The Big Moose

[The Abusement Park]

Here’s what doesn’t make sense to me.

Why is Rantanen taking more heat than MacKinnon this season?

MacKinnon is the franchise player and viewed by many as a top-2 player in the world. He hasn’t looked like anything close to that.

Rantanen in a full season is a 80-90 point guy. That’s what he is. I’m not sure why the expectations for him are to be more than that, especially in a low scoring division.

Maybe it’s because of how these two guys are paid right now, I don’t know. Perhaps it changes when MacKinnon gets his extension and pay increase.

I think the issue is that Rants consistency hasn’t been great since he signed the big contract. He’s still been very good but the expectations increase when you sign a big contract and his biggest issue has been consistency.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Here’s what doesn’t make sense to me.

Why is Rantanen taking more heat than MacKinnon this season?

MacKinnon is the franchise player and viewed by many as a top-2 player in the world. He hasn’t looked like anything close to that.

Rantanen in a full season is a 80-90 point guy. That’s what he is. I’m not sure why the expectations for him are to be more than that, especially in a low scoring division.

Maybe it’s because of how these two guys are paid right now, I don’t know. Perhaps it changes when MacKinnon gets his extension and pay increase.

Well, I did edit my post to say the entire Top line has been disappointing.

But, I think Mack has been a lot better defensively for one... And second, Mack is still shooting the puck a crap tonne. He has just gotten incredibly unlucky that he only has 5 goals this year. Besides.rhenfavt he is shooting at a ridiculously low 6% shooting %, he's also hit the post a very high amount, they don't even count as shots on goal.


IMO Mack should have like 10 goals right now if things were to balance out and be leading the team in points by a fair amount.


But ya I think both Mack and Mikko have been underwhelming. Disappointing is probably not fair to them, but not quite meeting expectations.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think the issue is that Rants consistency hasn’t been great since he signed the big contract. He’s still been very good but the expectations increase when you sign a big contract and his biggest issue has been consistency.

I didn’t think he was very good relative to expectations last season. This year, I think he’s played really well. The battle is there and he’s been a goal scoring machine.

I guess for me, my expectations for a player are not strictly driven through the contract.

Like, Makar for instance. Now that I’ve seen what he can do in the league, I expect to see a top-10 NHL defenceman. It doesn’t matter what his salary is.

MacKinnon has proven to be a top-5 player in the game, that’s what I expect from him. When he declines with age proves to be a lesser player, my expectations will in-turn come down.

 

[Mackinnonen]

This board is so sour on Rantanen despite him being the best forward this year. I dont get it. Are people really forgetting how good he was to start the year? Yeah he's had consistency issues but there was the break which seemed to cause that. He's been much bettter this year than last season imo. Still not 2018 level but i believe in him. Rants is not perfect but still when he's cold he isn't some 2 mil player. He's still a ppg player with lethal finishing while slumping.

 

[BleedWell]

Rantanen-12 goals
Mackinnon-5 goals

Who's the disappointment?

"but you see Mack's defensive game is rather solid blaahblaahzzzzzzzz.... "

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Before the team's covid break Mikko was our best forward and it wasn't that close. The production was there offensively, he was great on the forecheck and he was surprisingly great defensively as well. Since the break not so much though and Mack has been better/more consistent as far as effort is concerned. Overall Mikko has had a better year than last year due to his improved defensive play.

 

[Cake Malar]

So, does Mikko stay at center once Mac is back? I think the line with Landy, Nuke, and him has been pretty effective the past couple of games. And when Mac comes back it could open more up for that line. Also it could solve our C depth issues.

For people with a better eye for this than me - has there been anything specifically with Mikko's play, positioning, etc. that may be a concern long term with him playing C?

 

[nightonthesun]

He's scoring goals and that's great. Comparing 12 goals to 5 and laughing off everyone else's comments is pretty dopey.

 

[avsfan09]

He's scoring goals and that's great. Comparing 12 goals to 5 and laughing off everyone else's comments is pretty dopey.

It is. Luckily we have a pretty good group here and only a few outliers that troll or are condescending.

 

[Shinjuku Calling]

Mikko is one of the only players the Avs have had in a decade that I like.

 

[TomppaKoo]

To my eye Mikko's skating has been much better this year than last year. He has been flying out there. Also, he's been very nasty in many games, at least occasionally, using his big body in corners, giving nasty cross checks and battling for the puck. Especially when the team is behind.
What has been puzzling to me is that he has been used quite a bit as a screening guy in front of the net, especially when MacK is on the ice. He is a big guy and has good hand-eye coordination for deflections, but in my opinion he is a bit wasted in that kind of role. The experiment in center is very interesting and if he can learn to take that role effectively it will be a big moose like asset for Avalanche. He is already good in face offs, for example, even not having done them too much during his career.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

It is. Luckily we have a pretty good group here and only a few outliers that troll or are condescending.

Even the trolls around these parts post at least somewhat seriously.

 

[henchman21]

Mikko is one of the only players the Avs have had in a decade that I like.

Nate Guenin is another.

 

[cinchronicity]

So, does Mikko stay at center once Mac is back? I think the line with Landy, Nuke, and him has been pretty effective the past couple of games. And when Mac comes back it could open more up for that line. Also it could solve our C depth issues.

For people with a better eye for this than me - has there been anything specifically with Mikko's play, positioning, etc. that may be a concern long term with him playing C?

Just my opinion: Mikko is putting in a serious effort to back check and get into the D Zone. He seemed winded last game or two. Perhaps that is one obstacle. That said, either Mikko or Landy could be an effective C. By their own words, they have been splitting the duties. Landy does a whole lot of centerman stuff anyway. Furthermore, in the current Avs system, a classic center is not needed as much. As Byram, Makar and MacDonald have established, virtually anyone has the greenlight to jump into the O Zone with the puck. There is surely magic to 9296, but there is also a gaping hole at 3C which could be solved by moving Landy or Mikko to C. It could even be Landy as 3C on a line which gets more than a typical 3rd line.

Mac >> Kadri >> Landy >> Belle for now

Mac >> Kadri >> Landy >> Newhook next year

Mac >> Newhook >> Landy >> Jost ( possibly Bowers?) two years down the line

There are a number of guys who might be willing to take a financial haircut, especially if we can win the cup this year or next. No GM in their right mind will offer Calvert term. Would he chase money on Detroit over a cup here? Maybe. Additionally, Kadri will be in a tough place and might want to look at a 1 or 2 year bridge. He is not getting any younger and his age will almost certainly prevent him from cashing in on both salary and term. But if those two guys stick around at team friendly numbers, and prospects like Kaut / Newhook / Bowers / Ranta actually contribute according to expectations, the team as currently constructed might not be all that bad.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I'd love to see them continue trying Mikko at Center, but I don't think Bednar will do it.


I'd like to see that Landy/Mikko/Nuke line stay together.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

I think my memory serves me well, but wasn't Landy the top face off taker percentage wise in the West? I think kadri was in the top ten too. What a turnaround from never being able to win a draw.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I've been down right guilty of under-valuing Rants. I think a large part of that is from him and MacKinnon playing together and it's so easy to get mesmerized by Nate. I want to give Rants his props, the dude has been much better lately than I remember him being normally and that is a great thing.

I will say this though, he still makes a lot of money for a guy not driving his own line. Given the 1st lines struggles this season, I really hope Bednar starts tinkering with splitting them up at times more often to try and get different looks. I still love the chemistry Calver flashed with Nate. I'd love to see more Kadri and Rants together. Also, I think a Landy-Jost-Nichuskin third line would be awesome to see from time to time.

 

[Pokecheque]

Rants continues to be one of my favorite--if not my VERY favorite--player of the current iteration of Avs. But never have I seen a player where I swear by watching him had a pretty awful game and yet came away scoring two goals.

 

[AvsMakar08]

Rantanen-12 goals
Mackinnon-5 goals

Who's the disappointment?

"but you see Mack's defensive game is rather solid blaahblaahzzzzzzzz.... "

Bleedwell, you are a Kakko Fan? I am glad that we got Byram. I remember all the drama back then but we got Byram. He could reach Makar level when he is Makar age.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Rantanen-12 goals
Mackinnon-5 goals

Who's the disappointment?

"but you see Mack's defensive game is rather solid blaahblaahzzzzzzzz.... "

Kaapo Kakko.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Rants continues to be one of my favorite--if not my VERY favorite--player of the current iteration of Avs. But never have I seen a player where I swear by watching him had a pretty awful game and yet came away scoring two goals.

He was this was all playoffs. Didnt play well yet came away with 2-3 points every night lol. Earlier this season he was playing well and earning his points and then covid stoppage...

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

He was this was all playoffs. Didnt play well yet came away with 2-3 points every night lol. Earlier this season he was playing well and earning his points and then covid stoppage...

If he’s relied upon to be an offensive producer and that’s what he does, then he is playing well.

If he’s not ‘earning’ his points how are other players on the team earning their production?

Look at some of the guys that play with McDavid? Do they produce like Rantanen? And MacKinnon isn’t even on McDavid’s level.

MacKinnon is great, obviously, but the thought that Rantanen didn’t earn his points in the playoffs is so false.

For instance, this is an outstanding play by MacK, but most players can’t one-time a puck out of mid-air and go bar-down. That’s not exactly normal lol.



Why is it so hard to give Rantanen any credit?

 

[Mackinnonen]

If he’s relied upon to be an offensive producer and that’s what he does, then he is playing well.

If he’s not ‘earning’ his points how are other players on the team earning their production?

Look at some of the guys that play with McDavid? Do they produce like Rantanen? And MacKinnon isn’t even on McDavid’s level.

MacKinnon is great, obviously, but the thought that Rantanen didn’t earn his points in the playoffs is so false.

For instance, this is an outstanding play by MacK, but most players can’t one-time a puck out of mid-air and go bar-down. That’s not exactly normal lol.



Why is it so hard to give Rantanen any credit?

I think Mikko is so talented that even when he's not playing to his potential, he's still a top tier ppg offensive player. When Mikko is on his game he's dominant all over the ice Malkin like. Last year he was not moving his feet as much but he had injury issues. This year he has been the avs mvp maybe with Girard and deserves a lot of credit.

 

[Pokecheque]

There are games where it is impossible to knock him off the puck and he’s channeling prime-era Marian Hossa. Bowling over opponents, skating with purpose, and just taking over the game every time the puck lands on his stick.

Then there are games where he falls over repeatedly and oftentimes when no one’s touching him, he struggles to hold onto the puck, and takes goddamned forever to shoot it.

In both instances he’s still an impactful player so I really shouldn’t complain, but I really enjoy seeing that other guy a lot more.

 

[LOFIN]

Rantanen before his GF was in Denver: 1.10 PPG
Rantanen after his GF arrived in Denver: 1.78 PPG


Also, this deserves to be posted here as well