Sportsnet: The Circus Continues in Ottawa - Hockey Central @ Noon

[solidprospect]

If Dorion wanted to look good to other GM's, he should have quit the day after our lowlife owner demanded he fire Boucher, after Dorion himself said Boucher's job was safe until the end of season. Now in the future Dorion won't be able to land a job as a GM of a house league team. What a loser..lol

Dorion did what he thought was best for the team, playing young players over vets. While Boucher is doing what's best for him and landing a job elsewhere.Vets are good and all , but usually in decline and not big pieces for the team 3-4 years from now.

Just because Dorion said he supports Boucher doesn't mean something can't happen after that to change his decision.

 

[Qward]

You guys are making this out to be like the scene from Moneyball with Billy Bean vs the GM.

We all know Melnyk orderd Dorion to fire Boucher.

 

[supsens]

You guys are making this out to be like the scene from Moneyball with Billy Bean vs the GM.

We all know Melnyk orderd Dorion to fire Boucher.

And because it was Melnyk it's bad. Am I right?

 

[GrantLemons]

And because it was Melnyk it's bad. Am I right?

Um yea? You have an org structure for a reason. If you don't trust your GM's decision on who is his coach, why the f*** do you have a GM?

 

[Qward]

And because it was Melnyk it's bad. Am I right?

If it is any owner it is bad. The hockey decisions are suppose to be left up to the GM. That is why you hired him. When the owner starts calling the shots, that is when the team starts picking Yakapovs.

 

[solidprospect]

You guys are making this out to be like the scene from Moneyball with Billy Bean vs the GM.

We all know Melnyk orderd Dorion to fire Boucher.

Are you against Boucher being fired because Melnyk ordered it or just against Boucher being fired?

 

[supsens]

If it is any owner it is bad. The hockey decisions are suppose to be left up to the GM. That is why you hired him. When the owner starts calling the shots, that is when the team starts picking Yakapovs.

I thought everyone wanted the coach gone and everyone was in agreement Dorion is a horrible GM.
But somehow even when it's right the twisting into wrong begins

 

[GrantLemons]

I thought everyone wanted the coach gone and everyone was in agreement Dorion is a horrible GM.
But somehow even when it's right the twisting into wrong begins

Boucher was gone after the season, but you don't fire him the day after you publicly endorse him for the rest of the season.

It just illustrates how f***ing broken the org is. If you don't trust your GM's choice of coach, then fire your GM.

 

[Qward]

Are you against Boucher being fired because Melnyk ordered it or just against Boucher being fired?

I am against how he was fired. Monday you say you support the coach. Friday you fire him. Even more so when you say "This is what we are looking for" in the press release. Dick move.

I was not a fan of Boucher, but he didnt deserve that.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

And because it was Melnyk it's bad. Am I right?

Usually.

 

[solidprospect]

I am against how he was fired. Monday you say you support the coach. Friday you fire him. Even more so when you say "This is what we are looking for" in the press release. Dick move.

I was not a fan of Boucher, but he didnt deserve that.

Mendes and Dorion hinted at something happening between the game against Edmonton and the next morning. Boucher was also unlikely to return after this season, was coaching to get a job next year rather than what's best for the team right now.

 

[solidprospect]

I thought everyone wanted the coach gone and everyone was in agreement Dorion is a horrible GM.
But somehow even when it's right the twisting into wrong begins

They did but blame Melnyk.

Coaches have been a revolving door in Ottawa for years now.

 

[RaMai]

Mendes and Dorion hinted at something happening between the game against Edmonton and the next morning. Boucher was also unlikely to return after this season, was coaching to get a job next year rather than what's best for the team right now.

So what, PD had no issue with how GB ran the team at the bottom of the standings for 140 games...now he ran out of patience.
PD is failing in everything he's trying to do, be it trading players or finding a coach that fits the team and where it is at.
How come PD has still a job?

 

[supsens]

I am against how he was fired. Monday you say you support the coach. Friday you fire him. Even more so when you say "This is what we are looking for" in the press release. Dick move.

I was not a fan of Boucher, but he didnt deserve that.

What if you ask him friday to play your call ups so you can see if they might be ready for next year this way you can decide how many UFA's you need to target and he shrugs it off and doesn't bother? Then does he deserve to be fired?

 

[stempniaksen]

Mendes and Dorion hinted at something happening between the game against Edmonton and the next morning. Boucher was also unlikely to return after this season, was coaching to get a job next year rather than what's best for the team right now.

What do you think Crawford is doing?

 

[solidprospect]

What do you think Crawford is doing?

Playing more players that Dorion would like to see play until the end of the year or not coaching for us.

 

[BonkTastic]

the scene from Moneyball with Billy Bean vs the GM.

Billy Beane was the GM.

You mean the scene where he fires head scout Grady Fuson, yeah?

 

[Qward]

Billy Beane was the GM.

You mean the scene where he fires head scout Grady Fuson, yeah?

The scene with the coach, where Beane was telling him who to play at first. And the coach said he needed to be able to explain his actions when he looks for a new job.

I thought the coach in baseball was called the manager.

 

[Qward]

What if you ask him friday to play your call ups so you can see if they might be ready for next year this way you can decide how many UFA's you need to target and he shrugs it off and doesn't bother? Then does he deserve to be fired?

If that was the case I would expect them to say there was a difference in philosophy and leave it at that.

 

[The Lewler]

There isn't much evidence out there to suggest Bettman can or would force an ownership change.

What Burke said was that he would intervene to bring stability. Something like pressuring for a legit hockey person hired as President, and that Melnyk would be basically told to leave them alone.

I mean it's still an insane thing for it to come to that, but Melnyk remains a member of the Board of Governors, which makes him (albeit weakly) one of Bettman's bosses.

It's conceivable that if the rest of the board is united in opposition to Melnyk for specific articulable reasons they could force something, but it's also highly unlikely they want to instill any kind of precedence for allowing the NHL commissioner to start forcing ownership changes on board members.

 

[BonkTastic]

The scene with the coach, where Beane was telling him who to play at first. And the coach said he needed to be able to explain his actions when he looks for a new job.

I thought the coach in baseball was called the manager.

Oh yeah.

The coach is the manager. The GM is the General Manager.

Ok, you have the right scene. I thought you were talking about the one where the scout revolts against Beane's sabermetrics strategy and says "Baseball people see the game the same way I do" and then gets fired for shoving Beane.

 

[GrantLemons]

There isn't much evidence out there to suggest Bettman can or would force an ownership change.

What Burke said was that he would intervene to bring stability. Something like pressuring for a legit hockey person hired as President, and that Melnyk would be basically told to leave them alone.

I mean it's still an insane thing for it to come to that, but Melnyk remains a member of the Board of Governors, which makes him (albeit weakly) one of Bettman's bosses.

It's conceivable that if the rest of the board is united in opposition to Melnyk for specific articulable reasons they could force something, but it's also highly unlikely they want to instill any kind of precedence for allowing the NHL commissioner to start forcing ownership changes on board members.

I don't even think Gary would have to force anything. If Eugene doesn't have the cash to facilitate a new arena deal, then what the heck is he doing here? If Gary has groups in Ottawa waiting very patiently, and knows they have the wherewithal to do the arena deal, is he supposed to just ignore that?

No one would be trying to force Eugene out, but if Eugene is not meeting the standards set out by the NHL with regards to being an NHL owner, then I'm sure that's a chat he and Gary are going to have.

It's not he's under fire for no reason. He's quite literally standing in the way of a new arena deal, which the league would stand to benefit from greatly. Financially, and PR wise.

I'm not saying forcing him out will/should happen, but I'm just not willing to speculate too heavily how the NHL and BoG will respond to this, because it feels sort of like uncharted territory. I mean, if you need a new arena, and you can't make it happen, but another local group can, isn't it time to shit or get off the pot?

 

[hawthy]

The five-words that follow “Sportsnet” in the thread title do not identify the thread as hockey-related, per se. Awesome lol.

 

[The Lewler]

I don't even think Gary would have to force anything. If Eugene doesn't have the cash to facilitate a new arena deal, then what the heck is he doing here? If Gary has groups in Ottawa waiting very patiently, and knows they have the wherewithal to do the arena deal, is he supposed to just ignore that?

No one would be trying to force Eugene out, but if Eugene is not meeting the standards set out by the NHL with regards to being an NHL owner, then I'm sure that's a chat he and Gary are going to have.

It's not he's under fire for no reason. He's quite literally standing in the way of a new arena deal, which the league would stand to benefit from greatly. Financially, and PR wise.

I'm not saying forcing him out will/should happen, but I'm just not willing to speculate too heavily how the NHL and BoG will respond to this, because it feels sort of like uncharted territory. I mean, if you need a new arena, and you can't make it happen, but another local group can, isn't it time to **** or get off the pot?

Sure but the "standards" set out by the NHL are defined. They are closely analyzed and supported legally.

If "scuttling a new arena" or 'economic long term damage' isn't among the reasons the NHL can take actions on ownership, then what happens? Nothing, except a myriad of other ways the NHL can put pressure on Melnyk, like the President issue, like cap issues etc.

He's under fire for tons of legitimate reasons. I agree with you that we've never seen a scenario with this type of ownership failing.

But the owner isn't / hasn't been convicted of anything.

The owner isn't/hasn't had financial issues in terms of meeting payroll.

He has an arena. If he keeps paying the bills, what can they do?

I hope they can do something/. I'm asking what people smarter than me think they can do?

 

[GrantLemons]

Sure but the "standards" set out by the NHL are defined. They are closely analyzed and supported legally.

If "scuttling a new arena" or 'economic long term damage' isn't among the reasons the NHL can take actions on ownership, then what happens? Nothing, except a myriad of other ways the NHL can put pressure on Melnyk, like the President issue, like cap issues etc.

He's under fire for tons of legitimate reasons. I agree with you that we've never seen a scenario with this type of ownership failing.

But the owner isn't / hasn't been convicted of anything.

The owner isn't/hasn't had financial issues in terms of meeting payroll.

He has an arena. If he keeps paying the bills, what can they do?

I hope they can do something/. I'm asking what people smarter than me think they can do?

Agree with your post, but there were reports the NHL was propping them up payroll wise last season I think? So that may not be entirely true.

I think we just have to hope Gary or the BoG is pissed off enough at the whole situation to really put a fire under him.

He may have an arena, but Gary has also said on record that he thinks Ottawa needs a new one (centrally located) to be viable long term. So wtf does that mean?