Confirmed with Link: The entire league lacks pride; also are cowards

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Putt Pirate

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Imagine hating or even "not supporting" a group of people that makes up 0.5% of the population... If somebody simply existing offends you that sounds like delicate snowflake behavior.

"News" media truly broken peoples brains.
That population % is off. Please see this gallup poll result:

A Gallup poll published in February indicated a steady increase between generations of Americans who self-identify as LGBT. About 2.6 percent of Baby Boomers — those born between 1946 and 1964 — identified as LGBT compared to 10.5 percent of millennials (those born between 1981 and 1996.)

Compare that to Generation Z — those born between 1997 and 2003 — and the percentage increases to 20.8
 

Callidusblackhawk

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That population % is off. Please see this gallup poll result:

A Gallup poll published in February indicated a steady increase between generations of Americans who self-identify as LGBT. About 2.6 percent of Baby Boomers — those born between 1946 and 1964 — identified as LGBT compared to 10.5 percent of millennials (those born between 1981 and 1996.)

Compare that to Generation Z — those born between 1997 and 2003 — and the percentage increases to 20.8
They're talking about the percentage of people that are trans, not LGBTQ as a whole.
 

Hawkaholic

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You said you don’t like the pride night because you don’t support the organization. I said that pride night isn’t about an organization, it’s about the LGBTQ community. I linked the press release showing that it wasn’t in support of any specific organization.

You also said you think orgs are generally run by scummy people, so I asked which of the mentioned orgs did you think were run by scummy people.

The main point is: Pride Night isn’t about any specific organization, it’s about supporting the LGBTQ community. Being against Pride Night is being against the LGBTQ community, not any of the affiliated orgs (which you ALSO are against for seemingly no other reason than it’s gay people).
I never said I didn't like Pride night. I said you could have hundreds of jersey nights for a lot of world issues, so where do you stop? I don't support organizations of any kind, because yes, there is typically scummy people leading them, and as stated, I said I support all of the people I know who fit into the LGBQT "community", but even they don't care about waving flags and what not.

Please find where I said I'm against pride night, I'll accept your apology after you can't find it. Me not wanting to wave a flag or dress in rainbows doesn't mean I don't support it. That's the problem these days, people don't just want acceptance and tolerance, they want you to do as they say and if you don't, you're a bigot.
 
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Idionym

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I never said I didn't like Pride night. I said you could have hundreds of jerseys nights for a lot of world issues, and I don't support organizations of any kind, because yes, there is typically scummy people leading them.

Please find where I said I'm against pride night, I'll accept your apology after you can't find it.
What if you don't support the constant wars, or fighting fights that aren't ours? Then you don't want to wear the jersey and now everyone labels you as not supporting the troops. It's the same shit as the LGB crap. You can not support the organization itself, (Most organizations are led by scummy people) but you can support the people that label themselves as such. I have close friends that are gay/les and they hate the LGBQT organization and most of the stuff they try to push. I listen to them, but still support who they are as people, I just won't be waving the flag or changing my avatar to a rainbow to show it. I show them my support by being a good person to them, and that's all that you should have to do.
You are clearly saying here that you "support" LGB (nice exclusion of the T!) but don't support pride night. You start talking about "the organization itself" even when there is no organization being discussed (you proactively bring the "the organization"). In addition, you compare people not wanting to wear the military jersey to "the same shit as the LGB crap", clearly referencing that people refusing to wear the Pride jersey (LGB crap, as you put it) and thus the Pride Night discussion we're having.

And once again, you bring up organizations when there is no organization that Pride Night is about! You keep bringing up this nebulous LGBT organization when none exist in this conversation.

So, now that we established that your dislike for organizations has nothing to do with Pride Night, then what is your opposition to?
 

Hawkaholic

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You are clearly saying here that you "support" LGB (nice exclusion of the T!) but don't support pride night. You start talking about "the organization itself" even when there is no organization being discussed (you proactively bring the "the organization"). In addition, you compare people not wanting to wear the military jersey to "the same shit as the LGB crap", clearly referencing that people refusing to wear the Pride jersey (LGB crap, as you put it) and thus the Pride Night discussion we're having.

And once again, you bring up organizations when there is no organization that Pride Night is about! You keep bringing up this nebulous LGBT organization when none exist in this conversation.

So, now that we established that your dislike for organizations has nothing to do with Pride Night, then what is your opposition to?
It wasn't intentional to leave out the T Lol, kind of comical you get upset about leaving a letter out when you didn't mention the Q or the +, such a bigot.

Nice that you didn't find anything stating that I was against pride night, good job.

I didn't know I had an opposition to pride jerseys, I just don't really care that they got rid of them, along with the other special jersey nights. It's really not that big of a deal, especially when you consider they were the only major sports league to have them in the first place.

Still waiting for that apology for your lie.
 
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Idionym

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It wasn't intentional to leave out the T Lol, kind of comical you get upset about leaving a letter out when you didn't mention the Q or the +, such a bigot.

Nice that you didn't find anything stating that I was against pride night, good job.

I didn't know I had an opposition to pride jerseys, I just don't really care that they got rid of them, along with the other special jersey nights. It's really not that big of a deal, especially when you consider they were the only major sports league to have them in the first place.

Still waiting for that apology for your lie.
You do use LGBTQ in other posts, so I'll apologize for highlighting a typo and making it out that it was more than it was.

That being said, you clearly say that "LGB crap" in regards to the jersey. You also clearly insinuate that you don't support Pride Night by referencing "the organization" when there is no "THE" organization you could possibly be referencing aside from your nebulous understanding of Pride/Pride Night. If your contention is that you were just referencing something else that was random and not pertinent to the conversation at hand, then it was a really convenient non-sequitur that you can hide behind to say "well, I never said I didn't support Pride Night, I just said, completely randomly, that I don't support organizations!" It's very clear what you meant: you don't support Pride activities but you do support LGBTQ individuals. I don't know why you're playing this game and backing off what clearly your belief.
 

crazyhawk

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The NHL is a business and it's relatively big business and is within the entertainment industry.
The entertainment industry has long been known to actively promote propaganda.
First there is nothing wrong with any one persons personal choices be it sexual or what have you provided it isn't breaking any laws. So why is the NHL and other major corporations and brands out there suddenly promoting the LBGTQ community? Do you think it's actually to support these people?
I smell a rat. But there are so many rats out there these days and the noise is so loud that it's difficult to navigate through the numerous examples of the tail wagging the dog. In this case we the people are the dog and the real, BIG money is the tail. We are being played. The LBGTQ, the heterosexual, the whole ball of wax is being played. Bickering amongst ourselves as if one side has the higher moral ground. One only needs to ask ... why?
 

Kurtosis

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My understanding is that the Nights will continue but the jersey aspect is scrapped for everything.
Okay so they’re keeping the most important part, the night itself.

So I guess I have to reiterate that the NHL doing away with all the pre-game jerseys doesn’t seem like that big of a deal. No other sport does it, and I don’t think most leagues (internationally) generally do these types of nights in the first place, but could be wrong.

If they put the kibosh on having celebratory nights in general, or singled out pride nights in particular, I would understand the outrage a little more. Hell I would be right there with everyone else. But this complaint about jerseys and not recognizing/emphasizing that the celebratory nights are still going to happen just seems like throwing the baby out with bathwater.

Just my two cents.
 

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The LGBTQ community is in a battle for some pretty fundamental rights and I hope they get most of them. These jerseys are/were important for their movement because it forces awareness and presence on people who would otherwise be ignorant or apathetic to what they’re dealing with. I get it. I sympathize with it.

“You have the option to wear these jerseys but if you don’t you’re a bigot”… was personally how I interpreted the modus operandi of these controversies last year. Zero tolerance. Reimer came out and said he fully supports people’s rights to be who or what they want to be but religiously doesn’t want to wear the jersey and he was eviscerated for it. That isn’t being tolerant or arguing in good faith.

He won’t be the last player to not want to wear a specialty warmup. The NHL decided to nip it in the bud but I’m sure they’re still going to have commemorative nights promoting these people and their causes, as they should.
 

Idionym

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Okay so they’re keeping the most important part, the night itself.

So I guess I have to reiterate that the NHL doing away with all the pre-game jerseys doesn’t seem like that big of a deal. No other sport does it, and I don’t think most leagues (internationally) generally do these types of nights in the first place, but could be wrong.

If they put the kibosh on having celebratory nights in general, or singled out pride nights in particular, I would understand the outrage a little more. Hell I would be right there with everyone else. But this complaint about jerseys and not recognizing/emphasizing that the celebratory nights are still going to happen just seems like throwing the baby out with bathwater.

Just my two cents.
I think people (not you in particular) have a misunderstanding of what the "big deal" is.

I agree with you that the NHL players wearing the pride jerseys or not, in a vacuum, is not a big deal. If they never did wear them at all, no one would care. Players wearing the jerseys and players not wearing the jerseys have very little impact on the lives of queer people.

BUT

The entire point of pride is to show that it SHOULDN'T be a big deal to support the rights of LGBTQ people. It SHOULD be so unremarkable, so uncontroversial that literally no one cares that the players wear a rainbow jersey, because it's just a stupid hockey warmup jersey.

What people are unhappy about is that something so absolutely minor, so uncontroversial, BECAME controversial because people do not want to normalize the LGBTQ community and/or support their rights. Taking the jersey away is a step backwards in normalizing the LGBTQ community. You may argue that it is a minor step, and I agree(!), but that's what even more alarming about it! This wasn't the NHL asking players to swear alligiance to the gay agenda, this wasn't them forcing players into gay marriages, this was them asking them to do something as uncontrovesial, as (frankly) meaningless as wearing a warmup jersey.

If that's where people draw the line. If that's what people cannot stomach, then when major questions about the rights of LGBTQ people come up, then where do you think they'll be when push comes to shove? Where do you think they'd fall on actual meaningful issues?

If the NHL is willing to back down on this incredibly minor thing, what does that tell us about their spine when it comes to standing up to people on actual meaningful issues?

That's the issue. I'm not surprised by it because the NHL has always been the most regressive league. But if they're willing to back down on this, then their words about supporting the LGBTQ community, and marginalized communities as a whole, ring even more hollow than I thought before.

That's the issue. It's not the jersey.
 

Blackhawks

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You do use LGBTQ in other posts, so I'll apologize for highlighting a typo and making it out that it was more than it was.

That being said, you clearly say that "LGB crap" in regards to the jersey. You also clearly insinuate that you don't support Pride Night by referencing "the organization" when there is no "THE" organization you could possibly be referencing aside from your nebulous understanding of Pride/Pride Night. If your contention is that you were just referencing something else that was random and not pertinent to the conversation at hand, then it was a really convenient non-sequitur that you can hide behind to say "well, I never said I didn't support Pride Night, I just said, completely randomly, that I don't support organizations!" It's very clear what you meant: you don't support Pride activities but you do support LGBTQ individuals. I don't know why you're playing this game and backing off what clearly your belief.
It is crap because it stands for what exactly? Homosexuals have all the rights, what is this supposed LGBTQ slogan fighting for at this point? Why is it in literally every commercial, every TV show, every movie, every sporting events, etc. ? Why is it being shoved down our throats at every turn? Some of us don’t want to see it and that apparently equals being a bigot. You disagree with my way of thinking and my religious beliefs so why are you not a bigot? Not wanting it to be in our face 24/7 doesn’t equal we don’t want them to have rights, they don’t announce it we don’t care, you live your life I live mine, I treat you like a human and you do as well. End of story.
 

CallMeShaft

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It is crap because it stands for what exactly? Homosexuals have all the rights, what is this supposed LGBTQ slogan fighting for at this point? Why is it in literally every commercial, every TV show, every movie, every sporting events, etc. ? Why is it being shoved down our throats at every turn? Some of us don’t want to see it and that apparently equals being a bigot. You disagree with my way of thinking and my religious beliefs so why are you not a bigot? Not wanting it to be in our face 24/7 doesn’t equal we don’t want them to have rights, they don’t announce it we don’t care, you live your life I live mine, I treat you like a human and you do as well. End of story.
The Hawks had 81 games last season that had little to nothing to do with pride or LGBTQ.

Most current shows and movies do have some sort of representation, but I doubt most of them are beating you over the head with it.

I don't know what type of commercials you are watching, but I highly doubt all of them, or even most of them, have anything to do with gay/trans folk.

Maybe you're overreacting due to your own bigotry?
 

thedarkstark

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The Hawks had 81 games last season that had little to nothing to do with pride or LGBTQ.

Most current shows and movies do have some sort of representation, but I doubt most of them are beating you over the head with it.

I don't know what type of commercials you are watching, but I highly doubt all of them, or even most of them, have anything to do with gay/trans folk.

Maybe you're overreacting due to your own bigotry?
Somebody maybe getting targeted ads because of their browsing history...
 

Idionym

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It is crap because it stands for what exactly? Homosexuals have all the rights, what is this supposed LGBTQ slogan fighting for at this point?
They want to both systemic (there are still policies and practices that harm LGBTQ people) and social acceptance. That's what Pride is for, to normalize being part of the LGBTQ community and to show it's nothing to hide or be ashamed of.
Why is it in literally every commercial, every TV show, every movie, every sporting events, etc. ? Why is it being shoved down our throats at every turn? Some of us don’t want to see it and that apparently equals being a bigot.
It's not, and it's CERTAINLY not nearly at the same level of straight relationships in media. You're okay with straight relationships being "shoved down our throat" but not LGBTQ relationships. How does wanting to take away the same representation (and, inarguable, less representation in totality) that straight people get not bigotry? Why do straight people get to show their straightness in public but gay people have to hide it away, lest you bear of the burden of witnessing it?
You disagree with my way of thinking and my religious beliefs so why are you not a bigot?
If your religious belief is that you shouldn't be gay, that's okay. You can not be gay, no one is forcing you! If your religious belief is that LGBTQ people shouldn't be afforded the same acceptance as straight people in public spaces, then yes, I disagree with you and think you're a bigot because you're explicitly wanting different treatment for people based on a protected class (in this case, gender or sexual orientation). No one is discriminating against Christians in America, quite the opposite, and allowing other people to be treated the same way as everyone else does not mean that everyone else is now discriminated against.
Not wanting it to be in our face 24/7 doesn’t equal we don’t want them to have rights, they don’t announce it we don’t care, you live your life I live mine, I treat you like a human and you do as well. End of story.
Once again, why do they have to hide it from the world unlike straight people?
________________________________________________________________________________________
The only way people could be this ignorant to the fact that their preferred culture is so pervasive and dominant is if they are not a part of a minority group. As a Jew, I often have to interact with Christian culture in America, and I don't get the luxury of crying about it or saying how it's offensive to me, even though many Christians think that I will literally burn in hell for the rest of eternity. I move on with my day, because people are allowed to be Christian and that's okay with me, even if I disagree with them. I don't demand that they only talk about Christianity in church, I don't get upset whenever someone wears a cross in public or has other religious iconography, I don't cancel my Netflix subscription when they release a movie about a Christian couple, I just move on with my life!

To act like Pride/Pride Night is some violation shows that you're just so incredibly confined in the dominant American culture that having to see something that does not affect you in LITERALLY any way is somehow offensive to you is EVERYONE else's problem, too. Welcome to being literally everyone else who isn't a white, straight Christian.
 

Styles

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I support anyone feeling comfortable in their own skin but this backlash about it is in the complete wrong direction. It seems that getting mad that it’s not accepted is overshadowing what a pride night is all about. Prime example with Provorov. He got all the attention/press because he didn’t wear the pride jersey but the fact that Philly had a pride night was completely overshadowed because of it and wasn’t celebrated like it should be.
 

Blackhawks

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I support anyone feeling comfortable in their own skin but this backlash about it is in the complete wrong direction. It seems that getting mad that it’s not accepted is overshadowing what a pride night is all about. Prime example with Provorov. He got all the attention/press because he didn’t wear the pride jersey but the fact that Philly had a pride night was completely overshadowed because of it and wasn’t celebrated like it should be.
Yes because its more about attacking and labeling anyone who is not in 100% support as bad, bigoted, etc. than it is about standing for “rights”, otherwise they would look at the cup 90% full and not focus on the 10% empty as you pointed out.
 

thedarkstark

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Yes because its more about attacking and labeling anyone who is not in 100% support as bad, bigoted, etc. than it is about standing for “rights”, otherwise they would look at the cup 90% full and not focus on the 10% empty as you pointed out.
What does "not 100% support" mean. What exactly do you not support? That sounds a lot like "you can exist, just don't do it near me."

It has nothing to do with rights, it has to do with being treated like a human, not being treated any differently than anyone else. Not having to worry about people "not 100% supporting" them. Not having to worry about people knocking over shelves at Target, boycotting Budweiser, or refusing to wear a god damn sweater because your mere existence offends & enrages weak-minded people.

This "educational video" about is from 1955:

That was the prevailing narrative for almost 50 years. Sometime around 2000 people came to their senses and realized how insane & hateful this narrative is. Now 23 years later this stupid shit is back making the rounds because bigots feel emboldened to spew their hate openly.
 
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Chelios

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I support anyone feeling comfortable in their own skin but this backlash about it is in the complete wrong direction. It seems that getting mad that it’s not accepted is overshadowing what a pride night is all about. Prime example with Provorov. He got all the attention/press because he didn’t wear the pride jersey but the fact that Philly had a pride night was completely overshadowed because of it and wasn’t celebrated like it should be.
This is basically what the league is saying, and I am not sure how I feel about it. I mean, I understand it to some degree, and I think that this past season the talk of who wasn’t wearing a jersey certainly overshadowed the nights themselves. But at the same time, it feels like we are giving in to a very small number of players who refuse to wear the jersey instead of celebrating the vast number of them who do.
 

Castle8130

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The whole reason for this discussion is due to the fact the LGBTQ community is adding more and more layers to their ideologies. There has always been a portion of people that were not supportive of the LGBTQ, but the naysayers have increased massively after the upsurge in gender/identity policies. Keep in mind that humanity is very new to this and the LGBTQ community has never had this much influential power before. Politics in general are a disaster and no-one will ever be able to agree on anything. Since cavemen started writing on walls, humanity has had political issues
 

Malaka

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The NHL is a business and it's relatively big business and is within the entertainment industry.
The entertainment industry has long been known to actively promote propaganda.
First there is nothing wrong with any one persons personal choices be it sexual or what have you provided it isn't breaking any laws. So why is the NHL and other major corporations and brands out there suddenly promoting the LBGTQ community? Do you think it's actually to support these people?
I smell a rat. But there are so many rats out there these days and the noise is so loud that it's difficult to navigate through the numerous examples of the tail wagging the dog. In this case we the people are the dog and the real, BIG money is the tail. We are being played. The LBGTQ, the heterosexual, the whole ball of wax is being played. Bickering amongst ourselves as if one side has the higher moral ground. One only needs to ask ... why?
Yes agreed capitalism is a motivating factor for support. It’s not just to take your money though, it’s also for players like blackrock who give ESG ratings and the valuations of companies are heavily affected by that. Even if a social movement like LGBT is truly being supported internally for people to be free and do whatever the f*** they want with their lives… there are unfortunate risks for the entire business should anyone even a single person representing the company remain neutral or oppose ideology which is their right with free speech. This isn’t about “cancel culture” or whatever term people want to pigeonhole it toward but the NHL & it’s organizations fearing consequences of moral outrage. The reactionary witch hunt and spurred controversy caused this domino effect of companies going on defense. The tail is wagging the dog I think in a different way.

Think about it maybe like this, if the ottawa senators were moved or existed in salt lake in some alternate universe by some hardo mormon owners — all other factors being equal — you think them openly condemning sexual orientation wouldn’t affect the 1bn sale price Andlauer just paid? Besides the sale of a team this valuation has other downstream affects with funding/getting loans with low interest rates for projects just like the blackhawks practice facility expansion. There is probably a rabbit hole of how investment/finance companies can devalue a company based on public interpretation and take advantage of them, but whatever.

 
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What does "not 100% support" mean. What exactly do you not support? That sounds a lot like "you can exist, just don't do it near me."

It has nothing to do with rights, it has to do with being treated like a human, not being treated any differently than anyone else. Not having to worry about people "not 100% supporting" them. Not having to worry about people knocking over shelves at Target, boycotting Budweiser, or refusing to wear a god damn sweater because your mere existence offends & enrages weak-minded people.

This "educational video" about is from 1955:

That was the prevailing narrative for almost 50 years. Sometime around 2000 people came to their senses and realized how insane & hateful this narrative is. Now 23 years later this stupid shit is back making the rounds because bigots feel emboldened to spew their hate openly.

I have the poster you’re quoting on ignore so I’m missing a lot of this convo (probably for the best) but the 100% support bit always trips me up.

It feels strange wanting to clarify myself to a bunch of Internet strangers but I do post here all the time and we have some sort of online community going here so it’s probably worth the effort of explanation. I’ll concede some level of ignorance here because I’m only moderately read up on the subject. I don’t relate to any Fox News-esque conservative ideologies or fear-mongering narratives so that’s not where I’m coming from. My opinions are based mostly on whatever mainstream content flows my way usually through YouTube (those f***ing algorithms) and I try to listen to as much balanced discourse as I can. I’ve listened to/watched many many intelligent conversations from the LGTBQ community and will comfortably say I’ve got at least a base level understanding of where they are coming from.

I don’t think any LGTBQ person should be discriminated against. They should be able to walk into a movie theater, restaurant, job interview, etc…and be treated with the same warmth and respect as anyone else. From working in the Chicago service industry I interacted with many, many, many of these people and have never for a second thought of treating them differently or even harbor any negative thoughts towards them as individuals. That would be despicable and I’d be ashamed of myself for even thinking it. I’ve made close friendships with over a dozen of these people and am honored to know them.

Arguing that I need to be 100% supportive of their cause is absurd IMHO. You don’t need to agree with everything in order to be tolerant, compassionate, and empathetic. There is not a single example of relationship that any of us have with another human being where we are in unanimous agreement. There are always partitions that we have to navigate through together with love and respect.

Most people in that community grow up very troubled and spend their crucial developmental years being treated like outcasts, which is awful. Going through puberty is awkward and complicated enough for all of us as is so to add those gender/sexuality internal crises into the mix would be very difficult. I’ve listened to many interviews with these kids talking about how hard this is to deal with and it’s truthfully very sad to hear how troubled and alone they often feel.

My biggest issue with what the LGTBQ community tries to propagate is the deconstruction of gender on us all. I don’t believe it’s fair or factually accurate to tell little children they can choose if they want to be a boy or a girl. I don’t think it should be normalized in schools or in academia to all of a sudden pretend that what we’ve always known to be a man or a woman is now in-accurate. Biologically, genetically, and behaviorally I believe the LGTBQ movement has no factual basis for what they’re proclaiming and they’re instead making arguments from emotion. It’s not enough for them to come to a middle ground by saying people who just so happen to feel this confusion of identity based on gender should be treated as equally as any of us. Which I feel the overwhelming majority of us would completely agree with and fight for on their behalf. Their underlying arguments seem to be based on this notion that none of us are certain of our gender and all of us need to pretend there exists a fundamental fluidity between being a male or female. I personally vehemently disagree with that so I can never be “100%” in support of the movement.

Dismantling our concept of gender for humanity as a whole is a bridge too far. I think if someone is feeling that way and they’ve received the proper care and attention beforehand, should absolutely be able to transition into the person they feel most comfortable being. It’s their right as a human being and they’re having an authentic human experience. Anyone who wants to deny them that doesn’t understand what the Western World is all about. We just shouldn’t be toppling our concept of gender for humanity as a whole because a very small minority are having these difficulties. I don’t believe it’s fair to do that to do that to little children or encourage it to kids in middle school or highschool while they’re going through the most socially and sexually difficult periods of their lives. Learning how to date, how to talk to someone you’re romantically or sexually interested in is a very clumsy process for most of during that vulnerable time. So to add in “oh you’re feeling confused and that something isn’t right about you, maybe you’re born into the wrong gender” shouldn’t be a mainstream ideology. It should be handled delicately and when it’s appropriate.

Other than that I’m right there with all of them. Be who you want to be, love who you want. The fact that same sex marriages are at risk of being repealed is as disgusting to me as some states reverting back to the drastic restriction of abortions.

That was a long winded post. Hopefully no one reads this and thinks I’m a monster but I felt it needed to be said. Discourse and disagreement are natural things and we should be able to communicate freely as long as we’re coming from a place of love and respect.
 
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