The All Purpose Pens Off Day Thread - Injuries, Practice, Injuries, Lines, More Injuries, etc

[LOGiK]

Look at Crosby. This recent stretch aside he works his ass off every day, every practice to be the best. Because he wants to win. He's the captain, that's how he wants his team to play.

If guys want the easy way and want to coast to a cup, they can get the f*** out. We're trying to win here.

I agree.

Though that is where it can get a bit sticky. Just for this discussion, lets say ZAR is a really nose to the grind stone kinda guy, coaches have him working on his physique and game (man assignments / possession breakouts, grinding / retrieval etc etc -- whatever else) and he's a decent locker room guy, players like him. He's a happy guy, that's his kind of game.

Then, you have your hard working guy in other areas -- Let's say, Kahun, who rides the bike does all the physical workouts, but he's not dependent on his physical game. He spends more time on the iq aspects of the game - reading his line mates tenancies, learning where players like their feeds for their shots, practicing his break-in's / puck handling etc etc whatever. He will not necessarily benefit from the same coaching routine a ZAR would, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the effort. They are different players with different aspects of their game to focus on. Let's say he's not as happy the way he's being coaches as he can't develop what he knows he is. So now he's not as liked as a ZAR would be because he's getting moody over this.

Do you ship out a Kahun because the coach doesn't like him over these reasons and keep all the ZAR's?

 

[LOGiK]

The problem with the Crosby situation is we have know idea if it's just him slacking or if it's from the core surgery. This may just be what we get from him for the rest of the season no matter what Sully does. Many players have taken a while to get back to 100% after this type of injury (Giroux for example). He needs to get back to playing smart, simple hockey and he needs to just start ripping some shots when he gets those chances instead of trying to make that extra pass all the time.

Yeah. I don't want to keep posting Ovi this and that, but I'm pretty sure Ovi was injured as well during that whole situation.

That is on Sid though if he's not feeling so hot due to his injury. Like everyone says, he's the leader. We all know his heart is there, but if he can't physically do it... taking a step back would not be the end of the season. It may even help. We all know Geno loves taking that lead role.

So, there is not only one single approach to it.

 

[ncm7772]

I don't get why Kahun is catching flack from the board. He didn't say, "I hate that organization and they play the wrong way for skilled players". He basically said a more open system is a little more fun...I think every skill player in the league would say that. He didn't say that's gonna lead to a more successful team/season.

Given he was actually quite responsible (and moreso than the guy he was traded for) and seemed to check every box on Sullivan's checklist, that's why it was so baffling with how he was used (or not used) after his first month or so. Let's be real, a Kahun - McCann - Horny 3rd line would be quite welcome right now.

My post wasn't meant to give flack. In fact, I don't have a problem with what he said. I was more so commenting because there were a bunch of posters who liked the post and several responded to it, lauding him. Essentially, I was saying that I'll take Cups and playoff experiences over siding with a now opposing player. If that makes sense.

 

[RSPens]

I agree.

Though that is where it can get a bit sticky. Just for this discussion, lets say ZAR is a really nose to the grind stone kinda guy, coaches have him working on his physique and game (man assignments / possession breakouts, grinding / retrieval etc etc -- whatever else) and he's a decent locker room guy, players like him. He's a happy guy, that's his kind of game.

Then, you have your hard working guy in other areas -- Let's say, Kahun, who rides the bike does all the physical workouts, but he's not dependent on his physical game. He spends more time on the iq aspects of the game - reading his line mates tenancies, learning where players like their feeds for their shots, practicing his break-in's / puck handling etc etc whatever. He will not necessarily benefit from the same coaching routine a ZAR would, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the effort. They are different players with different aspects of their game to focus on. Let's say he's not as happy the way he's being coaches as he can't develop what he knows he is. So now he's not as liked as a ZAR would be because he's getting moody over this.

Do you ship out a Kahun because the coach doesn't like him over these reasons and keep all the ZAR's?

The problem you are talking about here is a coaching groups lack of understanding about the fact that different players need to be coached differently. I am not in the dressing room and I am not connected to any player, however I don't think the diverse set of coaches that the Pens currently have are all approaching each player the same way. In this situation the only information we have is 1) Kahun was traded for Sully's son in law 2) Kahun made comments about being able to relax and be himself.

We don't know if JR just wanted Sheary and trading Kahun was the only way to get him, or if Sully wanted Kahun gone, or if the team wanted Kahun gone or if Kahun himself wanted to leave. Sure some people have mentioned that Kahun isn't the first to comment after leaving Pittsburgh, yet I haven't heard any names. In general it seems like once a person is connected to Pittsburgh they always seem to be connected to Pittsburgh. That doesn't sound like a team that people don't want to play for, or people don't like to play for. As I mentioned earlier the playing for the Pens or Caps or Boston or defending cup champion is always going to be more stressful than playing for a non-playoff team.

 

[Beauner]

I agree.

Though that is where it can get a bit sticky. Just for this discussion, lets say ZAR is a really nose to the grind stone kinda guy, coaches have him working on his physique and game (man assignments / possession breakouts, grinding / retrieval etc etc -- whatever else) and he's a decent locker room guy, players like him. He's a happy guy, that's his kind of game.

Then, you have your hard working guy in other areas -- Let's say, Kahun, who rides the bike does all the physical workouts, but he's not dependent on his physical game. He spends more time on the iq aspects of the game - reading his line mates tenancies, learning where players like their feeds for their shots, practicing his break-in's / puck handling etc etc whatever. He will not necessarily benefit from the same coaching routine a ZAR would, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the effort. They are different players with different aspects of their game to focus on. Let's say he's not as happy the way he's being coaches as he can't develop what he knows he is. So now he's not as liked as a ZAR would be because he's getting moody over this.

Do you ship out a Kahun because the coach doesn't like him over these reasons and keep all the ZAR's?

If he's going to fill a particular niche on this team that will help win, then yes. I'd kind of compare that to trading Perron for Hagelin. Perron, by practically any measure, is a better hockey player than Hagelin. But his game wasn't best utilized here no matter how hard he worked. Hagelin's was. So while we downgraded players in a vacuum, their overall impact was vastly different just based on how the, and their strenghts, slotted into the overall team.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Heya duders. Been gone a while. How's Bjugstad's season going? Well I assume?

 

[Malkinstheman]

I wonder if thell do it in time for tomorrows game.

 

[OnMyOwn]

They’re gonna wind up canceling this season. It’s starting to get bad with the closings of colleges, sporting venues, etc.

We’ll see.

 

[Al Smith]

I wonder if thell do it in time for tomorrows game.

Should be kinda weird for the players. Mears will have to up his game and the CBJ dude will have to take the chip-on-their-shoulder-get-no-respect theme up exponentially. Maybe they'll bring in some canned noise.

 

[Al Smith]

Heya duders. Been gone a while. How's Bjugstad's season going? Well I assume?

Out since November. Came back for a few games and was largely ineffective. Now out week-to-week with allegedly different LBI. Season is effectively a complete wash out.

 

[LOGiK]

The problem you are talking about here is a coaching groups lack of understanding about the fact that different players need to be coached differently. I am not in the dressing room and I am not connected to any player, however I don't think the diverse set of coaches that the Pens currently have are all approaching each player the same way. In this situation the only information we have is 1) Kahun was traded for Sully's son in law 2) Kahun made comments about being able to relax and be himself.

We don't know if JR just wanted Sheary and trading Kahun was the only way to get him, or if Sully wanted Kahun gone, or if the team wanted Kahun gone or if Kahun himself wanted to leave. Sure some people have mentioned that Kahun isn't the first to comment after leaving Pittsburgh, yet I haven't heard any names. In general it seems like once a person is connected to Pittsburgh they always seem to be connected to Pittsburgh. That doesn't sound like a team that people don't want to play for, or people don't like to play for. As I mentioned earlier the playing for the Pens or Caps or Boston or defending cup champion is always going to be more stressful than playing for a non-playoff team.

That was me. I didn't name names because I can't memorize everyone who said it so I can post it down the road in forums years later to back up a point that people do say it. I'm not lying that people said that, the most recent cases, are Kahun, Kessel and Brassard. Kessel didn't really say he was happy to be gone, he just said he wanted out. Same kind of thing.

Yeah I agree with ya.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Out since November. Came back for a few games and was largely ineffective. Now out week-to-week with allegedly different LBI. Season is effectively a complete wash out.

Ha... thanks for the sincere response. I don't deserve it since I was being my usual goofbag self. I've been following along carefully I just haven't had a chance to be around the board much last few months.

What a strange and utterly fruitless stop that poor bastard had here, huh?

 

[Al Smith]

Ha... thanks for the sincere response. I don't deserve it since I was being my usual goofbag self. I've been following along carefully I just haven't had a chance to be around the board much last few months.

What a strange and utterly fruitless stop that poor bastard had here, huh?

Yep. I'd feel bad for him if he weren't 27 and making $3 million-ish/year. And as a fan I'd care more if he regularly contributed when he did play.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yep. I'd feel bad for him if he weren't 27 and making $3 million-ish/year. And as a fan I'd care more if he regularly contributed when he did play.

Bjugstad is one of those guys you desperately WANT to like. But in practice plays more like Jordan Staal if he was taken out of the Sod Farm cloning vats a few months too early.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Sully welcomes all skilful players who are willing to put the work in. See Sheary's forecheck two shifts before Rodrigues' goal for what he wants and frankly, should get. Teams that aren't willing to work this hard don't win cups. They shouldn't have to work this hard all season because it's too long for that, but maybe that's what happens when injury attacks.



Eh. Rescued by a minute with Geno's line. I'll need a lot more showings before viewing them as anything other than proof of an objectively malevolent deity that wishes nothing more than the slow agonised destruction of us all.

That's a great way to put it.

I've long contended that this defense will live and die by the work of the forwards. Seems like another example of it.

 

[RSPens]

That was me. I didn't name names because I can't memorize everyone who said it so I can post it down the road in forums years later to back up a point that people do say it. I'm not lying that people said that, the most recent cases, are Kahun, Kessel and Brassard. Kessel didn't really say he was happy to be gone, he just said he wanted out. Same kind of thing.

Yeah I agree with ya.

It's kind of interesting. I can understand why Brassard or Kessel wouldn't like it here. They are not 2 way forwards. Brassard tried it here and failed. Kessel was never forced to be a 2 way player and look how the relationship with Geno deteriorated. Kahun is a strange one because he seemed to play the game the right way. However maybe he was just doing what the coaches asked, but really didn't want to have to. Hey if he does well in Buffalo, good on him. Unfortunately if Buffalo wants to move up the standings and be a playoff team, they will need to start demanding the same 2way play that these guys (Kessel, Brassard...) didn't want to do.

 

[RSPens]

Yep. I'd feel bad for him if he weren't 27 and making $3 million-ish/year. And as a fan I'd care more if he regularly contributed when he did play.

For $3M/year, what he brings wouldn't be too bad...unfortunately I think he makes $4M.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

For $3M/year, what he brings wouldn't be too bad...unfortunately I think he makes $4M.

He makes 5M in salary this year. It’s still a disaster of a season I feel sorry for him over, it’s actually unreal that he’s played 13 games this season and it’s possible that’s it without having a season ending injury early on.

 

[Al Smith]

He makes 5M in salary this year. It’s still a disaster of a season I feel sorry for him over, it’s actually unreal that he’s played 13 games this season and it’s possible that’s it without having a season ending injury early on.

Ha. I guess I looked at some older numbers. Now I'm just flat out jealous. At 27, I'd take the free nachos and the press box season tickets and be happy with that.

 

[Al Smith]

Bjugstad is one of those guys you desperately WANT to like. But in practice plays more like Jordan Staal if he was taken out of the Sod Farm cloning vats a few months too early.

He had some moments last year and even this year where you just think, "if this guy could play like this 80% of the time, he be a steal". But I'm not sure he'll ever hit that level. He just doesn't seem to have the Tanev-like motor we all wish he had.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He had some moments last year and even this year where you just think, "if this guy could play like this 80% of the time, he be a steal". But I'm not sure he'll ever hit that level. He just doesn't seem to have the Tanev-like motor we all wish he had.

The "Florida Boys" have been a bit of a mixed bag in general.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The "Florida Boys" have been a bit of a mixed bag in general.

McCann gets a lot of heat he doesn't deserve here.

Kid's 23. He's younger than a good portion of our prospects, versatile, durable, on a 44 point pace, and solid defensively.

There are areas he can improve, but he's already a quality contributor.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

McCann gets a lot of heat he doesn't deserve here.

Kid's 23. He's younger than a good portion of our prospects, versatile, durable, on a 44 point pace, and solid defensively.

There are areas he can improve, but he's already a quality contributor.

I'm not saying he's been terrible. I'm saying he's been a mixed bag. I'm not advocating he be sent to the salt mines or whatever.

 

[Peat]

That's a great way to put it.

I've long contended that this defense will live and die by the work of the forwards. Seems like another example of it.

To a huge extent yeah, but Letang and Marino can make their own weather and sometimes be the reason the forwards thrive. JJ and Schultz seem pathetically dependent on others. It's galling.

The "Florida Boys" have been a bit of a mixed bag in general.

Understatement and then some. And welcome back my man.

Honestly I think this last stretch of Bjugstad making a successful claim for most injury afflicted season by any individual Penguin and McCann doing only slightly more on the ice than Bjugstad has finally had me wishing we'd just kept Bonino and not spent all our damn assets on chasing 3Cs.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

To a huge extent yeah, but Letang and Marino can make their own weather and sometimes be the reason the forwards thrive. JJ and Schultz seem pathetically dependent on others. It's galling.



Understatement and then some. And welcome back my man.

Honestly I think this last stretch of Bjugstad making a successful claim for most injury afflicted season by any individual Penguin and McCann doing only slightly more on the ice than Bjugstad has finally had me wishing we'd just kept Bonino and not spent all our damn assets on chasing 3Cs.

Frankly I still don't know if I'm at the point where I'm pining for Bonino. But I definitely get what you mean. And couldn't agree more that this endless and pretty fruitless search for a flipping third line center has been a little silly.

And thanks man... good to see you crazy bastards, again.