Pre-Game Talk: The All-Purpose Mike Sullivan Thread - ALL COMMENTS AND COMPLAINTS HERE

[Jules Winnfield]

He was the apprentice of Torts, he's now become the master.

Meanwhile, Torts freaking mellowed all of a sudden this year.

JR either needs to get Sully the toys he needs to excel in his system or it’s going to be a long year with dissension and losing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He just does far too many things that look like a spiteful prick that wants to send a message in the most unhealthy way possible and that sort of shit has a very short shelf life.

Therrien+Bylsma = Sullivan.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't get the impression Sullivan has an ego. Preferred style of play and player? Yeah. That I do see.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

JR either needs to get Sully the toys he needs to excel in his system or it’s going to be a long year with dissension and losing.

I think if the rumors/reports are true, then JR might end up having to make that choice fast. It'll either be trading away more talent to find replacements (unlikely to get value) or fire his coach.

It's funny, people would rather get rid of Kessel (stupid imo, a 90pt winger isn't remotely close as easily available) than do anything about Sullivan, but what happens if Malkin is even like ok fine, you want him, I want out.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Im sure theyre both frustrating as f*** to coach, considering there 200ft effort waxes and wanes and even when there playing well they usually go off script.

But at the end of the day he will have to deal with it because Malkin aint never going anywhere.

 

[DegenX]

Kessel either had two of our best defensive forwards tied to him or was getting some kushy zone starts.

My point is what exactly does a new coach come in and make these guys do?

Malkin and Kessel are supposed to be leaders here. If they can’t deal with a coach telling them to play the game the right way figure it out.

They should honestly respect Sully for what he did with this franchise. 2016 was a “right place / right time”. 2017 was a coaching clinic.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Anyone that (lol) pays for DK's crap, give us more on that article or is there a place we can find the whole article outside of that abomination of a site?

That particular article I linked to is free. That's all there is to it.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I don't put any stock in what Dupuis is saying.

Hes not even claiming he knows anything, hes just giving an opinion.

If he actually claimed he knew something then i could take it more seriously.

 

[madinsomniac]

I think if the rumors/reports are true, then JR might end up having to make that choice fast. It'll either be trading away more talent to find replacements (unlikely to get value) or fire his coach.

It's funny, people would rather get rid of Kessel (stupid imo, a 90pt winger isn't remotely close as easily available) than do anything about Sullivan, but what happens if Malkin is even like ok fine, you want him, I want out.

If malkin or crosby wanted a new coach and said so to the front office, Sully would be out... I just don’t think those guys would do that

 

[Andy99]

JR either needs to get Sully the toys he needs to excel in his system or it’s going to be a long year with dissension and losing.

But it’s more than just one or two moves...and there’s also the need for consistent goaltending...they’ve been moving away from speed to a more gritty style of play...this has to be by joint agreement of coaches and management because the core is aging out...if Sully is trying to play 2015-16 against the FO’s plan then there’s big big problems in the organization and why hasn’t he been fired already...
I believe any problems G and Phil would have with Sullivan has to do with the boring, grind it out, unskilled and not very fun hockey he believes the team needs to play to be successful...he might be right but I don’t blame skilled players for not wanting to play in it...

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Honestly, I don't think Malkin has an issue with Sullivan. Not that I'd expect him to say otherwise, but he called Sullivan a good coach last night and says the right things. I think Geno is frustrated right now, but that's not necessarily because of Sullivan.

I think Kessel is an incredibly valuable player, but there may be something to the fact that he has a shelf life on each team. As an almost exclusively offensive player, I can see how he might draw the ire of a coaching staff and even some teammates.

I think Dupuis is trying to read between the lines a bit when he hears some former teammates venting.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Im sure theyre both frustrating as **** to coach, considering there 200ft effort waxes and wanes and even when there playing well they usually go off script.

But at the end of the day he will have to deal with it because Malkin aint never going anywhere.

There has never been a coach that has ever claimed Evgeni Malkin was a difficult player to coach.

As for Phil, he just wants to play and he picked the Pens to play with 1 of the 2 top centers in the game.

Not f***ing Riley Sheahan or whatever trash Derrick Brassard has become.

 

[Andy99]

I don't put any stock in what Dupuis is saying.

Hes not even claiming he knows anything, hes just giving an opinion.

If he actually claimed he knew something then i could take it more seriously.

He was at the team facility this week...he’s not going to push anybody under the bus...he’s saying it as his opinion perhaps but he’s talked to players directly this week

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That particular article I linked to is free. That's all there is to it.

Was that it? Because it stops and doesn't let me read more than the first quote by Dupers.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If malkin or crosby wanted a new coach and said so to the front office, Sully would be out... I just don’t think those guys would do that

Sid & Geno would never say it, because that's who they are.

It's on JR to identify it and not be blinded by past success. That's how Shero hitched his wagon to a lame duck.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

He just does far too many things that look like a spiteful prick that wants to send a message in the most unhealthy way possible and that sort of **** has a very short shelf life.

Therrien+Bylsma = Sullivan.

Remember when Phil was injured and limped into the playoffs and kept his Ironman streak alive? Remember when the playoffs were over and reporters asked if Phil was injured?

Sully couldn’t wait to say Phil wasn’t injured.

He and Cole had a falling out? He couldn’t be the big man in the situation to rectify it. Instead he had to show Cole who was boss.

This season has been his first real test of adversity with injuries and player performance issue. It’s the players fault not his. He should’ve been able to recognize the game plans aren’t working and should’ve modified them. Instead it’s just line combinations...

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Also, if we're talking franchise pecking order, Crosby and Malkin are at the top. The coach and GM will go before they do, ownership will be sure of that.

Kessel is far more vulnerable to being moved and I think Rutherford would not only move Kessel before firing Sullivan, but ownership would be okay with that.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Remember when Phil was injured and limped into the playoffs and kept his Ironman streak alive? Remember when the playoffs were over and reporters asked if Phil was injured?

Sully couldn’t wait to say Phil wasn’t injured.

He and Cole had a falling out? He couldn’t be the big man in the situation to rectify it. Instead he had to show Cole who was boss.

This season has been his first real test of adversity with injuries and player performance issue. It’s the players fault not his. He should’ve been able to recognize the game plans aren’t working and should’ve modified them. Instead it’s just line combinations...

And that was the funniest thing.

He completely threw Kessel under the bus and I don't think Phil is the kind of guy that lets that go and I don't think Sully is the kind of guy that lets you forget that.

Also, if we're talking franchise pecking order, Crosby and Malkin are at the top. The coach and GM will go before they do, ownership will be sure of that.

Kessel is far more vulnerable to being moved and I think Rutherford would not only move Kessel before firing Sullivan, but ownership would be okay with that.

And Ownership would be even dumber to allow it.

First you are never going to get back anything remotely close to value for Kessel, he also has a list of teams he can't go to and those are likely teams that will want to pay up and stuff like this, spreads like wild fire.

We'd be lucky to get back close to the package we gave up for him. Honestly.

We already dumped away a potential top 6 winger, then we gave up a top 6 prospect for him, we move him, what's the chances we get back anything remotely close to a Kapanen, a 1st, and whatever garbage roster guy that team wants to dump to us?

Unlikely imo. I really don't see a bunch of teams lining up to dump off a top 6 winger on an ELC given the cap implications and what not.

 

[Gurglesons]

Remember when Phil was injured and limped into the playoffs and kept his Ironman streak alive? Remember when the playoffs were over and reporters asked if Phil was injured?

Sully couldn’t wait to say Phil wasn’t injured.

He and Cole had a falling out? He couldn’t be the big man in the situation to rectify it. Instead he had to show Cole who was boss.

This season has been his first real test of adversity with injuries and player performance issue. It’s the players fault not his. He should’ve been able to recognize the game plans aren’t working and should’ve modified them. Instead it’s just line combinations...

Cole was played until the GM moved him?

Phil Kessel 100% deserves criticism when he potentially costs a team a chance at a three peat for a regular season accolade that means nothing.

Kessel was our worst player in the playoffs which is saying something given half our squad (Letang, Brassard, and Maatta) in the Caps series.

 

[Gurglesons]

I trust Malkin. If he quits on a coach I’ll give it faith.

Kessel is a 50/50 player and honestly, I think he should’ve been moved last summer.

 

[cheesedanish87]

He was at the team facility this week...he’s not going to push anybody under the bus...he’s saying it as his opinion perhaps but he’s talked to players directly this week

I thought he was their to coach his sons team?

Dupuis is in the media, when you get asked a question you got to give an answer, he can't just say i don't know.

Its an easy answer to give that Geno and Phil aren't getting along with the coach considering Phil hates every coach and Geno is struggling right now.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Cole was played until the GM moved him?

Phil Kessel 100% deserves criticism when he potentially costs a team a chance at a three peat for a regular season accolade that means nothing.

Kessel was our worst player in the playoffs which is saying something given half our squad (Letang, Brassard, and Maatta) in the Caps series.

There was absolutely no way we lost vs the Caps because of Kessel.

We got out coached by Trotz. That's what happened.

Even a gimped Kessel in the line-up was better than some grinder up on the club, playing. But the blame on Kessel was just moronic.

Edit: Because for one, Sullivan claimed he wasn't even that hurt, so imagine if Phil sat to rest, then people found out he really could have played through it, the amount of shit people would throw at Kessel for that would be 100x worse than him trying to play through an injury.

Because guess what, 90% of the players are playing through an injury, hell what was Backstrom playing through on the Caps? Pens were gimped, so were the caps. Pens just flat out got out coached because the other team decided to learn from their issues.

 

[Gurglesons]

There was absolutely no way we lost vs the Caps because of Kessel.

We got out coached by Trotz. That's what happened.

Even a gimped Kessel in the line-up was better than some grinder up on the club, playing. But the blame on Kessel was just moronic.

Edit: Because for one, Sullivan claimed he wasn't even that hurt, so imagine if Phil sat to rest, then people found out he really could have played through it, the amount of **** people would throw at Kessel for that would be 100x worse than him trying to play through an injury.

Because guess what, 90% of the players are playing through an injury, hell what was Backstrom playing through on the Caps? Pens were gimped, so were the caps. Pens just flat out got out coached because the other team decided to learn from their issues.

Kessel was a huge factor of why we lost that series along with Letang and Murray.

Injuries to Malkin, Hags and Brass were also pretty crucial. But, Kessel was easily our worst player in that series after Tanger. And Letang at least slightly redeemed himself in Game 6.

He had no ES points, was a disaster defensively and was just down right bad.

 

[Andy99]

I thought he was their to coach his sons team?

Dupuis is in the media, when you get asked a question you got to give an answer, he can't just say i don't know.

Its an easy answer to give that Geno and Phil aren't getting along with the coach considering Phil hates every coach and Geno is struggling right now.

I don’t think he’d answer something just to answer...easiest thing is to say I was there for my son and didn’t talk to anyone... he knows more than he’s saying and he’s putting it in terms of a “communication problem”...that’s a euphemism... that’s what makes me think he knows something more specific...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I thought he was their to coach his sons team?

Dupuis is in the media, when you get asked a question you got to give an answer, he can't just say i don't know.

Its an easy answer to give that Geno and Phil aren't getting along with the coach considering Phil hates every coach and Geno is struggling right now.

No, lol god no.

The easy answer is the usual pens speak - "The answers are there, they'll play through it, that's a resilient group." - That's what you expect to hear, the lame canned response you always get.

Him saying what he said, less stirring up shit and more just being the guy that sees whats going on and is like f*** it, I'm gonna say it because they won't.