The All Purpose Pens Off Day Thread - Injuries, Practice, Injuries, Lines, More Injuries, etc

[Beauner]

I wouldn't bank my future on that happening. St. Louis won without one, Tarensenko is nice, not Generational. I also see the trend in the NHL moving away from that type of hockey (sadly) to more of a system game.
Look at the Bruins... they found their best player with a similar pick that we traded for Zucker. That's my model.

Hoping a 20-something overall pick lands you a David Pastrnak is probably the WORST way to try and compete long-term. Like. That's a horrible idea.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I wouldn't bank my future on that happening. St. Louis won without one, Tarensenko is nice, not Generational. I also see the trend in the NHL moving away from that type of hockey (sadly) to more of a system game.
Look at the Bruins... they found their best player with a similar pick that we traded for Zucker. That's my model.

St Louis last year was an anomaly
Year before it was Ovi
Then us, twice
Chicago had Toews
LA had Kopitar
B's had Chara

You have to go all the way back to the Hurricanes in 2006 to find a team with a non elite player(s)

So those teams with elite players are the norm vs the exception.

But 1 team last year doesn't necessarily make it a trend. If we have the next 2 Cup winners take the same path, I'll change my mind. Otherwise it remains an inconsistent way to the Cup

 

[ChaosAgent]

St Louis last year was an anomaly
Year before it was Ovi
Then us, twice
Chicago had Toews
LA had Kopitar
B's had Chara

You have to go all the way back to the Hurricanes in 2006 to find a team with a non elite player(s)

So those teams with elite players are the norm vs the exception.

But 1 team last year doesn't necessarily make it a trend. If we have the next 2 Cup winners take the same path, I'll change my mind. Otherwise it remains an inconsistent way to the Cup

Occasionally bombing and picking low is different than a sustained tank. Also, wrong King. Doughty was the high pick. Kopitar was #11 I believe.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Occasionally bombing and picking low is different than a sustained tank. Also, wrong King. Doughty was the high pick. Kopitar was #11 I believe.

The Kings just further prove my point: a number 8 and 11 pick pushed them to 2 Cups

And the Bruins were brought up. Look at their draft history below, especially 2006. They luckily land 2 stars in Marchand and Lucic to propel them to the Cup in 2011 (which they might not have landed had they picked in the middle/end of those rounds vs early) . They used the Kessel capital to boost their depth too with a SCF appearance in 2013

So yea, I hope the Pens tank hard when Sid/Geno are done

Boston Bruins Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Chicago had Toews

I see what you did there.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The Kings just further prove my point: a number 8 and 11 pick pushed them to 2 Cups

And the Bruins were brought up. Look at their draft history below, especially 2006. They luckily land 2 stars in Marchand and Lucic to propel them to the Cup in 2011 (which they might not have landed had they picked in the middle/end of those rounds vs early) . They used the Kessel capital to boost their depth too with a SCF appearance in 2013

So yea, I hope the Pens tank hard when Sid/Geno are done

Boston Bruins Draft History at hockeydb.com

I think down times will happen as part of a normal course of a hockey franchise. I don't think a deliberate 4 year tank is needed or should be intentional. At the same time, don't be stupid and hand out legacy contracts. Like don't hand Dumo an $8.5m contract after this current one is up at age 30 (laugh if you want to, but the Hawks did this with Seabrook inflation-adjusted at the same age as Dumo would be when his contract expires)

 

[Gurglesons]

I often don't agree with you, Kev, but I'm 100% with you now.

I also think what you're saying reflects something else you said recently (tell me if I'm getting this wrong): that you have a preference for a certain type of talent-first player that you want to root for but is progressively lower-value in today's NHL. I also think that jives with your dislike of Sully - his system is usually effective, but man the Pens play fugly hockey sometimes especially on breakouts and entries.

I like Sully and think his system works/wins but for a certain type of hockey aesthete it wouldn't resonate.

Tell me if I got this totally wrong.

You’ve got this totally wrong.

Penguins have proven to be EXCELLENT at drafting. Pasta is Jake level. When Sid or Geno are gone much like Krejci and Bergeron the Bruins will crash. Pasta won’t help that.

Anyone criticizing the Zucker trade is incredibly short sighted and putting way too much impact on picks. And look at the young talent Boston has moved to stay relevant.

 

[Khelandros]

The Kings just further prove my point: a number 8 and 11 pick pushed them to 2 Cups

And the Bruins were brought up. Look at their draft history below, especially 2006. They luckily land 2 stars in Marchand and Lucic to propel them to the Cup in 2011 (which they might not have landed had they picked in the middle/end of those rounds vs early) . They used the Kessel capital to boost their depth too with a SCF appearance in 2013

So yea, I hope the Pens tank hard when Sid/Geno are done

Boston Bruins Draft History at hockeydb.com

Not to mention Brown who was picked 13th overall, Jeff Carter who was picked 11th overall, Marion Gaborik for the second Cup who was picked 3rd overall, Mike Richards who was picked 24th overall and Trevor Lewis was 17th overall.

 

[ChaosAgent]

You’ve got this totally wrong.

Penguins have proven to be EXCELLENT at drafting. Pasta is Jake level. When Sid or Geno are gone much like Krejci and Bergeron the Bruins will crash. Pasta won’t help that.

Anyone criticizing the Zucker trade is incredibly short sighted and putting way too much impact on picks. And look at the young talent Boston has moved to stay relevant.

I don't see what your rebuttal has to do with my post, @pixiesfanyo. You quoting the wrong one?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Not to mention Brown who was picked 13th overall, Jeff Carter who was picked 11th overall, Marion Gaborik for the second Cup who was picked 3rd overall, Mike Richards who was picked 24th overall and Trevor Lewis was 17th overall.

I'll never understand Marian Grointear's career, dude had constant lower body injuries his whole career, was fantastic in that 2013-14 run, then just sorted of faded back into the LTIR life. He's now a Senator, still under contract lol.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We've been a solid drafting team for years. It's only under the JR/Sully regime that we've improved and become competent as a development organization as well.

Jake, Rust, Murray, etc., etc. would've been lost in the fold under Shero/Bylsma and their penchant for acquiring vets, even over the hill guys, constantly.

 

[Gurglesons]

We've been a solid drafting team for years. It's only under the JR/Sully regime that we've improved and become competent as a development organization as well.

Jake, Rust, Murray, etc., etc. would've been lost in the fold under Shero/Bylsma and their penchant for acquiring vets, even over the hill guys, constantly.

Doubt it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You’ve got this totally wrong.

Penguins have proven to be EXCELLENT at drafting. Pasta is Jake level. When Sid or Geno are gone much like Krejci and Bergeron the Bruins will crash. Pasta won’t help that.

Anyone criticizing the Zucker trade is incredibly short sighted and putting way too much impact on picks. And look at the young talent Boston has moved to stay relevant.

I'm morbidly curious how the Pens will look when that happens. I'll probably be regretting my morbid curiosity when the time comes, but right now I'm trying to picture this team without the two of them and giggling at the complete lack of ability to create offense we'll get to watch.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We've been a solid drafting team for years. It's only under the JR/Sully regime that we've improved and become competent as a development organization as well.

Jake, Rust, Murray, etc., etc. would've been lost in the fold under Shero/Bylsma and their penchant for acquiring vets, even over the hill guys, constantly.

I mean, not really. Before that, when the Pens first got WBS, they were pretty hit or miss with developing players, they always preferred veteran players and journeymen over any sort of talent that they had to develop and I mean, if you saw who they drafted, you'd sort of understand, there's only so many Tom Kostopoulos and Martin Sonnenberg's to go around before you figure holy shit we suck at this.

It wasn't until right before Shero took over, that WBS really got overhauled, better coaches, better drafting, better development. It's not a Rutherford thing and it's most definitely not a Mike Sullivan and his fart scratch and a sniff in WBS thing.

Guys like Hynes, Reirden, Richards, Therrien, etc had more to do with WBS development than Sullivan and his 24 games did.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm morbidly curious how the Pens will look when that happens. I'll probably be regretting my morbid curiosity when the time comes, but right now I'm trying to picture this team without the two of them and giggling at the complete lack of ability to create offense we'll get to watch.

That's why you put everything into this era and go scorched earth after.

We ain't winning shit with what's left after Sid and Geno plus the odd late 1st rounder over the next few years. Gotta tank hard for a few years after those two ride off into the sunset. You build championship-calibre teams around superstars, usually more than one. With precious few exceptions, you don't get those without lotto picks.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You’ve got this totally wrong.

Penguins have proven to be EXCELLENT at drafting. Pasta is Jake level. When Sid or Geno are gone much like Krejci and Bergeron the Bruins will crash. Pasta won’t help that.

Anyone criticizing the Zucker trade is incredibly short sighted and putting way too much impact on picks. And look at the young talent Boston has moved to stay relevant.

I don't think Krejci hanging them up would hurt them as much, his decline sort of coincides with Pasta's rise to being an elite player in this league (which started back in 2016-17). One guy trends down another steps up, for the Pens, Jake is just rising to the cream of the crop and he's still got Sid & Geno being beasts to benefit from, so all of that weight isn't on his shoulders, same for Pasta who still has Bergeron and Marchand to lean on so it's not squarely on his shoulders.

But at this point, Krejci isn't their top 3 anymore for talented players. Krejci's numbers are closer to his 2016-17 numbers, he's at best on pace for 58pts this season if he was healthy.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm morbidly curious how the Pens will look when that happens. I'll probably be regretting my morbid curiosity when the time comes, but right now I'm trying to picture this team without the two of them and giggling at the complete lack of ability to create offense we'll get to watch.

I think it’ll be fun to see a team based around new players tbh.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think Krejci hanging them up would hurt them as much, his decline sort of coincides with Pasta's rise to being an elite player in this league (which started back in 2016-17). One guy trends down another steps up, for the Pens, Jake is just rising to the cream of the crop and he's still got Sid & Geno being beasts to benefit from, so all of that weight isn't on his shoulders, same for Pasta who still has Bergeron and Marchand to lean on so it's not squarely on his shoulders.

But at this point, Krejci isn't their top 3 anymore for talented players. Krejci's numbers are closer to his 2016-17 numbers, he's at best on pace for 58pts this season if he was healthy.

Krejci is a huge part of their 3 finals appearances regardless of his regular season performance. Pasta has been shown to not be able to carry a line as well.

 

[Peat]

I'm morbidly curious how the Pens will look when that happens. I'll probably be regretting my morbid curiosity when the time comes, but right now I'm trying to picture this team without the two of them and giggling at the complete lack of ability to create offense we'll get to watch.

Depends on how the rest of the team around them is. If its run well, and is run with the intent of competing up to the day they call it, then you basically get Minnesota - good wings, good defence, good system, with a void at centre. But with nearly 18m to throw around in cap space to try and fix it.

Conversely, if they got stuck on the same old faces, and have everyone entering obsolescence at the same time, then you get Detroit.

Either way, the shape of that team is probably going to have very little to do with who we draft. It will be shaped by who we trade for and sign.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's why you put everything into this era and go scorched earth after.

We ain't winning shit with what's left after Sid and Geno plus the odd late 1st rounder over the next few years. Gotta tank hard for a few years after those two ride off into the sunset. You build championship-calibre teams around superstars, usually more than one. With precious few exceptions, you don't get those without lotto picks.

Well for me, keeping Legare and Poulin was finally something good for this team constantly trading away picks and prospects to keep going for cups, you still need guys like Legare, Poulin, POJ, Hallander, etc in the pipeline, because the cap situation is one thing and the aging talent is the other.

I am maybe in the small group that think even when Sid & Geno retire, we'll still be a damn good team, I don't see this team dropping off like that, the culture built from when Shero took over has only gotten stronger, even when that moron MJ was murdering the team and Bylsma was doing his idiot thing, the Pens still found ways to be strong hockey teams, well not so much MJ's 2nd year, but yeah.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Krejci is a huge part of their 3 finals appearances regardless of his regular season performance. Pasta has been shown to not be able to carry a line as well.

Bergeron is the guy I deemed as the guy that will hurt them more when he and Krejci retire. Bergeron is huge to that team, even if Bergeron goes before Krejci, that would hurt that team far more than if it were the other way around.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well for me, keeping Legare and Poulin was finally something good for this team constantly trading away picks and prospects to keep going for cups, you still need guys like Legare, Poulin, POJ, Hallander, etc in the pipeline, because the cap situation is one thing and the aging talent is the other.

I am maybe in the small group that think even when Sid & Geno retire, we'll still be a damn good team, I don't see this team dropping off like that, the culture built from when Shero took over has only gotten stronger, even when that moron MJ was murdering the team and Bylsma was doing his idiot thing, the Pens still found ways to be strong hockey teams, well not so much MJ's 2nd year, but yeah.

I don't want this thread to veer any further off, but I'll say this: we had Sid and Geno then.

Once they're gone, the whole calculation changes. Jake's a great winger, but he's not the sort of talent to build a perennial contender around. You try to do that, you end up becoming the Montreal Canadiens - a perpetual bubble team that never does anything.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't want this thread to veer any further off, but I'll say this: we had Sid and Geno then.

Once they're gone, the whole calculation changes. Jake's a great winger, but he's not the sort of talent to build a perennial contender around. You try to do that, you end up becoming the Montreal Canadiens - a perpetual bubble team that never does anything.

Near the end of their careers is when the Pens will start to hoard those 1sts. Kasper Bjorkqvist will carry this team single handedly with Rust.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Hoping a 20-something overall pick lands you a David Pastrnak is probably the WORST way to try and compete long-term. Like. That's a horrible idea.

You know what’s worse, having 0.0% chance of landing a Pastrnak because your short term GM haphazardly gave away your picks.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You know what’s worse, having 0.0% chance of landing a Pastrnak because your short term GM haphazardly gave away your picks.

Not unless he trades 4th-6th round picks for John Marino's!