OT: The Avalounge's Official Game of Thrones Thread WARNING SPOILERS INSIDE

[The Kingslayer]

Someone pointed out the concept of plotter vs. pantsers and it's utterly fascinating. Plotters make a very organized outline of their tale before diving in, they know the plan and they know how it ends. Martin is a total "Pantser" which is derived from "By the seat of his Pants," in that he has never had a concrete plot of ASOIAF laid out. He created these characters and their stories and fleshed them out, and they got so big he had to add more books, more storylines, almost to the point where they got a little out of hand and he had to course-correct a few times to try and steer things back a little. The showrunners switched gears once the material from the books ran out and became pure Plotters. They had an end in mind (which I'm told had input from Martin himself) and have shaped the last two seasons to that end, which has led to some very quick and sometimes very abrupt plot points. But I'm still very enthralled and entertained by the spectacle of it all, simply because I don't feel this show is quite as organized as a lot of people believe it to be, even in the early goings.

Im entertained aswell and to me that matters a whole lot more than a stupid Starbucks cup that appeared for a few seconds.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I can't imagine the showrunners would pull a fast one on us of that magnitude, they had the weight of an entire castle dumped on them, doubt they managed to survive.

It would be too silly.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

All good things must burn. Nearly every top series or film with multiple sequels/seasons will eventually turn to crap, it is known. Star Wars, Star Trek, GoT, LOTR, Alien, Terminator etc. The list is endless really.

 

[Ivan13]

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

If Game of Thrones (and A Song of Ice and Fire) were going to give you the standard fantasy epic, Robb Stark would have arrived in time to save his father, every single member of the Stark clan would have reunited to take back Winterfell from the Boltons, the Red Viper would have emerged victorious, Theon never would have betrayed his adoptive family, and sniveling weasels like Littlefinger would have been dispatched a hell of a lot sooner. But that's not what we're getting. GRRM has said on many occasions he wanted to take your expectations and turn them on its ear. And he did just that. So while there is a very strong argument that the showrunners' headlong rush to reach an epic ending has not been executed well, it is at least in line thematically with GRRM's aim with his tales.

As someone else on Twitter pointed out, the Cleganebowl was almost pathetic, because that's exactly what it was--two broken and scarred men selfishly fighting to the death, knowing there really wasn't any real victor no matter what the outcome. The Hound even laughs, acknowledging the pointlessness of it all. The one lasting legacy he left was warning Arya not to become him.

I kinda hoped Yara or Theon would have had a chance to drive an axe right through Euron's head, but I like the way Theon went out, and Euron's end, though also rather anti-climactic, kinda made sense. And yes, it makes sense Jaime, even with one hand could take a Euron who had just emerged from the sea and was completely exhausted after having to swim to shore. That wasn't some gallant swordfight, it was a brawl, and Jaime even used his metal prosthetic as a weapon when he bashed in Euron's throat with it.

As for Dany, the show gave us exactly what we all wanted...or what we THOUGHT we wanted. Cersei dying at the hands of Daenerys Targaryen. But they did it in a way that horrified us, and really, the concept is brilliant even if the execution wasn't. Dany really isn't that much better than Cersei or Robert, or even Joffrey. She said she wants to "break the wheel" but that's a load of bull****, she just wants the wheel to stop at her. There was nothing she really offered that her predecessors didn't, except a very fiery form of execution for any who dare cross her. Quite fitting that she ended up igniting all the stores of Wildfire her father had hidden away in parts of King's Landing. Again, her fall from grace was abrupt, but it wasn't from out of nowhere. She made a fatal mistake making the big cross from Essos. She could have ruled over that entire continent for the rest of her life and been happy. She may technically be from Westeros, but she's just as foreign to the people there as the Dothraki.

In the end, the only person in Westeros still alive with even a lick of common sense is the woman who started out as a superficial, preening little girl trying to win the favor of a handsome prince and/or knight, neither of whom wanted anything to do with her.

I did really like the fact that they somehow did the impossible, gave us Cersei and Jaime's end in a way that made them sympathetic, even after all the horrid, awful things those two horrid, awful people had done. Kudos to both actors for giving us that.

I'm not asking for that. I'm just asking for Cersi not to die from Crumble. It was boring. Game of Thrones gave us mostly happy endings.

It's pretty evident that George wasn't apart of this as much as he was earlier in the show. He's even on record saying he wouldn't change an ending just because people guessed it. I look forward to how the books end.

I said the battle between the hound and the mountain was bad.

The concept was boring. Cersi dying from rock crumble wasn't satisfying. Like someone posted on twitter.. 1 million an episode to look out a window. I said, i like how Jaimie and Cersi got back together, Breanna couldn't break Jaimies love for his sister. It would've been nice to see more of a reason why he left Breanne. But the show ended early in general.

One of the rare instances where a show should've kept on going.

They both did a good job. Lena Headey did an amazing job.

My favorite acting performances from the show No order:
Peter Dinklage
Leana Headey
Jack Gleeson

I was excited to see what Jack was going to do with his career. Sad he took a break. Hope he comes back, dude was amazing.

 

[Ivan13]

I'm not asking for that. I'm just asking for Cersi not to die from Crumble. It was boring. Game of Thrones gave us mostly happy endings.

It's pretty evident that George wasn't apart of this as much as he was earlier in the show. He's even on record saying he wouldn't change an ending just because people guessed it. I look forward to how the books end.

I said the battle between the hound and the mountain was bad.

The concept was boring. Cersi dying from rock crumble wasn't satisfying. Like someone posted on twitter.. 1 million an episode to look out a window. I said, i like how Jaimie and Cersi got back together, Breanna couldn't break Jaimies love for his sister. It would've been nice to see more of a reason why he left Breanne. But the show ended early in general.

One of the rare instances where a show should've kept on going.

They both did a good job. Lena Headey did an amazing job.

My favorite acting performances from the show No order:
Peter Dinklage
Leana Headey
Jack Gleeson

I was excited to see what Jack was going to do with his career. Sad he took a break. Hope he comes back, dude was amazing.

Wut?

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I guess earlier you could justify those somehow. Not this time.

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

Wut?

All the happy endings:

Starks are winning thus far
Jon came back to life
Cersei and Jaime died
Arya's ending in the story thus far
Tyrion is the only Lannister living out of the core Lannister family
Sansa's ending in the story thus far
killing the Knight King
The hound killed his brother

Bad endings (bad as in fatalities not if I like it or not)
Dany went Mad and burnt a few hundred thousand people (made up number)
Dany lost 2 children and her 2 best friends




There's been way more good than bad for the ending of this show so far. There was how many villains at the start and we are left with one now. Pretty "happy" ending thus far.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

I just hope the show ends on a Red Wedding type twist. Not sure if the writers are capable of that but fingers crossed.

 

[RockLobster]

All the happy endings:

Starks are winning thus far
Jon came back to life
Cersei and Jaime died
Arya's ending in the story thus far
Tyrion is the only Lannister living out of the core Lannister family
Sansa's ending in the story thus far
killing the Knight King
The hound killed his brother

Bad endings (bad as in fatalities not if I like it or not)
Dany went Mad and burnt a few hundred thousand people (made up number)
Dany lost 2 children and her 2 best friends




There's been way more good than bad for the ending of this show so far. There was how many villains at the start and we are left with one now. Pretty "happy" ending thus far.

Uhh....

Game of Thrones has traditionally not partaken in "happy endings", Martin himself even said that he wasn't wanting to write using that typical storytelling arc. Of course that doesn't mean that good things cannot happen to characters we like/love. More that we're not likely to get a stereotypical "Good guy/girl saves the day and everyone lives happily ever after!" type ending.

I don't personally see it being strictly "good endings" and "bad endings", just as there mostly isn't a strict black & white/good & bad when it comes to how things have played out.

Take Dany's arc, for instance. She's exhibited the signs that she would be what we saw in the last episode all through the series, but they were usually against abhorrent people so we didn't pay much mind to them. As an audience we seemed to categorize it as "Dany's brother/The Masters are bad, and Dany hurt them so she's good!" when in reality she was quite morally gray if not outright bad.

If the story was meant to ultimately be a good ending, then the only bad thing that really would have happened would have been Ned being killed, since he kickstarts the whole story. The Red Wedding would not have needed to happen; Jon being betrayed and murdered by his Night's Watch Brothers would not have needed to happen; countless deaths of characters we ultimately rooted for would not have needed to happen; Ramsay and his bullshit would not have needed to happen; and so on and so forth.

The only TRUE "good guys" I personally identify as such in this entire series are Ned Stark and Jon Snow. Everyone else, even if they are trying to help the side with which we identify as "good", have exhibited gray behavior. And I think that's the point of the whole story, that the world is overrun with people who are largely gray and will advance a cause if it is to their ultimate benefit and the world is too short on people who are inherently good like Ned Stark and Jon Snow.

 

[Ararana]

All the happy endings:

Starks are winning thus far
Jon came back to life
Cersei and Jaime died
Arya's ending in the story thus far
Tyrion is the only Lannister living out of the core Lannister family
Sansa's ending in the story thus far
killing the Knight King
The hound killed his brother

Bad endings (bad as in fatalities not if I like it or not)
Dany went Mad and burnt a few hundred thousand people (made up number)
Dany lost 2 children and her 2 best friends




There's been way more good than bad for the ending of this show so far. There was how many villains at the start and we are left with one now. Pretty "happy" ending thus far.

I agree with you this show (and books) are overrated for how many storylines end badly, but surely you can come up with more bad endings than that. I'd say it's about 50/50.

Some have horrible endings (Robb) and some are immune to death apparently (Sam, Arya).

 

[Ivan13]

All the happy endings:

Starks are winning thus far
Jon came back to life
Cersei and Jaime died
Arya's ending in the story thus far
Tyrion is the only Lannister living out of the core Lannister family
Sansa's ending in the story thus far
killing the Knight King
The hound killed his brother

Bad endings (bad as in fatalities not if I like it or not)
Dany went Mad and burnt a few hundred thousand people (made up number)
Dany lost 2 children and her 2 best friends




There's been way more good than bad for the ending of this show so far. There was how many villains at the start and we are left with one now. Pretty "happy" ending thus far.

Yeah, Starks are doing brilliantly, most of them brutally murdered or scarred beyond belief. Hound also killed himself, I have no idea how that is a happy ending, it is basically the epitome of a senseless act that leads to nothing but death for him and misery to those around him. Jamie dying is not a happy ending. Tyrion’s story sure as f*** isn’t a happy one.

 

[ASmileyFace]

The only person who is probably happy right now is Yara sitting pretty on the Iron Islands. Didn't fight the dead, Uncle and his entire fleet are dead, didn't have to join in the fight at kings landing, now has complete control over the Iron Islands... but her brother did die too, so that's sad I guess.

 

[RockLobster]

Oh, so we can't link to Reddit on here?

Just click the link, it's good for a laugh...

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm not asking for that. I'm just asking for Cersi not to die from Crumble. It was boring. Game of Thrones gave us mostly happy endings.

It's pretty evident that George wasn't apart of this as much as he was earlier in the show. He's even on record saying he wouldn't change an ending just because people guessed it. I look forward to how the books end.

I said the battle between the hound and the mountain was bad.

The concept was boring. Cersi dying from rock crumble wasn't satisfying. Like someone posted on twitter.. 1 million an episode to look out a window. I said, i like how Jaimie and Cersi got back together, Breanna couldn't break Jaimies love for his sister. It would've been nice to see more of a reason why he left Breanne. But the show ended early in general.

One of the rare instances where a show should've kept on going.

They both did a good job. Lena Headey did an amazing job.

My favorite acting performances from the show No order:
Peter Dinklage
Leana Headey
Jack Gleeson

I was excited to see what Jack was going to do with his career. Sad he took a break. Hope he comes back, dude was amazing.

Even sitting at a window Lena Headey knocked that performance out of the park. Went from smug satisfaction to desperation to abject horror as she saw the city burn. She's still a horribly underrated actress.

I liked seeing her final fate the way it was precisely because there was no satisfaction to draw from it. For all her regal stature, her unending pride, she was left running scared and stripped of all dignity, desperately looking for one person, and that person came. We actually felt bad for her despite all the monstrous, horrible things she's done.

Come to think of it, have any villains on the show really gotten a "satisfying" death? The only one that came close IMO is Ramsay Bolton, and that one was pretty sadistic. I wouldn't say Joffrey's was, even though it was by all accounts a very painful death, because right away Tyrion got the blame.

 

[Foppberg]

The only person who is probably happy right now is Yara sitting pretty on the Iron Islands. Didn't fight the dead, Uncle and his entire fleet are dead, didn't have to join in the fight at kings landing, now has complete control over the Iron Islands... but her brother did die too, so that's sad I guess.

Tormund too. Headed back home with a direwolf, and Jamie is outta the picture so maybe his dream of giant babies with Brienne will come true one day.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Even sitting at a window Lena Headey knocked that performance out of the park. Went from smug satisfaction to desperation to abject horror as she saw the city burn. She's still a horribly underrated actress.

I liked seeing her final fate the way it was precisely because there was no satisfaction to draw from it. For all her regal stature, her unending pride, she was left running scared and stripped of all dignity, desperately looking for one person, and that person came. We actually felt bad for her despite all the monstrous, horrible things she's done.

Come to think of it, have any villains on the show really gotten a "satisfying" death? The only one that came close IMO is Ramsay Bolton, and that one was pretty sadistic. I wouldn't say Joffrey's was, even though it was by all accounts a very painful death, because right away Tyrion got the blame.

Maybe Viserys? He got his crown of gold, after all.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Bran "the prophet vegetable who never tells anyone anything" winning the throne sounds so absurd that it has to be true with these writers.

Hilarious how the cast have reacted, they all know its shit and don't even try to hide it.

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Soon this nightmare will be over.

 

[ASmileyFace]

Oh, so we can't link to Reddit on here?

Just click the link, it's good for a laugh...

How do I make this stop auto playing every time I open this thread?

 

[RockLobster]

How do I make this stop auto playing every time I open this thread?

It's autoplaying? It doesn't even show up in my browser at all

I can remove the link and just leave it as a copy/paste?

 

[ASmileyFace]

It's autoplaying? It doesn't even show up in my browser at all

I can remove the link and just leave it as a copy/paste?

Holy shit. Now it double auto plays since I quoted it. What the hell

EDIT: I muted it and it isn't autoplaying noise anymore. Thank god.

 

[Ararana]

Bran "the prophet vegetable who never tells anyone anything" winning the throne sounds so absurd that it has to be true with these writers.

Hilarious how the cast have reacted, they all know its **** and don't even try to hide it.

You do know the main plot points in the show are still from GRRM right? He told them how the series ends. It's all the filler that's coming from the producers.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

SPOILER

The Children of the Corn Forest show up at the end, and turn Jon Snow into the new Night King.
Then they make Dany the Night Queen.

 

[ASmileyFace]

I wouldn't even be surprised @Bubba Thudd. I'm on team "anyone but Bran" right now.