you can put art in front of anything.

But then...if everything is art...then nothing is...
Good night. *Mic Drop*
 

GoodKiwi

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Well, culinary arts is a thing.
I do agree however, I think you can put art in front of anything.

But then...if everything is art...then nothing is...
Good night. *Mic Drop*

You can and you should. Solely by the very definition of the word.
 
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Mrb1p

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There's no plate of food that "should" be considered art whether it costs $5 or $500. That wasn't my point at all.

Just apply the same criteria as you would to whatever you might consider to be art. Do works of, say, Monet move the needle for you? How is it different when it comes to pushing the envelope? That was my main point. Without those willing, progress cannot be had. Even if it's viewed as the proverbial "chicken finger" at its time. We must have those that are brave enough to confront the stereotypes.

P.S.
And your last sentence is so out of touch with reality you should know it yourself.
Its out of touch with reality? Come on. Theres a real elitism to culinary arts.
 

Mrb1p

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Well, culinary arts is a thing.
I do agree however, I think you can put art in front of anything.

But then...if everything is art...then nothing is...
Good night. *Mic Drop*
But what art, as a concept, is pushed too easily? Can food really be art? Is it creative?

Theres a certain disparity between the works of Shostakovich and the word of Bottura. I mean, one of them lines up four pastas on a plate and the other lines up countless numbers of melodies together.
 

GoodKiwi

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Its out of touch with reality? Come on. Theres a real elitism to culinary arts.

Firstly, there's no such thing as culinary arts. Arts, of any kind, are defined by two things and two things only IMO - creation and perception. The definition is all-encompassing and should not be sub-branded IMO.

But, to your larger point, I can agree that there is a stigma about it that still exists. But it absolutely must because myself and Joe Shmoe won't transform culinary industry all by ourselves. It will take the privileged few for new norms to be set. I'm not saying I'm happy about that, but it's just the way it's always been in our society. Food or otherwise.
 
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GoodKiwi

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But what art, as a concept, is pushed too easily? Can food really be art? Is it creative?

Theres a certain disparity between the works of Shostakovich and the word of Bottura. I mean, one of them lines up four pastas on a plate and the other lines up countless numbers of melodies together.
Yes it can and it is. We're not in the fold, you and I, but we will be bound by the ripples current trends create. You can't fight it, it will percolate down to the both of ours levels given enough time.
 
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groovejuice

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Its out of touch with reality? Come on. Theres a real elitism to culinary arts.

There is elitism. However that does not necessitate any particular chef to practice elitism, nor his food be any more or less a work of art.

For example, Gordon Ramsey is an elitist POS. José Andres is elite.
 

GoodKiwi

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There is elitism. However that does not necessitate any particular chef to practice elitism, nor his food be any more or less a work of art.

For example, Gordon Ramsey is an elitist POS. José Andres is elite.

:madfire:

But...but... Gordon Ramsey can make his beef wellington recipe perfectly on camera, given only 10 cuts!

Plus, he can always partner up with you on your new restaurant venture to screw you over in the end.
 

GoodKiwi

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There is elitism. However that does not necessitate any particular chef to practice elitism, nor his food be any more or less a work of art.

For example, Gordon Ramsey is an elitist POS. José Andres is elite.
Thinking about your first sentence further...

Is it a chef's fault of mastering excellence and creating something that forces the masses to his restaurant? How often are the really elite ones that think of simply filling their wallets as they emerge? I can answer the last one - almost never. They don't do what they do to fill up a 14 seat shop that is only open once per week. They do not do it to have their plates run at hundreds of dollars per. That's just a by-product of their success. Now, are there those that fall prey to it? Absolutely. But never the truly gifted and motivated among them.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
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Thinking about your first sentence further...

Is it a chef's fault of mastering excellence and creating something that forces the masses to his restaurant? How often are the really elite ones that think of simply filling their wallets as they emerge? I can answer the last one - almost never. They don't do what they do to fill up a 14 seat shop that is only open once per week. They do not do it to have their plates run at hundreds of dollars per. That's just a by-product of their success. Now, are there those that fall prey to it? Absolutely. But never the truly gifted and motivated among them.

Elitism can be understood as snobbery. I differentiate between elite cuisine and elitist chefs. Between artistry and forgery. Between profiting and profiteering.

Batali is a tremendously talented chef; some would say genius. He's a crappy human being however, and he will rightly end up as a skid mark on the diaper of the Pantheon of media chefs.
 
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GoodKiwi

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"Early on in Alinea... we had this realization that... there's other "disciplines" that we can draw on for inspiration.
We would go to art gallery and see these giant pieces of art and I would always say... Why can't we plate on THAT?
It frustrated me that as a chef we were limited to scale that was determined by plate manufacturers.
Why not...a table cloth... that we can eat off of?
Why do you have to eat with a fork or a spoon?
And why does it have to be served in a plate or a bowl?
Why can't we come up with something new?
Every element of a restaurant we tried to break down...we'd go... is this the best way it can exist? Or is there a better version?

Rules... pfft... there are no rules. Do whatever you want."

-- Grant Achatz

One of those rare quotes during which I remember what I was doing and where I was doing it as I first heard it. Was a trans-formative experience for me.
 
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Le Tricolore

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So any other bourbon fans here? What is everyone's favourite? And how about favourite you could get at the SAQ?

My favourite that I've had so far is the Four Roses Single Barrel. I buy it whenever I see it when I'm travelling. As for what's at the SAQ you can't really do wrong with Eagle Rare.
 

Runner77

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The huge, oily and bitter balls of it we have there do not come close to the real thing.

I could swear that sounded like an account from a Men's Steam Bath establishment. :laugh:
 
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LyricalLyricist

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Well, again, if everything is art...then nothing is.

Art is a tricky subject because a lot of times we're told to believe the most expensive, colorful or well prepared dishes or pieces of artwork are 'true' art.

In reality, anything and everything can be art. I can find a plate of poutine art and a dish elsewhere pretentious.

What matters however is in our own realities/perspectives what do we consider more artistic?

While your point is valid in general terms there isn't one person who considers everything art. IF there was then yes, nothing would be IMO.

I'm not artistic in that way so for me it's mostly the basics of presentation. You get a carefully prepared dish(taste wise) with good presentation and I'm happy. Anything more loses appeal with me.

In a lot of walks of life people consider value added and non-value added activities. Watching someone carefully prepare a steak to the perfect doneness with a crispy char on the outside plated in a dish of various equally appealing sides is great. Watching someone drop little drops of sauce carefully around the edges of a plate to make it look fancy may be artistic to some but its completely non-value added to me.
 

Runner77

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Air Canada has come up with its annual top 10 new restaurants list across Canada.

For those of us in Montreal, we have two highly ranked entries that we can go for. Two local restaurants finished 2nd and 3rd on the list: Air Canada's Top New Restaurant Of 2018 Is Housed In A Big, Black Barn

However, there are several other restaurants that made the list, that are spread out across Canada. Maybe our posters who live in the areas they hail from, can give us their take on them or try them and let us know if they deserved to be on the list.

The above top 10 list was the result of a larger list that had been released in August: These Are The Contenders For The Best New Canadian Restaurants Of 2018
 
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