1. I think his impact as a fighter is overstated, especially in today's environment. Yeah it was great in 2011 when he got here, but the game has changed so much. He didn't/couldn't fight last year and it had little to no impact on the team. The kids run the league now. It's a different culture.You're not wrong about those facts. But what exactly are you suggesting though, that Wayne isn't a feared scrapper now or that he doesn't effectively serve as a deterrent for other NHL regulars looking to get under our player's skin? I doubt that's what you're trying to say, but I'm not sure.
Fighting is pretty much dead.
If they can replace him at EV+PP seamlessly... which they should be able to... then he should be traded.
Patrick showed last year he could do as good a job 5v4 as Simmonds, over a decent sample.
Simmonds at 5v5 the last couple of years has produced less than Weal, and identically to Laughton. And he is just "meh" defensively at 5v5.
I’m not sure Myers or Ratcliffe will serve as much of a cheap shot deterrent. I disagree that size in and of itself is a significant deterrent. I don’t think people thought twice because Therien & Grossmann were on the ice.In two years, the Flyers may have Myers, Morin, Ratcliffe, Allison, and Gudas as an actual threat.
Just having big guys is enough to intimidate most cheap shot artists, because even without fighting, they'll eventually find themselves in a corner or a pile in front of the net with someone 20 lbs heavier. And like football scrums, elbows and other parts of the anatomy become weaponized.
You don’t need a “cheap shot detterent” because no such thing actually exists.
Can someone tell me a time period when there were no cheap shots and no injuries? Because there used be a ton of “enforcers” in the league and I remember quite a few cheap shots being taken despite their patrolling.
Completely different concept in the NHL.Sure they still happen. It’s a matter of degree. I’ll acknowledge I have no way of quantifying a difference — but neither do you. So it’s conjecture on both our parts, even if you adamantly state “there’s no such thing.” I’m basing my conjecture on the fact that if a little dweeb by himself dares flick something at me, I’m going to kill him. But if he’s got Hatcher standing next to him, I’ll probably give a lot of lip but think twice about starting a physical altercation. If you don’t believe that exists in human psychology, that’s your prerogative.
Completely different concept in the NHL.
It’s not like hiring a bodyguard to stick by your side all day. They actually have to be able to play the sport, otherwise you don’t need to lay a big/dirty hit to gain an advantage. Just expose the trash goon by skating circles around him.
Or you could just wait until they’re off the ice and hit someone who doesn’t play on his line. If he comes after you later, great, take your PP as the refs stop him and you’ve won twice.
The intangible advantages don’t outweigh the tangible disadvantages.
You’re misrepresenting my argument as advocating for bodyguard-only players. What you originally responded to was my claim that I think Simmonds helps deter some cheap shots — you said there’s no such thing as deterring cheap shots. I disagree, but neither of us can statistically prove it. I can only cite my own beliefs in human psychology. I never in this thread advocated for a guy who can’t play but only serves as a policeman. I said one of the things I liked about Simmonds—who can undeniably play—is he stands up for teammates & helps deter some cheap shots.
You quoted my post.Nope.
I just saw multiple people mention a type of deterrent role and then I made a general post about the topic. That’s why I didn’t quote anyone.
Are you saying there’s no value to having someone on your team who will physically respond to cheap shots?God only knows what Komarov would’ve done to Ghost this past season if Simmonds wasn’t on the ice.
In my 2nd post...You quoted my post.
Ok. Then replace my statement that you responded to “my claim that I think Simmonds helps deter some cheap shots” to “any claim anyone could help deter some cheap shots.”In my 2nd post...
You said “what you originally responded to” and my original post didn’t quote anyone.
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/148776811/
The post I quoted didn’t even mention Simmonds.
Like you said, neither of us have proof, so in the absense of proof we’ll just assume that this magical force doesn’t exist.Ok. Then replace my statement that you responded to “my claim that I think Simmonds helps deter some cheap shots” to “any claim anyone could help deter some cheap shots.”