OT: The Avalounge (mod warning - No Politics)

[S E P H]

All good. Unluckily for her the scam college she went to told her private loans were the best course of action and coming from a low-income household her parents unfortunately didn't know any better and didn't bother to do the research. She was strapped with two private loans and one federal, but the amount in federal pales in comparison. Pretty crazy how an entire generation has been f***ed over by predatory student loans and yet there are still people pissing and moaning about the prospect of debt forgiveness.

She did get almost half off from that mobster private loan, so that's beautiful news. I hope she majored in something worth-will to be able to be able to pay that sucker off. I got lucky personally, I was watching a random business channel when I was waiting for my friend to get off of work and the bloke said that he doesn't understand why more people don't take federal loans for higher education than privatised ones. Now I am not one to trust some rando from one Bloomberg/Fox Business segment, but he seemed he knew what he was talking about and went into that direction after some research.

 

[Ceremony]

Meh, we are probably broaching "political talk" but you do realize there is a difference between the US having a compulsory K-12 education program and adults electing to go to college, right? Since the US decided K-12 education was compulsory, the US has to pay for it. College is not compulsory.

Yes. I live in a country where higher education is paid for. This is good, and requiring people to have tens of thousands (or more) of debt because they wanted to be educated and have the possibility of a good career which they were constantly funnelled into when they were growing up is bad. This isn't a political perspective and it's extremely reductive and pointless to suggest people without student loan debt should or will be directly responsible for excusing it, or politicising that possibility (although I realise America is f***ed and this last part isn't really possible).

 

[Ceremony]

And on the subject of government vs. private loans, I probably shouldn't be surprised that there's an American way of privatising this but here we are.

 

[S E P H]

This is good, and requiring people to have tens of thousands (or more) of debt because they wanted to be educated and have the possibility of a good career which they were constantly funnelled into when they were growing up is bad

I think it depends on the major. If you go out and get a STEM degree independent of what that may be, you don't really have any problem paying off student loans because that degree will probably bring in a good income. I don't think anybody getting a BA in sociology is a good career choice regardless of having or not having student loans, except if you want to get a PhD in that subject. I consider it more predatory for universities - and this happens practically everywhere in the USA - to charge tuition on classes for higher-paid degrees like engineering or sciences' than something like an art degree or anything equivalent.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Education is the US is kinda messed up right now. Our K-12 programs are falling behind other countries in sciences and math and everything involved in education gets politicized out the wazoo. I'm certainly not suggesting that I have the answers...I don't.

I do enjoy these discussions though as I try to learn through them.

 

[The Merchant]

I don't care if I get an infraction for this. f*** the Supreme Court and f*** the party they currently represent.

 

[henchman21]

I’d pay more taxes for education if it was earmarked. Even as a person with no kids (and won’t have)… it just benefits society a ton.

I broke down and grabbed an Apple Watch (never been a watch person)… any must have apps?

 

[Ceremony]

Watching this and hearing keeeeeeep hoooldiing on in my head

 

[JWK]

I’d pay more taxes for education if it was earmarked. Even as a person with no kids (and won’t have)… it just benefits society a ton.

I broke down and grabbed an Apple Watch (never been a watch person)… any must have apps?

Welcome to the club

Autosleep
Water reminder

 

[Snow Arc]

I present! to you, Patron, the mine sniffing dog. Awarded a medal for saving lives!

 

[Ceremony]

 

[RockLobster]

View attachment 545905

Didn't know you were a fan, Ceremony.

What do you think if the new album? My vinyl with the signed insert arrived 2 days ago. Very excited to get it framed and added to the wall

 

[Ceremony]

Didn't know you were a fan, Ceremony.

What do you think if the new album? My vinyl with the signed insert arrived 2 days ago. Very excited to get it framed and added to the wall

I listened to it for the first time yesterday and didn't think much of it. I've had it on while I'm trying to actually buy this ticket so I'm not really paying attention since Ticketmaster keep telling me they're unable to process my request. I don't know how any band could seriously make a 40 minute 7 song album split up into multiple parts the way this one is. Unlike pretty much every album before it nothing stands out as something I can latch on to and listen to on its own, so I'll need a few more goes to see if that's the case. I think it's probably a bad sign that the song that stands out to me so far is the opener and it's because I listen to it and keep expecting something to happen, and it doesn't.

Your vinyl probably cost more than this ticket of mine will if I ever get it. Hopefully it's not as complex as the CD packaging or you'll need some kind of frame.

 

[RockLobster]

I listened to it for the first time yesterday and didn't think much of it. I've had it on while I'm trying to actually buy this ticket so I'm not really paying attention since Ticketmaster keep telling me they're unable to process my request. I don't know how any band could seriously make a 40 minute 7 song album split up into multiple parts the way this one is. Unlike pretty much every album before it nothing stands out as something I can latch on to and listen to on its own, so I'll need a few more goes to see if that's the case. I think it's probably a bad sign that the song that stands out to me so far is the opener and it's because I listen to it and keep expecting something to happen, and it doesn't.

Your vinyl probably cost more than this ticket of mine will if I ever get it. Hopefully it's not as complex as the CD packaging or you'll need some kind of frame.

I thought it was better than Everything Now and I enjoyed that on too. However, to me, EN's strengths were the fact that it would have made a much better EP if they had just released these songs:

-Everything Now
-Signs of Life
-Creature Comfort
-Electric Blue
-Put Your Money On Me
-We Don't Deserve Love

I told someone the other day that EN's highs were VERY high, but its lows were shockingly bad; WE's highs don't quite reach EN's (but I'd argue "Unconditional I (Lookout Kid)" is one of their best songs ever written...but that might be because it evokes strong emotions in me about my son Harrison); however WE's lows are nowhere near EN's. It's a much more complete record from start to finish.

 

[Ceremony]

Arcade Fire ticket buying update: After their last two albums based heavily around themes such as humanity's reliance on the internet, on electronic communication and gratification, on a desire to withdraw from that, I... I can't get a physical ticket to see them. I can't even print out a thing from Ticketmaster to see them, I need to have a smartphone to see the ticket on that. That's literally the only option.

Technology is bad and should go away.

 

[Ceremony]

I thought it was better than Everything Now and I enjoyed that on too. However, to me, EN's strengths were the fact that it would have made a much better EP if they had just released these songs:

-Everything Now
-Signs of Life
-Creature Comfort
-Electric Blue
-Put Your Money On Me
-We Don't Deserve Love

I told someone the other day that EN's highs were VERY high, but its lows were shockingly bad; WE's highs don't quite reach EN's (but I'd argue "Unconditional I (Lookout Kid)" is one of their best songs ever written...but that might be because it evokes strong emotions in me about my son Harrison); however WE's lows are nowhere near EN's. It's a much more complete record from start to finish.

I have a theory - which I've cooked up in the past five minutes - that bands who have surprising or proportionally larger than normal success with a concept album never really recover from it. American Idiot was a massive departure structurally from any Green Day album before it. It was massive and career defining. They tried the same thing five years later and it was a bloated, tuneless mess.

There's not as much of a back catalogue before The Suburbs but that was a bit more structured and thematic than before. It was huge. It spawned a hilarious tumblr. Then they started doing two part songs and trying to be all intelligent and insightful and for a band with as many members and such a fondness for large, varied instrumentation anyway... not a good combo.

 

[henchman21]

I have a theory - which I've cooked up in the past five minutes - that bands who have surprising or proportionally larger than normal success with a concept album never really recover from it. American Idiot was a massive departure structurally from any Green Day album before it. It was massive and career defining. They tried the same thing five years later and it was a bloated, tuneless mess.

There's not as much of a back catalogue before The Suburbs but that was a bit more structured and thematic than before. It was huge. It spawned a hilarious tumblr. Then they started doing two part songs and trying to be all intelligent and insightful and for a band with as many members and such a fondness for large, varied instrumentation anyway... not a good combo.

My Chemical Romance disagrees with this. I'm typing this as not really a fan of theirs, but The Black Parade is a defining concept album that not only sent them to new heights, but changed music.

A band I'm more of a fan of Mastodon, got popular with a concept album about Moby Dick (and later astral travel in Czarist Russia) and parlayed that into one of the biggest metal bands of today (though I think all of their albums after Crack the Skye kinda suck).

 

[Ceremony]

My Chemical Romance disagrees with this. I'm typing this as not really a fan of theirs, but The Black Parade is a defining concept album that not only sent them to new heights, but changed music.

I didn't say concept albums didn't do that, I said there was a tendency for anything that followed to be lacking because the band tried and failed to live up to it. Even if The Black Parade was a concept album it was structured pretty conventionally and was filled with great songs from beginning to end. Danger Days went more out there in terms of structure with the radio inserts but it was still straightforward purely in terms of the songs outside of that, and again they were good. Also they went on a massive break shortly after, so they're not really similar to the Green Day or Arcade Fire examples I mentioned.

 

[henchman21]

I didn't say concept albums didn't do that, I said there was a tendency for anything that followed to be lacking because the band tried and failed to live up to it. Even if The Black Parade was a concept album it was structured pretty conventionally and was filled with great songs from beginning to end. Danger Days went more out there in terms of structure with the radio inserts but it was still straightforward purely in terms of the songs outside of that, and again they were good. Also they went on a massive break shortly after, so they're not really similar to the Green Day or Arcade Fire examples I mentioned.

I'd argue MCR hasn't been lacking following The Black Parade (still arguably the biggest guitar driven band in the world)... and the breakup was 7 years after TBP.

IDK I think it is a sweeping generalization to say concept albums tend to be a signal of forthcoming demise. There are clear examples, but they are the opposite too where bands get better and bigger.

 

[S E P H]

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain King Crimson or Zebra's long discography? Or Rush, Iron Madien, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, The Beatles, and maybe The Who?

You can also add Dream Theatre's, Metropolis: Part II (Scenes of a Memory) as they followed that up with Six Degrees and Black Clouds & Silver Linings (which are solid albums in their own right). Granted none of these albums came close to the impact that Imagines and Words had.

 

[S E P H]

I'd argue MCR hasn't been lacking following The Black Parade (still arguably the biggest guitar driven band in the world)... and the breakup was 7 years after TBP.

IDK I think it is a sweeping generalization to say concept albums tend to be a signal of forthcoming demise. There are clear examples, but they are the opposite too where bands get better and bigger.

I suggest that one-trick pony bands like the pop-punk or screamo-punk such as MCR all have a shelf life in them than some sort of outside factor. I think that could also explain why prog rock/metal bands can do numerous concepts and still stay sort of relevant in music (or at least make a living off of it).

I can't do a deep Google dive, but I think Blink-182 was one of the few bands that was able to survive this onslaught of one-trick pony bands. Nine Inch Nails did a concept album, but I am far from an expert concerning their discography as well.

 

[Ceremony]

I'd argue MCR hasn't been lacking following The Black Parade (still arguably the biggest guitar driven band in the world)... and the breakup was 7 years after TBP.

IDK I think it is a sweeping generalization to say concept albums tend to be a signal of forthcoming demise. There are clear examples, but they are the opposite too where bands get better and bigger.

They still only did one more album and tbf it was a while ago and I sort of condensed the timeline in my head

And I did originally mention I came up with the theory based on two bands five minutes before I posted about it

 

[Ceremony]

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain King Crimson

Old, nobody cares

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain Zebra's long discography?

Never heard of them

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain Rush

Genuinely would never have heard Rush if I wasn't on HF, and I doubt I've heard any of their music, also I'm not a massive nerd

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain Iron Madien

Metal is boring and childish and you're not going to convince me a band with album art like that is remotely different at any point in their career

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain Pink Floyd

I get the feeling a prog band that can create individual songs as good as theirs have something going for them, but I somehow doubt that translates to full albums

Plus if you venerate the Dark Side of the Moon artwork in any way you are deeply boring and unoriginal

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain David Bowie

Fun fact, David Bowie actually just... isn't that good. The interesting stuff in his songs is the music by the other people he worked with. Being androgynous might have been interesting in the 70s, I see people more flamboyant than him walking down the street in November nowadays

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain The Beatles

The Beatles persist as a concept just because they were there first. I've yet to hear anything by any of them that was remotely interesting, and they all seem like terrible people (except Harrison)

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain The Who?

Pete Townshend is a nonce and Roger Daltrey voted for Brexit, who cares

The Seeker and Baba O'Riley are tunes and I don't need anything else to accompany them

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain Dream Theatre

See Rush and Iron Maiden

 

[henchman21]

Concept albums? If what Ceremony says is true, how can we explain King Crimson or Zebra's long discography? Or Rush, Iron Madien, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, The Beatles, and maybe The Who?

You can also add Dream Theatre's, Metropolis: Part II (Scenes of a Memory) as they followed that up with Six Degrees and Black Clouds & Silver Linings (which are solid albums in their own right). Granted none of these albums came close to the impact that Imagines and Words had.

King Crimson and early Genesis are just GOAT.

I suggest that one-trick pony bands like the pop-punk or screamo-punk such as MCR all have a shelf life in them than some sort of outside factor. I think that could also explain why prog rock/metal bands can do numerous concepts and still stay sort of relevant in music (or at least make a living off of it).

I can't do a deep Google dive, but I think Blink-182 was one of the few bands that was able to survive this onslaught of one-trick pony bands. Nine Inch Nails did a concept album, but I am far from an expert concerning their discography as well.

I would argue any band that fits in a fad tends to have a shelf life, but in any of those, there are bands that escape. MCR is one of those (like Blink 182)... they are setting off on basically the worlds biggest rock tour right now.

They still only did one more album and tbf it was a while ago and I sort of condensed the timeline in my head

And I did originally mention I came up with the theory based on two bands five minutes before I posted about it

The best theories are made up in 5 minutes though!

Old, nobody cares


Never heard of them


Genuinely would never have heard Rush if I wasn't on HF, and I doubt I've heard any of their music, also I'm not a massive nerd


Metal is boring and childish and you're not going to convince me a band with album art like that is remotely different at any point in their career


I get the feeling a prog band that can create individual songs as good as theirs have something going for them, but I somehow doubt that translates to full albums

Plus if you venerate the Dark Side of the Moon artwork in any way you are deeply boring and unoriginal


Fun fact, David Bowie actually just... isn't that good. The interesting stuff in his songs is the music by the other people he worked with. Being androgynous might have been interesting in the 70s, I see people more flamboyant than him walking down the street in November nowadays


The Beatles persist as a concept just because they were there first. I've yet to hear anything by any of them that was remotely interesting, and they all seem like terrible people (except Harrison)


Pete Townshend is a nonce and Roger Daltrey voted for Brexit, who cares

The Seeker and Baba O'Riley are tunes and I don't need anything else to accompany them


See Rush and Iron Maiden

Now this post is just pure garbage.

 

[S E P H]

Now this post is just pure garbage.

I mean, he isn't wrong in some of those points. People tend to gravitate towards images of popular bands like album covers and I cringe whenever I see somebody wear a Pink Floyd shirt and I write this liking their music. Likewise with Iron Madien. Likewise with Paramore, which people strictly listen to simply because the lead singer has double-pairing of "X" chromosomes.