The Fire John Hynes Thread

[Spoiled Bratt]

Then trade him. What I'm saying is Shero cannot afford to sit on his ass and do nothing while Hynes pisses the season away.

You don’t need to trade him if he shows some type leadership. The coach isn’t the one on the ice who isn’t finishing wide open chances. Are they helping our cause by staying status quo with the same personnel on our PP, absolutely... but our top line has been intact since day#1 and they haven’t done shit in 5 games.

 

[NJDevs26]

If you’re supposed to be the star of the team, you have to play like a star. If you want to make the playoffs, you need to play with desperation, you need to play like a leader, you need to gather the troops and have everyone pushing in the same direction, etc, etc, etc.

As of now, this team looks lifeless and I don’t see anyone, outside of Zajac, who’s had enough of this BS. He’s the only one I saw who showed some emotion.

Taylor Hall is a good player but I don’t think he’s the type of player you build your team around. I’m not saying he’s the main reason why the teams he’s played on we’re bottom feeders but one would think that there comes a point when you’re the common denominator, no?

Change your screename then

Honestly though it does look bad if the Oilers go to the playoffs for a second time without him while we've only gone once with him. Then again bad coaches follow Hall around like lottery balls do.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Wasn’t his MVP season sort of an anomaly...I don’t think he ever had another season putting up numbers like that one...

EDIT: Just looked it up...yep he’s only cracked 65 points twice in 9 seasons...once with the oilers and then the mvp season. Some of that is due to injuries but that should be included when factoring in his effectiveness.

I’m officially on the “he should not be extended” bandwagon. Not worth the percentage of cap he will take up while entering his 30’s.

 

[Tretyak 20]

You don’t need to trade him if he shows some type leadership. The coach isn’t the one on the ice who isn’t finishing wide open chances. Are they helping our cause by staying status quo with the same personnel on our PP, absolutely... but our top line has been intact since day#1 and they haven’t done **** in 5 games.

You're totally missing the point. Hall isn't the reason every aspect of this team's game and almost every player sucks.

 

[Rielly4]

what is he doing with the lines? Refuses to try Hughes with any good players?

 

[jkrdevil]

Let’s see how things work under a new coach before casting aspersions and trying to psychoanalyze players.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

You're totally missing the point. Hall isn't the reason every aspect of this team's game and almost every player sucks.

No, you’re missing the point. Hall’s line has been the same since day #1 (and last year) and he has his spot on the LW on our main PP unit but hasn’t produced anything for someone who’s looking to hit the jackpot come July 1st.

Hynes has juggled every single lines but Hall’s, so we can blame our HC for a lot of shit but Hall’s no show isn’t one of them.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Change your screename then

Honestly though it does look bad if the Oilers go to the playoffs for a second time without him while we've only gone once with him. Then again bad coaches follow Hall around like lottery balls do.

I really should!

 

[Tretyak 20]

No, you’re missing the point. Hall’s line has been the same since day #1 (and last year) and he has his spot on the LW on our main PP unit but hasn’t produced anything for someone who’s looking to hit the jackpot come July 1st.

Hynes has juggled every single lines but Hall’s, so we can blame our HC for a lot of **** but Hall’s no show isn’t one of them.

When you play a complete shit "system" - no one is going to do well.

Just watch this team and tell me when anyone even has a passing lane open.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Let me put things a different way. If Hall had 3 goals in his first 5 games that would be great, right?

So imagine Hall scored one against Boston, one against Philly and one against Buffalo. Does that change anything about the Devils' season so far?

 

[Call Me Al]

You said "it's a bit much" to declare someone's season over after 3 weeks. That's about 10 games.

So I pointed out that mathematically, no, it really isnt "a bit much" to all but declare a season over after 10 games if you put up X of a record.

3 weeks will be our 8th game. and yes it’s still definitely a bit much

 

[devilsblood]

Let me put things a different way. If Hall had 3 goals in his first 5 games that would be great, right?

So imagine Hall scored one against Boston, one against Philly and one against Buffalo. Does that change anything about the Devils' season so far?

Not so into the hypothetical game, but if he had scored just 2 goals and they were in the two OT's(and he had great ops in each) then yeah that certainly changes things.

 

[devilsblood]

When you play a complete **** "system" - no one is going to do well.

Just watch this team and tell me when anyone even has a passing lane open.

So has the system changed from his MVP season?

The knee is not 100%. That's how I'm seeing it.

 

[MaxR11]

If you’re supposed to be the star of the team, you have to play like a star. If you want to make the playoffs, you need to play with desperation, you need to play like a leader, you need to gather the troops and have everyone pushing in the same direction, etc, etc, etc.

As of now, this team looks lifeless and I don’t see anyone, outside of Zajac, who’s had enough of this BS. He’s the only one I saw who showed some emotion.

Taylor Hall is a good player but I don’t think he’s the type of player you build your team around. I’m not saying he’s the main reason why the teams he’s played on we’re bottom feeders but one would think that there comes a point when you’re the common denominator, no?

You're on to it. I've watched him enough in Edmonton and those of us who are more in the hockey circles know Hall is not a guy you build your team around. You'll get a bunch of guys on hf boards who aren't really hockey people tell you he's amazing. He can get his points here and there, usually in Edm when the going is easy. When the games get tough and the intensity ramps up he usually disappears. Klefbom has even mentioned this.

All this is based on what i saw in Edm and a few games vs Edm while he's been in NJ. He's not terrible skilled with the puck. Not a skilled and strong possessor of the puck and a bad giveaway machine. True stars will dominate the puck in every zone. Not saying they have to rag the puck through 3 guys but they will protect it well and make good plays very often with it. Hall... not so much. He's more of a great secondary scorer with the ability at times to dominate offensive play because of his speed. If you're relying on him to consistently be the man, a leader and primary offensive player... you might have troubles. If he stays with NJ he'll have to be a secondary guy to Hughes, Hischier etc.... if you want a truly good team.

Although, myself i'm not convinced he's such a great teammate to have around. In Edm he pouted and sagged too much. He helped bring the team down as far as confidence , buy in and unity because he was one of our best players and he didn't have a good attitude. Not sure what he's like in NJ but a zebra never completely changes his stripes imo. When things go well i'm sure he's fine to be around. When things don't... especially with regard to his own stats.... well.....

I know myself, and a bunch of people I know would NOT want to have Hall back here even at 6 mil. Mainly because of potential attitude issues and remembering his lack of want to play responsible all over the ice and not make stupid plays and giveaways at terrible times.

and if you don't believe me... maybe you'll believe Ference.... even though he didn't really name names, it's pretty clear who he refers to in this article... Andrew Ference goes nuclear, rips terrible practice habits, party atmosphere of 2013-15 Edmonton Oilers

 

[Triumph]

You're on to it. I've watched him enough in Edmonton and those of us who are more in the hockey circles know Hall is not a guy you build your team around. You'll get a bunch of guys on hf boards who aren't really hockey people tell you he's amazing. He can get his points here and there, usually in Edm when the going is easy. When the games get tough and the intensity ramps up he usually disappears. Klefbom has even mentioned this.

All this is based on what i saw in Edm and a few games vs Edm while he's been in NJ. He's not terrible skilled with the puck. Not a skilled and strong possessor of the puck and a bad giveaway machine. True stars will dominate the puck in every zone. Not saying they have to rag the puck through 3 guys but they will protect it well and make good plays very often with it. Hall... not so much. He's more of a great secondary scorer with the ability at times to dominate offensive play because of his speed. If you're relying on him to consistently be the man, a leader and primary offensive player... you might have troubles. If he stays with NJ he'll have to be a secondary guy to Hughes, Hischier etc.... if you want a truly good team.

Although, myself i'm not convinced he's such a great teammate to have around. In Edm he pouted and sagged too much. He helped bring the team down as far as confidence , buy in and unity because he was one of our best players and he didn't have a good attitude. Not sure what he's like in NJ but a zebra never completely changes his stripes imo. When things go well i'm sure he's fine to be around. When things don't... especially with regard to his own stats.... well.....

I know myself, and a bunch of people I know would NOT want to have Hall back here even at 6 mil. Mainly because of potential attitude issues and remembering his lack of want to play responsible all over the ice and not make stupid plays and giveaways at terrible times.

and if you don't believe me... maybe you'll believe Ference.... even though he didn't really name names, it's pretty clear who he refers to in this article... Andrew Ference goes nuclear, rips terrible practice habits, party atmosphere of 2013-15 Edmonton Oilers

Thanks for this - Devils fans are down right now and we needed a good laugh. There's just a series of setups and punchlines in here, one better than the next.

 

[R8Devs]

You're on to it. I've watched him enough in Edmonton and those of us who are more in the hockey circles know Hall is not a guy you build your team around. You'll get a bunch of guys on hf boards who aren't really hockey people tell you he's amazing. He can get his points here and there, usually in Edm when the going is easy. When the games get tough and the intensity ramps up he usually disappears. Klefbom has even mentioned this.

All this is based on what i saw in Edm and a few games vs Edm while he's been in NJ. He's not terrible skilled with the puck. Not a skilled and strong possessor of the puck and a bad giveaway machine. True stars will dominate the puck in every zone. Not saying they have to rag the puck through 3 guys but they will protect it well and make good plays very often with it. Hall... not so much. He's more of a great secondary scorer with the ability at times to dominate offensive play because of his speed. If you're relying on him to consistently be the man, a leader and primary offensive player... you might have troubles. If he stays with NJ he'll have to be a secondary guy to Hughes, Hischier etc.... if you want a truly good team.

Although, myself i'm not convinced he's such a great teammate to have around. In Edm he pouted and sagged too much. He helped bring the team down as far as confidence , buy in and unity because he was one of our best players and he didn't have a good attitude. Not sure what he's like in NJ but a zebra never completely changes his stripes imo. When things go well i'm sure he's fine to be around. When things don't... especially with regard to his own stats.... well.....

I know myself, and a bunch of people I know would NOT want to have Hall back here even at 6 mil. Mainly because of potential attitude issues and remembering his lack of want to play responsible all over the ice and not make stupid plays and giveaways at terrible times.

and if you don't believe me... maybe you'll believe Ference.... even though he didn't really name names, it's pretty clear who he refers to in this article... Andrew Ference goes nuclear, rips terrible practice habits, party atmosphere of 2013-15 Edmonton Oilers

or you can look at how the teams performed when he's not on the ice to see why his teams have been bad.

 

[jkrdevil]

The guy had a 20+ game point streak and scored every big goal to propel us into the playoffs a few years ago. So I’m not going to buy that is isn’t a guy who can elevate his game, drive a game, and come through in the big moments.

 

[R8Devs]

The guy had a 20+ game point streak and scored every big goal to propel us into the playoffs a few years ago. So I’m not going to buy that is isn’t a guy who can elevate his game, drive a game, and come through in the big moments.

people have had that lazy narrative about him.

who cares how much emotion a guy shows on the bench? jesus christ

 

[NjDevsRR]

You're on to it. I've watched him enough in Edmonton and those of us who are more in the hockey circles know Hall is not a guy you build your team around. You'll get a bunch of guys on hf boards who aren't really hockey people tell you he's amazing. He can get his points here and there, usually in Edm when the going is easy. When the games get tough and the intensity ramps up he usually disappears. Klefbom has even mentioned this.

All this is based on what i saw in Edm and a few games vs Edm while he's been in NJ. He's not terrible skilled with the puck. Not a skilled and strong possessor of the puck and a bad giveaway machine. True stars will dominate the puck in every zone. Not saying they have to rag the puck through 3 guys but they will protect it well and make good plays very often with it. Hall... not so much. He's more of a great secondary scorer with the ability at times to dominate offensive play because of his speed. If you're relying on him to consistently be the man, a leader and primary offensive player... you might have troubles. If he stays with NJ he'll have to be a secondary guy to Hughes, Hischier etc.... if you want a truly good team.

Although, myself i'm not convinced he's such a great teammate to have around. In Edm he pouted and sagged too much. He helped bring the team down as far as confidence , buy in and unity because he was one of our best players and he didn't have a good attitude. Not sure what he's like in NJ but a zebra never completely changes his stripes imo. When things go well i'm sure he's fine to be around. When things don't... especially with regard to his own stats.... well.....

I know myself, and a bunch of people I know would NOT want to have Hall back here even at 6 mil. Mainly because of potential attitude issues and remembering his lack of want to play responsible all over the ice and not make stupid plays and giveaways at terrible times.

and if you don't believe me... maybe you'll believe Ference.... even though he didn't really name names, it's pretty clear who he refers to in this article... Andrew Ference goes nuclear, rips terrible practice habits, party atmosphere of 2013-15 Edmonton Oilers

LMAO

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

You're on to it. I've watched him enough in Edmonton and those of us who are more in the hockey circles know Hall is not a guy you build your team around. You'll get a bunch of guys on hf boards who aren't really hockey people tell you he's amazing. He can get his points here and there, usually in Edm when the going is easy. When the games get tough and the intensity ramps up he usually disappears. Klefbom has even mentioned this.

All this is based on what i saw in Edm and a few games vs Edm while he's been in NJ. He's not terrible skilled with the puck. Not a skilled and strong possessor of the puck and a bad giveaway machine. True stars will dominate the puck in every zone. Not saying they have to rag the puck through 3 guys but they will protect it well and make good plays very often with it. Hall... not so much. He's more of a great secondary scorer with the ability at times to dominate offensive play because of his speed. If you're relying on him to consistently be the man, a leader and primary offensive player... you might have troubles. If he stays with NJ he'll have to be a secondary guy to Hughes, Hischier etc.... if you want a truly good team.

Although, myself i'm not convinced he's such a great teammate to have around. In Edm he pouted and sagged too much. He helped bring the team down as far as confidence , buy in and unity because he was one of our best players and he didn't have a good attitude. Not sure what he's like in NJ but a zebra never completely changes his stripes imo. When things go well i'm sure he's fine to be around. When things don't... especially with regard to his own stats.... well.....

I know myself, and a bunch of people I know would NOT want to have Hall back here even at 6 mil. Mainly because of potential attitude issues and remembering his lack of want to play responsible all over the ice and not make stupid plays and giveaways at terrible times.

and if you don't believe me... maybe you'll believe Ference.... even though he didn't really name names, it's pretty clear who he refers to in this article... Andrew Ference goes nuclear, rips terrible practice habits, party atmosphere of 2013-15 Edmonton Oilers

Thanks for the well thought out post. Good article. It does jibe with some of the points in this article with respect to Hall not having the work ethic of other top NHL players earlier in his career and it mentions his puck skills as you did.

"Hall didn’t surround himself with yes men who would feed his ego. He experimented with training methods that had steep learning curves, where his problem areas were exposed. Everything was new, difficult and challenging. Once a week, he worked with Joe Quinn’s Power Edge Pro, a small-areas skill training that McDavid has been using since he was in grade school. Hall struggled.
“When I started doing that I was pretty terrible to be honest,” Hall said, “and then you get better at the puck handling and what they want you to do. That was just another tool to use.”
It was humbling. But it was also refreshing."
Taylor Hall’s winter of discontent became a summer of reinvention leading to this season’s rebirth

 

[Blender]

You're on to it. I've watched him enough in Edmonton and those of us who are more in the hockey circles know Hall is not a guy you build your team around. You'll get a bunch of guys on hf boards who aren't really hockey people tell you he's amazing. He can get his points here and there, usually in Edm when the going is easy. When the games get tough and the intensity ramps up he usually disappears. Klefbom has even mentioned this.

All this is based on what i saw in Edm and a few games vs Edm while he's been in NJ. He's not terrible skilled with the puck. Not a skilled and strong possessor of the puck and a bad giveaway machine. True stars will dominate the puck in every zone. Not saying they have to rag the puck through 3 guys but they will protect it well and make good plays very often with it. Hall... not so much. He's more of a great secondary scorer with the ability at times to dominate offensive play because of his speed. If you're relying on him to consistently be the man, a leader and primary offensive player... you might have troubles. If he stays with NJ he'll have to be a secondary guy to Hughes, Hischier etc.... if you want a truly good team.

Although, myself i'm not convinced he's such a great teammate to have around. In Edm he pouted and sagged too much. He helped bring the team down as far as confidence , buy in and unity because he was one of our best players and he didn't have a good attitude. Not sure what he's like in NJ but a zebra never completely changes his stripes imo. When things go well i'm sure he's fine to be around. When things don't... especially with regard to his own stats.... well.....

I know myself, and a bunch of people I know would NOT want to have Hall back here even at 6 mil. Mainly because of potential attitude issues and remembering his lack of want to play responsible all over the ice and not make stupid plays and giveaways at terrible times.

and if you don't believe me... maybe you'll believe Ference.... even though he didn't really name names, it's pretty clear who he refers to in this article... Andrew Ference goes nuclear, rips terrible practice habits, party atmosphere of 2013-15 Edmonton Oilers

 

[tr83]

people have had that lazy narrative about him.

who cares how much emotion a guy shows on the bench? jesus christ

While I get that to these guys it's just a job and that one game or two doesn't matter much, it should eat at a guy that the team is underperforming.

I don't get as worked up over things at my job like I used to because it's just another day. But there are systemic things at my job that eat at me, usually the result of my coworkers who give zero f***s and supervisors who don't hold them accountable. That ends up being more work for me and/or having to find excuses for these people.

I liked that Zajac got hot tempered the other night by slamming the door shut. Precious time for him is slipping by and guys around and above him don't seem to have the tools to do their job.

I don't see Taylor Hall getting upset about much of anything. I'd figure that as he gets older, with bum knees, and the league keeps getting younger, he might start getting frustrated as his time is starting to become finite.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

You're on to it. I've watched him enough in Edmonton and those of us who are more in the hockey circles know Hall is not a guy you build your team around. You'll get a bunch of guys on hf boards who aren't really hockey people tell you he's amazing. He can get his points here and there, usually in Edm when the going is easy. When the games get tough and the intensity ramps up he usually disappears. Klefbom has even mentioned this.

All this is based on what i saw in Edm and a few games vs Edm while he's been in NJ. He's not terrible skilled with the puck. Not a skilled and strong possessor of the puck and a bad giveaway machine. True stars will dominate the puck in every zone. Not saying they have to rag the puck through 3 guys but they will protect it well and make good plays very often with it. Hall... not so much. He's more of a great secondary scorer with the ability at times to dominate offensive play because of his speed. If you're relying on him to consistently be the man, a leader and primary offensive player... you might have troubles. If he stays with NJ he'll have to be a secondary guy to Hughes, Hischier etc.... if you want a truly good team.

Although, myself i'm not convinced he's such a great teammate to have around. In Edm he pouted and sagged too much. He helped bring the team down as far as confidence , buy in and unity because he was one of our best players and he didn't have a good attitude. Not sure what he's like in NJ but a zebra never completely changes his stripes imo. When things go well i'm sure he's fine to be around. When things don't... especially with regard to his own stats.... well.....

I know myself, and a bunch of people I know would NOT want to have Hall back here even at 6 mil. Mainly because of potential attitude issues and remembering his lack of want to play responsible all over the ice and not make stupid plays and giveaways at terrible times.

and if you don't believe me... maybe you'll believe Ference.... even though he didn't really name names, it's pretty clear who he refers to in this article... Andrew Ference goes nuclear, rips terrible practice habits, party atmosphere of 2013-15 Edmonton Oilers

Very solid post!

The majority of this board will have the reaction that some already had in response to your post but that’s normal I guess. According to the majority of this fan base, Hall can do no wrong and the coach is the reason for all our downfalls. The same coach that was here when he won the MVP of the league is coaching him differently 2 years later. I’m sure Hynes told Hall that he needed to change his MVP performance and play a more passive game. It’s always in the coaches best interest to have his best player underperform while losing multiple games in a row

Again, I’m on board with your POV and I’m sure there’s a lot of truth to what you’re saying but I also think (or hope) he matured a little and is sick and tired of getting his teeth caved in every single year. If he has any pride, any ambition, any respect for the game... one has to think that winning is the main reason you play the game. If he continues on the same path, he’ll be known as the guy with the most talent, who went #1 overall and managed to be on bottom feeding teams his entire career.

I hope we don’t give him the 8 year, 88M$ deal he’s probably looking for because I see it more as an anchor then anything else. For everyone who’s wondering why Shero hasn’t resigned Hall, I’m certain he’s being tentative for those exact reasons. He’s a very good player, but I doubt he’s captain/leader material and that’s a lot of coin to give to a player who won’t be your go-to-guy.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Very solid post!

The majority of this board will have the reaction that some already had in response to your post but that’s normal I guess. According to the majority of this fan base, Hall can do no wrong and the coach is the reason for all our downfalls. The same coach that was here when he won the MVP of the league is coaching him differently 2 years later. I’m sure Hynes told Hall that he needed to change his MVP performance and play a more passive game. It’s always in the coaches best interest to have his best player underperform while losing multiple games in a row

Again, I’m on board with your POV and I’m sure there’s a lot of truth to what you’re saying but I also think (or hope) he matured a little and is sick and tired of getting his teeth caved in every single year. If he has any pride, any ambition, any respect for the game... one has to think that winning is the main reason you play the game. If he continues on the same path, he’ll be known as the guy with the most talent, who went #1 overall and managed to be on bottom feeding teams his entire career.

I hope we don’t give him the 8 year, 88M$ deal he’s probably looking for because I see it more as an anchor then anything else. For everyone who’s wondering why Shero hasn’t resigned Hall, I’m certain he’s being tentative for those exact reasons. He’s a very good player, but I doubt he’s captain/leader material and that’s a lot of coin to give to a player who won’t be your go-to-guy.

A very solid post is not one that is factually wrong and with opinions that can easily be debunked.

 

[glenwo2]

I agree with him here. Shero needs to find some urgency and fire this staff.

My reaction to that Hynes statement is a big fat Nicholas Cage "YOU DON'T SAY?"