The All Things Sprong Containment Thread

[Ogrezilla]

Letang has played exceptionally well this season, save a few more turnovers of late. But there's been seasons he hasn't looked nearly as good,(if we're being honest about it).

He's had 1 seasons where he didn't live up to his contract; last year. Before that he's been good or injured. That's not to say he hasn't had bad games or even bad stretches. But so has everybody else.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You’re reading into quotes like tea leaves trying to identify why Sprong didn’t work here.

He wasn’t good and is one note and the roster has been fine without him. It is pretty obvious.

Like if Sprong gets knocked down to the fourth line in Anaheim when they’re healthy I’m seriously worried for you.

I'm simply looking for a unifying idea that makes sense of some of Sullivan's more frustrating roster preferences (and not just Sprong). We have Sullivan's quotes and actions to judge by. I don't see how it's controversial to suggest that he would prioritize players who make high-percentage plays - which naturally includes high-percentage shots.

The roster really hasn't been fine. We've gotten wins as Sid's line caught fire and our goaltending broke out of its funk. The Pens been a rollercoaster all year - let's see if we can escape the "lows" if/when one of those two sputters a bit.

 

[Ryder71]

He's had 1 seasons where he didn't live up to his contract; last year. Before that he's been good or injured. That's not to say he hasn't had bad games or even bad stretches. But so has everybody else.

No there hasn’t. And if there has he is usually suffering from a catastrophic injury or recovery from one.

I think we can agree he's playing at or near his optimal level this season and should be in contention for the Norris if he continues along his current course.

As far as previous years go, meh, I think there was a lot of inconsistency in his play. Still a very talented player obviously but he's reading the play better and making prudent decisions with the puck. I love how he's played this year. Arguably our best player.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think we can agree he's playing at or near his optimal level this season and should be in contention for the Norris if he continues along his current course.

As far as previous years go, meh, I think there was a lot of inconsistency in his play. Still a very talented player obviously but he's reading the play better and making less ''dangerous'' decisions with the puck. I love how he's played this year. Arguably our best player.

The Letang we are seeing this year is exactly how he played in 2013, 2015, and 2016?

He was arguably better in 2016 and definitely better in 2013. You do remember that season right where he was producing at a clip similar to our forwards.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I think that's a ridiculous argument and if that's the crux to which he's judged he would never have been drafted in the first place.

What?

Why wouldnt he be drafted?

Guys with goal scoring potential at 18 are a virtual lock to be drfated. But its there play away from the puck that flushes them.

Hes is judged on how good of a hockey player he is. Right now he isnt good. Not only has he been merely ok from a production standpoint but his play away from the pick is attrocious. Thats why he is a Duck right now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

As far as previous years go, meh, I think there was a lot of inconsistency in his play. Still a very talented player obviously but he's reading the play better and making less ''dangerous'' decisions with the puck. I love how he's played this year. Arguably our best player.

I think you're projecting last year on to his previous years. That or just underestimating how inconsistent other top-end D actually are too.

 

[Ryder71]

The Letang we are seeing this year is exactly how he played in 2013, 2015, and 2016?

He was arguably better in 2016 and definitely better in 2013. You do remember that season right where he was producing at a clip similar to our forwards.

2016 yes, I wasn't enamored with him in those previous years however. That's not to say he wasn't a good player but he made a lot of boneheaded plays with the puck.

 

[Ogrezilla]

2016 yes, I wasn't enamored with him in those previous years however. That's not to say he wasn't a good player but he made a lot of boneheaded plays with the puck.

he does that now too. He did in 2016 too. Every top offensive D-man does. But you notice it more when the team is losing. So those mistakes don't seem so bad this year or in 2016.

 

[Ryder71]

he does that now too. He did in 2016 too. Every top offensive D-man does. But you notice it more when the team is losing.

But he does it less now than before. He's much more sure handed than prior to 2016.

 

[Gurglesons]

2016 yes, I wasn't enamored with him in those previous years however. That's not to say he wasn't a good player but he made a lot of boneheaded plays with the puck.

He would’ve won the Norris in 2013 if healthy...

He missed a 1/4 of the season and was 2nd in production while being used in all situations on a historic team. Chicago overshadowed us that year, but that squad was insane in the regular season.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I'm simply looking for a unifying idea that makes sense of some of Sullivan's more frustrating roster preferences (and not just Sprong). We have Sullivan's quotes and actions to judge by. I don't see how it's controversial to suggest that he would prioritize players who make high-percentage plays - which naturally includes high-percentage shots.

The roster really hasn't been fine. We've gotten wins as Sid's line caught fire and our goaltending broke out of its funk. The Pens been a rollercoaster all year - let's see if we can escape the "lows" if/when one of those two sputters a bit.

The unifing theory you need to know is that he likes players that are good better than players that are complete dumpster fires. Therefore no Sprong.

The only guy i can think of since Sullivan took over that has gotten routinely scratched that i beleive shouldnt is Rikola and even then im willing to admit there possibly is a reason im just not seeing.

 

[Ogrezilla]

But he does it less now than before. He's much more sure handed than prior to 2016.

I don't think thats true.

 

[Ryder71]

He would’ve won the Norris in 2013 if healthy...

Paul Coffey won the norris, that's not to say he wasn't a good player but he himself was not all that strong defensively. But he was dynamic offensively and in carrying the puck and controlling the game at times. You can win a norris beyond your actual defensive prowess. That said I think Letangs all around game this season is tremendous.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't think thats true.

I do, he's better now. Less boneheaded plays. Hopefully it'll continue.

 

[SouthGeorge]

He would’ve won the Norris in 2013 if healthy...

He missed a 1/4 of the season and was 2nd in production while being used in all situations on a historic team. Chicago overshadowed us that year, but that squad was insane in the regular season.

Norris means nothing anymore. A lot of these yearly Norris candidates have achieved nothing; Burns, Subban, Karlsson, and Hedman.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I do, he's better now. Less boneheaded plays. Hopefully it'll continue.

I expect it will since it's been ongoing for like 8 years now

 

[Ogrezilla]

Norris means nothing anymore. A lot of these yearly Norris candidates have achieved nothing; Burns, Subban, Karlsson, and Hedman.

Complains about Norris winners, lists a group of the best dmen in the league. Sounds about right.

So you just don't like offensive dmen. That makes sense. It's silly, but at least it makes sense

 

[SouthGeorge]

So you just don't like offensive dmen. That makes sense. It's silly, but at least it makes sense

Exactly. I like my defense to play defense and offense to play offense. We have some of the best forwards in the world; Sid, Malkin, Kessel, and Guentzel. Why we need defensemen jumping up in the play is maddening. Then they wonder why they are giving up 3-4 goals every night. I don't mind solid pmd like Daley or Schultz.

 

[Gurglesons]

Exactly. I like my defense to play defense and offense to play offense. We have some of the best forwards in the world; Sid, Malkin, Kessel, and Guentzel. Why we need defensemen jumping up in the play is maddening. Then they wonder why they are giving up 3-4 goals every night. I don't mind solid pmd like Daley or Schultz.

... the f***. Solid PMDs like Schultz and Daley? LOLOL.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Exactly. I like my defense to play defense and offense to play offense. We have some of the best forwards in the world; Sid, Malkin, Kessel, and Guentzel. Why we need defensemen jumping up in the play is maddening. Then they wonder why they are giving up 3-4 goals every night. I don't mind solid pmd like Daley or Schultz.

right, so like I said, it's silly but at least it makes sense.

But seriously, you are wrong on this one. Like, way wrong. Watch our team play offense. Watch how much better they all do with Letang than they do with the rest of the D. You need D who can play offense. Puck moving defensemen are absolutely crucial in today's NHL.

Also, Daley is really bad at playing defense in his own zone. Like, way worse than anybody else you listed. So liking him is really strange.

 

[Andy99]

Exactly. I like my defense to play defense and offense to play offense. We have some of the best forwards in the world; Sid, Malkin, Kessel, and Guentzel. Why we need defensemen jumping up in the play is maddening. Then they wonder why they are giving up 3-4 goals every night. I don't mind solid pmd like Daley or Schultz.

Is this a joke? Sorry but you know nothing about how hockey is played these days or what it takes to produce a goal 5-on-5....

 

[Gurglesons]

Paul Coffey won the norris, that's not to say he wasn't a good player but he himself was not all that strong defensively. But he was dynamic offensively and in carrying the puck and controlling the game at times. You can win a norris beyond your actual defensive prowess. That said I think Letangs all around game this season is tremendous.

I seriously question your viewing of Letang if you think he’s anything like Paul Coffey.

 

[SouthGeorge]

right, so like I said, it's silly but at least it makes sense.

But seriously, you are wrong on this one. Like, way wrong. Watch our team play offense. Watch how much better they all do with Letang than they do with the rest of the D. You need D who can play offense. Puck moving defensemen are absolutely crucial in today's NHL.

Also, Daley is really bad at playing defense in our own zone. Like, way worse than anybody else you listed. So liking him is really strange.

You need pmd but you don't need all out offensive d-men. It's exactly why the yearly candidates I listed above have never lifted Lord Stanley.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You need pmd but you don't need all out offensive d-men. It's exactly why the yearly candidates I listed above have never lifted Lord Stanley.

Letang, Hedman, Karlsson, and Subban are all really good at playing defense too. Burns not so much.

And I still don't understand how you like Daley. He's a disaster defensively.

 

[Gurglesons]

You need pmd but you don't need all out offensive d-men. It's exactly why the yearly candidates I listed above have never lifted Lord Stanley.

Yet they’ve all been # 1 D on teams that have made it to the dance outside of Karlsson.

Sorry dude, you just said Daley and Schultz are more complete players than Letang which is just..

It is just so dumb.