Pre-Game Talk: The All-Purpose Mike Sullivan Thread - ALL COMMENTS AND COMPLAINTS HERE

[BHD]

People aren't happy with the job he's doing right now, which is understandable. However, let's keep it here instead of having it boil over into every thread. This will be open in between GDTs, most likely after the PGT is closed.

As with every other thread, the rules still apply. Refrain from commenting if you can't respect other posters/their view points.

Click to read more...

 

[KIRK]

This should be fun . . .

Spoiler: Sully

Personally, I like Sully because he makes players like @ColePens boy Zac Aston-Reese EARN it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

f*** Sullivan, that punk ass bitch.

 

[BHD]

We'll see how it goes. If it ends up being people throwing stones at each other because of how they view him, then it'll be closed.

 

[KIRK]

We'll see how it goes. If it ends up being people throwing stones at each other because of how they view him, then it'll be closed.

I truly hope not.

I trust some people will offer legit critiques about what he's doing structurally and as a bench boss.

Some will offer the 'he won us a cup _____ years ago' Bylsma defense.

Others will flip out.

And a few like me will enjoy poking a little fun at the **** show which JR created and Sully is exacerbating.

That said, yes, people don't need to take shots at each other. We should embrace this thread and have some good discussions.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Hey @BHD, about keeping this thread from degenerating into a ****show . . .

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think he saved JR from looking at other alternatives after that terrible stretch to go on that points streak.

I’d say it’s more on JR to make some moves to the roster so we can be a cup contender again. Then it’s up to the players and coaches. We’re not quite at that stage yet.

Sully did win the cup with 2 different styles but we can’t play either right now. We probably can’t recreate 2016 again nor should we want to recreate 2017 but while we have players like Sid, Geno, Phil, Letang and playoff Jake we can play somewhere in between and be successful. Just need to dump the dumb players which will tighten up that GA.

It’s a new challenge for Sully. We fought through a lot of adversity over the years and he’s kept their minds on the ultimate prize. Injuries derailed that last playoffs but now it’s how to get the best of our bad players. Also a style that can work in the short term plus a style that’s going to take to the finals of the roster changes for the better.

Maybe the roster can’t be fixed in the short time before the deadline but everything can still be working towards another cup run. That might be next season now. Sully can still be doing his part in that.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think he saved JR from looking at other alternatives after that terrible stretch to go on that points streak.

I’d say it’s more on JR to make some moves to the roster so we can be a cup contender again. Then it’s up to the players and coaches. We’re not quite at that stage yet.

Sully did win the cup with 2 different styles but we can’t play either right now. We probably can’t recreate 2016 again nor should we want to recreate 2017 but while we have players like Sid, Geno, Phil, Letang and playoff Jake we can play somewhere in between and be successful. Just need to dump the dumb players which will tighten up that GA.

It’s a new challenge for Sully. We fought through a lot of adversity over the years and he’s kept their minds on the ultimate prize. Injuries derailed that last playoffs but now it’s how to get the best of our bad players. Also a style that can work in the short term plus a style that’s going to take to the finals of the roster changes for the better.

Maybe the roster can’t be fixed in the short time before the deadline but everything can still be working towards another cup run. That might be next season now. Sully can still be doing his part in that.

The thing people keep attaching themselves to is that he won with 2 different styles, then failed last year and is failing again this year. Was it really his style or did he just take over a team that was stomped on by a terrible coach, caught fire at the right time and then again the following year. We were propelled by some legendary performances by Murray, Malkin, Crosby, and Kessel to win, there was absolutely no denying those players those 2 years.

A great coach adapts and evolves his system, I think the back 2 back cups is blinding a lot of people the same way it did when people realized, oh Bylsma actually does suck...

JR definitely needs to shoulder half the blame here. But JR is also not telling Sullivan to play people in certain situations and f*** that up royally as well. The challenge was last year, the excuse was fatigue, but the underlying issues of him not evolving the system was there, it was mentioned by several people. I mentioned it in my asshole-ish way as well, I hoped for the best in the summer, but man, people keep saying he should now get the benefit of the doubt as a challenge...

Well he showed his lack of creativity last year, this year he's showing it again. Some of the people failing in the bottom 6 are his doing, people keep wanting to say we are getting terrible performances out of people, but when you look at usage, some of these players have never looked good in that type of usage and the ones that have, are shafted even further.

Forget Sprong, this goes deeper than that. To have this guy propped up on 2 cup wins as his only reason to keep him on is beyond ridiculous. Like I said, we'll be 3, 4, maybe 5 years removed at this rate, from the cup with the core absolutely done and looking at trying to catch up to be a serious contender again in maybe 5yrs after that.

The window is now, being patient is why we wasted so many years from 2010-15.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Sullivan has made a bunch of mistakes this year, but a lot of people take unnecessary shots at him for just not liking their guy or liking a guy they don't like. The complaints about Sprong and ZAR show these two perfectly. It's less Sullivan making bad decisions, and more Sullivan playing players that they don't like or not playing players they like. I don't think those are legitimate criticisms.

I think people blame Sullivan for a lot of problems that are out of his control, too. I think JR deserves more blame for making a flawed roster. The big things I criticize Sullivan for are being very stubborn with his system and not getting the players to play more responsibly. Systematic breakdowns are totally due to the coaches, especially when they're chronic mistakes.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I think the team isn't with him at this point. Geno, Kessel, Brass, are all examples. Not sure how he inspires his team but it really hasn't worked this year so far.
He wont bench guys like Rust or Maatta to send messages. IMO he's a paper tiger and the room knows it.
He has weeks to get it right. After that, it will be too late. I hope he finds the magic soon .

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

“We played, like, one or two games,” Brassard said. “The lines are always changing. There were some guys injured who came back. So when you say ‘my line’ yeah, for (Tuesday) it’s Phil and Zach. Who knows if we’re going to finish the game together? Who knows what’s going to happen in the future? I’m just going to focus on (Tuesday) and trying to make plays with those guys.”

Pens Practice: Brassard Defends His Work With Kessel

Legit gripe with the dumb Sullivan line blender, you say? Sounds like an attitude problem, if you ask me.

 

[KIRK]

The thing people keep attaching themselves to is that he won with 2 different styles, then failed last year and is failing again this year. Was it really his style or did he just take over a team that was stomped on by a terrible coach, caught fire at the right time and then again the following year. We were propelled by some legendary performances by Murray, Malkin, Crosby, and Kessel to win, there was absolutely no denying those players those 2 years.

A great coach adapts and evolves his system, I think the back 2 back cups is blinding a lot of people the same way it did when people realized, oh Bylsma actually does suck...

JR definitely needs to shoulder half the blame here. But JR is also not telling Sullivan to play people in certain situations and **** that up royally as well. The challenge was last year, the excuse was fatigue, but the underlying issues of him not evolving the system was there, it was mentioned by several people. I mentioned it in my *******-ish way as well, I hoped for the best in the summer, but man, people keep saying he should now get the benefit of the doubt as a challenge...

Well he showed his lack of creativity last year, this year he's showing it again. Some of the people failing in the bottom 6 are his doing, people keep wanting to say we are getting terrible performances out of people, but when you look at usage, some of these players have never looked good in that type of usage and the ones that have, are shafted even further.

Forget Sprong, this goes deeper than that. To have this guy propped up on 2 cup wins as his only reason to keep him on is beyond ridiculous. Like I said, we'll be 3, 4, maybe 5 years removed at this rate, from the cup with the core absolutely done and looking at trying to catch up to be a serious contender again in maybe 5yrs after that.

The window is now, being patient is why we wasted so many years from 2010-15.

Frankly, I think a big issue is that from a speed perspective Sully still acts like he's coaching the team he had 2 years ago for the way the league was 2 years ago. Few teams could skate with the Pens then. I can't think of one that can't now.

Spoiler: On the other hand

Maybe Garrett Wilson actually is fast.

Pens Practice: Brassard Defends His Work With Kessel

Legit gripe with the dumb Sullivan line blender, you say? Sounds like an attitude problem, if you ask me.

Oh, we both know Sully already has the ball rolling on dealing with that headache.

 

[Andy99]

The thing people keep attaching themselves to is that he won with 2 different styles, then failed last year and is failing again this year. Was it really his style or did he just take over a team that was stomped on by a terrible coach, caught fire at the right time and then again the following year. We were propelled by some legendary performances by Murray, Malkin, Crosby, and Kessel to win, there was absolutely no denying those players those 2 years.

A great coach adapts and evolves his system, I think the back 2 back cups is blinding a lot of people the same way it did when people realized, oh Bylsma actually does suck...

JR definitely needs to shoulder half the blame here. But JR is also not telling Sullivan to play people in certain situations and **** that up royally as well.

I don’t know if it was his “style”but he did come in the first year, focus the players on an identity, get them to buy in and then made good adjustments during the POs....second season, it was mostly the players taking over but he did recognize the problems on defense and made some solid modification that helped....but still it was an unsustainable PDO that got us the second Cup....since then, as some players changed and the problems that cropped up got worse, he exacerbated those problems with terrible roster management and he was outcoached in the POs...this year, he has no answer and I wonder if some players have already tuned him out...he’s also developed in a typical mindless coach who loves “safe” energy players who are just blah...they don’t contribute to winning the game, or losing it...it’s like a football coach who plays not to lose the game...those coaches aren’t making it to the SB...

We need to move on from him but it looks like he’s won the power and authority bid over JR and he’ll be here for awhile...yuck

 

[Tom Hanks]

The thing people keep attaching themselves to is that he won with 2 different styles, then failed last year and is failing again this year. Was it really his style or did he just take over a team that was stomped on by a terrible coach, caught fire at the right time and then again the following year. We were propelled by some legendary performances by Murray, Malkin, Crosby, and Kessel to win, there was absolutely no denying those players those 2 years.

A great coach adapts and evolves his system, I think the back 2 back cups is blinding a lot of people the same way it did when people realized, oh Bylsma actually does suck...

JR definitely needs to shoulder half the blame here. But JR is also not telling Sullivan to play people in certain situations and **** that up royally as well.

I put injuries the main reason for our failure last playoffs. Just having Malkin healthy might have been enough. Fatigue was a big thing during the season too which is understandable.

I’d like to see a better style of play this season which is part Sully, part JR, part players. Too many dumb players and that’s why we need to change the way we play but sometimes it doesn’t matter if they keep making dumb decisions on the ice.

We will always be a high scoring team but we need to defend better and what we have isn’t cutting it. Sully has made some adjustments but it’s not a sustainable one. Basically the bottom 6 just not give up many goals and the top 6 has to out score the opposition.

 

[KIRK]

I think the team isn't with him at this point. Geno, Kessel, Brass, are all examples. Not sure how he inspires his team but it really hasn't worked this year so far.
He wont bench guys like Rust or Maatta to send messages. IMO he's a paper tiger and the room knows it.
He has weeks to get it right. After that, it will be too late. I hope he finds the magic soon .

I'm pretty certain that Kessel and Brassard aren't with Sully.

I'm not certain that Geno isn't with Sully. I'm also less certain that he is.

I put injuries the main reason for our failure last playoffs. Just having Malkin healthy might have been enough. Fatigue was a big thing during the season too which is understandable.

I’d like to see a better style of play this season which is part Sully, part JR, part players. Too many dumb players and that’s why we need to change the way we play but sometimes it doesn’t matter if they keep making dumb decisions on the ice.

We will always be a high scoring team but we need to defend better and what we have isn’t cutting it. Sully has made some adjustments but it’s not a sustainable one. Basically the bottom 6 just not give up many goals and the top 6 has to out score the opposition.

We didn't have Geno healthy last year because he spent 2 months killing himself to gloss over the **** job JR had done in the summer and the stupid things Sully was embracing (not unlike Sid is trying to do now, as both JR last summer and Sully this season doubled down on the dumb).

Spoiler: Spoiler

Excluding Jack Mother ******* Johnson, of course. That was the free agent signing of the century, and the dude is killing it out there . . . why, if you don't believe it, just listen to Sully.

 

[EightyOne]

Pretty sure this is a Bait Thread.

Bans for all posters in here incoming..

..wait...damn.

 

[ronduguayshair]

To all the Sullivan haters who want him fired:

1. Please describe his system and why it’s not working.

2. Please name a better candidate and the system they will run and why it will be more effective.

 

[Ryder71]

Sully lets personal feelings get in the way of rational thought related to player personnel and just how a player is utilized. Once he started down that path he lost objectivity, proper perspective and subsequently some of the players on this team. It's less than a harmonious locker room.

 

[EightyOne]

To all the Sullivan haters who want him fired:

1. Please describe his system and why it’s not working.

2. Please name a better candidate and the system they will run and why it will be more effective.

1. Dump n chase, soft zone d, pray Sid can play.
Which means:
There's no cohesiveness on the breakout, defensive assignments are confused, and Sid can't carry a team every night.

2. No one. It's why he hasn't been fired. But just because no one is better, doesn't make you good.

 

[BHD]

Pretty sure this is a Bait Thread.

Bans for all posters in here incoming..

..wait...damn.

Part of it is to give people a place to vent rather than disrupt the other threads.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

To all the Sullivan haters who want him fired:

1. Please describe his system and why it’s not working.

2. Please name a better candidate and the system they will run and why it will be more effective.

1. If you don't know....yeesh.
2. Joel Quenneville.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sully lets personal feelings get in the way of rational thought related to player personnel and just how a player is utilized. Once he started down that path he lost objectivity, proper perspective and subsequently some of the players on this team. It's less than a harmonious locker room.

It's funny because this is the same sort of crap we heard after the 1st year with Mike Johnston, oddly enough. That people weren't happy, he wasn't a fan of some of the players, etc.

Sullivan is basically banking on Crosby to bail him out, bad way to go.

 

[Ryder71]

It's funny because this is the same sort of crap we heard after the 1st year with Mike Johnston, oddly enough. That people weren't happy, he wasn't a fan of some of the players, etc.

Sullivan is basically banking on Crosby to bail him out, bad way to go.

Hopefully their fates are similar and soon!

 

[Tom Hanks]

To all the Sullivan haters who want him fired:

1. Please describe his system and why it’s not working.

2. Please name a better candidate and the system they will run and why it will be more effective.

I think AV would be a great coach here and would play a bit better of a defensive game without sacrificing much offense. Our GF would drop slightly but I think our GA would drop a lot more.

I don’t think we are at the stage of another coach at this moment. If a couple more roster moves happen and we continue to be down in the standings then obviously some decisions/enquires need to be made.

 

[Ryder71]

Also as it relates to Sully, losing Tocchet is a much bigger loss than this organIzation would care to admit.

 

[Ryder71]

I think AV would be a great coach here and would play a bit better of a defensive game without sacrificing much offense. Our GF would drop slightly but I think our GA would drop a lot more.

I don’t think we are at the stage of another coach at this moment. If a couple more roster moves happen and we continue to be down in the standings then obviously some decisions/enquires need to be made.

I think AV might be a better fit than JQ for this team. Although either IMO would be better than Sully.