Pre-Game Talk: The All-Purpose Mike Sullivan Thread - ALL COMMENTS AND COMPLAINTS HERE

[Ryder71]

But aren't you looking forward to stuff like...

"It's still early..."
"We've dug out of a hole like this before..."
"Sully has won us back 2 back cups, I trust him..."
"Zar has earned the ice time..."

It's kind of coming full circle. Sully lost his first four games here in december to start his tenure, might be fitting for it to end in the same fashion.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's kind of coming full circle. Sully lost his first four games here in december to start his tenure, might be fitting for it to end in the same fashion.

I don't think the fat man has the balls to do it.

He'll do it in the off season when the damage is already done and set in. And again, this team is looking at a new coach to put in a system...patchwork solutions to long term issues.

 

[Andy99]

I don't think the fat man has the balls to do it.

He'll do it in the off season when the damage is already done and set in. And again, this team is looking at a new coach to put in a system...patchwork solutions to long term issues.

Well there’s no “balls” involved if you already have a replacement in mind...so it kinda depends on whether he’s been thinking about it as a possible solution and has put out feelers...I don’t see a knee jerk reaction happening that says “you lost four games—gone”

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Well there’s no “balls” involved if you already have a replacement in mind...so it kinda depends on whether he’s been thinking about it as a possible solution and has put out feelers...I don’t see a knee jerk reaction happening that says “you lost four games—gone”

I understand if JR is worried there might not be a good replacement out there.

But this time, it's a buyers market for coaches.

 

[Andy99]

I understand if JR is worried there might not be a good replacement out there.

But this time, it's a buyers market for coaches.

Maybe...but they gotta want to come here...hard as it is to believe, not every coach wants to coach the Pens’ stars...I, for one, can’t imagine JR wanting to leave Recchi in as interim coach, maybe Martin but the defense has not exactly shined...

 

[Pete Gas]

JR hasn’t given Sully his vote of confidence. In 2008 Lavy was fired on Dec 3 and replaced by Maurice so JR has pulled the trigger before on coaches in Dec

 

[canadianguy77]

I don't think the fat man has the balls to do it.

He'll do it in the off season when the damage is already done and set in. And again, this team is looking at a new coach to put in a system...patchwork solutions to long term issues.

I dont think ownership will even let him have a say if the playoff chances start looking too bleak.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Maybe...but they gotta want to come here...hard as it is to believe, not every coach wants to coach the Pens’ stars...I, for one, can’t imagine JR wanting to leave Recchi in as interim coach, maybe Martin but the defense has not exactly shined...

I think Vigneault would.

Alain and Martin have worked together before, I would hope they would terminate Recchi along with Sullivan and bring in AV as HC, Ulf as AC, keep Martin + Sarge.

 

[Turin]

He's got two more games to hang himself

Might as well step down then, because Marcus Pettersson or whatever his name is isn’t the answer to all the roster problems. I call BS.

 

[Turin]

Are Laviolette and Cooper still here? Why? Are they still decent coaches? Which one has won a Cup recently, never mind two? Sullivan is not getting fired, guys. The Online Pittsburgh Drama Bubble is the only place that thought has ever been seriously entertained. People want him gone because of roster deployment, then fantasize about the guy who played Glass over Buchnevich (and had bad possession stats every year) or the guy who played Kunitz on the 1st PP THIS YEAR.

Unless players just hate him now, but I don’t get that sense. And Phil doesn’t count.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Are Laviolette and Cooper still here? Why? Are they still decent coaches? Which one has won a Cup recently, never mind two? Sullivan is not getting fired, guys. The Online Pittsburgh Drama Bubble is the only place that thought has ever been seriously entertained. People want him gone because of roster deployment, then fantasize about the guy who played Glass over Buchnevich (and had bad possession stats every year) or the guy who played Kunitz on the 1st PP THIS YEAR.

Unless players just hate him now, but I don’t get that sense. And Phil doesn’t count.

Apparently Murray does (allegedly).
Same for Kessel.
Same for Cole.
Same for Sprong.

Who knows who else, I wouldn't be shocked if Brass is in that group now as well.

And I honestly would not be shocked if Malkin does as well, his body language this season looks like he's just frustrated and angry and not in a "Geno is angry, awesome!" kind of way, he just looks like he's not happy at all for long stretches this season and Kessel hasn't looked like it either, Kessel has already lost his cool a few times in a short span.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Apparently Murray does (allegedly).
Same for Kessel.
Same for Cole.
Same for Sprong.

Who knows who else, I wouldn't be shocked if Brass is in that group now as well.

What?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What?

Saw it in the injury thread, supposedly (grain of salt here) Murray wasn't happy he wasn't getting starts, likely wanted to play through his stuff to turn the tides, instead Sully played DeSmith more, etc etc, something to that extent.

 

[Turin]

Saw it in the injury thread, supposedly (grain of salt here) Murray wasn't happy he wasn't getting starts, likely wanted to play through his stuff to turn the tides, instead Sully played DeSmith more, etc etc, something to that extent.

If any of that is true, which I doubt, that just suggests that Murray is a mental midget.

 

[Empoleon8771]

TIOPS isn't a reliable source, so to say that Murray is feuding with Sullivan based on that TIOPS report is stretching to say the least.

Sullivan has had personality conflicts with some players, but it hasn't resulted in any good players getting moved out. I don't think that's an actual criticism, people keep saying "what happens if he pushes out someone the Penguins can't afford to move?", which isn't a justification for that being a criticism right now. Once he pushes out someone that matters, then yeah, it's a problem. Now? He pushed away Cole, who was traded for Brassard (I didn't like moving Cole, but it's not the end of the world). He pushed away Sprong, who was traded for Pettersson (which is a move I would have made even had Sprong been playing well). Until he actually pushes away a good player, the criticism just isn't valid. It may become a problem, but it's not one right now.

Again, the things you can criticize Sullivan for are systematic problems that he's either not changing or the players aren't listening to him about. But playing one young player over another? Pushing out some depth players that he didn't like? Those aren't criticisms.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

Are Laviolette and Cooper still here? Why? Are they still decent coaches? Which one has won a Cup recently, never mind two? Sullivan is not getting fired, guys. The Online Pittsburgh Drama Bubble is the only place that thought has ever been seriously entertained. People want him gone because of roster deployment, then fantasize about the guy who played Glass over Buchnevich (and had bad possession stats every year) or the guy who played Kunitz on the 1st PP THIS YEAR.

Unless players just hate him now, but I don’t get that sense. And Phil doesn’t count.

I am not so sure he gets fired regardless of the season's results, but I would really hate to miss the playoffs this year. TBH, I am much more concerned about that...

 

[BHD]

I'm fine with missing the playoffs if it makes management and coaching staff (if they're still here) rethink things.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I'm fine with missing the playoffs if it makes management and coaching staff (if they're still here) rethink things.

I mean, I'm not okay with it if they could have went a different direction in the current year and choose not to. Sure we picked up Pearson for Hags and that's fine and trading Sprong is even okay. Are these moves that make the Pens better? Maybe a bit.

But reality is we have a systematic problem. If the players cannot execute the system or if they are not given any structure and we continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, something has to give. Making in year adjustments, besides line combinations, is what needs to happen here.

My question is, are the players not executing because they can't execute or is it because the system is flawed to a degree that it is easily countered and beaten by literally any team? I think it's a combination of both.

Don't get me wrong, JR is implicit in this. His moves haven't quite panned out to date. TBH, I feel like the tail is wagging the dog here or there is a serious disconnect between GM and coach.

One thing for sure, we only have a few more weeks to start on our move to a winning streak if there is any hope of making the playoffs.

 

[Pens x]

The combo of Sully and JR is deadly right now. JR has utterly failed since we won the cup. Sully ran Cole out of town and now Sprong. He would have run a Kessel out of here if JR was made a good offer. Sully has a short shelf life and the time has come to move on. However, I have almost no faith in ownership to fire him this season, so we are stuck.

I just hope this doesn’t turn into 2010-2014 when sully and JR still have jobs in 3 years because of what they did 5 years ago.

I blame JR for about 65% and Sully 35%. Our prospect cupboard is completely bare.

 

[ronduguayshair]

I mean, I'm not okay with it if they could have went a different direction in the current year and choose not to. Sure we picked up Pearson for Hags and that's fine and trading Sprong is even okay. Are these moves that make the Pens better? Maybe a bit.

But reality is we have a systematic problem. If the players cannot execute the system or if they are not given any structure and we continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, something has to give. Making in year adjustments, besides line combinations, is what needs to happen here.

My question is, are the players not executing because they can't execute or is it because the system is flawed to a degree that it is easily countered and beaten by literally any team? I think it's a combination of both.

Don't get me wrong, JR is implicit in this. His moves haven't quite panned out to date. TBH, I feel like the tail is wagging the dog here or there is a serious disconnect between GM and coach.

One thing for sure, we only have a few more weeks to start on our move to a winning streak if there is any hope of making the playoffs.

What specially is wrong with Sullivan’s system?

Nobody can give me a good answer. Remember we won cups two of three years. He’s the most successful pens coach ever.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why do the players deserve 0% of the blame? Hell, I think the players not playing to their abilities is the biggest reason for the Penguins struggles this year. It's not JR or Sullivan's fault that Malkin doesn't have an ES goal since before Halloween. It's not JR or Sullivan's fault that Brassard has been a ghost here. It's not JR or Sullivan's fault that Rust fell off a cliff as soon as he got an extension. It's not JR and Sullivan's fault that Murray fell off a cliff as soon as Fleury left.

Rutherford deserves blame for the structure of the defense and somewhat for the bottom-6 forwards (the bottom-6 shouldn't be bad on paper). Sullivan deserves blame for the systematic problems that have plagued the team and making poor lineup decisions. That doesn't add up to 100% of the blame. I have it 50% on the players and 25% each for Sullivan and JR.

 

[ColePens]

TIOPS isn't a reliable source, so to say that Murray is feuding with Sullivan based on that TIOPS report is stretching to say the least.

Sullivan has had personality conflicts with some players, but it hasn't resulted in any good players getting moved out. I don't think that's an actual criticism, people keep saying "what happens if he pushes out someone the Penguins can't afford to move?", which isn't a justification for that being a criticism right now. Once he pushes out someone that matters, then yeah, it's a problem. Now? He pushed away Cole, who was traded for Brassard (I didn't like moving Cole, but it's not the end of the world). He pushed away Sprong, who was traded for Pettersson (which is a move I would have made even had Sprong been playing well). Until he actually pushes away a good player, the criticism just isn't valid. It may become a problem, but it's not one right now.

Again, the things you can criticize Sullivan for are systematic problems that he's either not changing or the players aren't listening to him about. But playing one young player over another? Pushing out some depth players that he didn't like? Those aren't criticisms.

TIOPS had like one deadline monster year back in 2007 or something and they have been soooooooooooo brutal since. I'll chalk that up under "wanting hits" and move about my business.

 

[BHD]

I mean, I'm not okay with it if they could have went a different direction in the current year and choose not to. Sure we picked up Pearson for Hags and that's fine and trading Sprong is even okay. Are these moves that make the Pens better? Maybe a bit.

But reality is we have a systematic problem. If the players cannot execute the system or if they are not given any structure and we continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, something has to give. Making in year adjustments, besides line combinations, is what needs to happen here.

My question is, are the players not executing because they can't execute or is it because the system is flawed to a degree that it is easily countered and beaten by literally any team? I think it's a combination of both.

Don't get me wrong, JR is implicit in this. His moves haven't quite panned out to date. TBH, I feel like the tail is wagging the dog here or there is a serious disconnect between GM and coach.

One thing for sure, we only have a few more weeks to start on our move to a winning streak if there is any hope of making the playoffs.

I'm fine with Hags/Pearson and Sprong/Petterson, but those moves are more like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. As of right now, management and the coaching staff don't appear to be on the same page.

 

[Andy99]

The Pens are not a fast team anymore but they try to play (still) like they are...there's both roster makeup and systemic problems with this...It's not for lack of trying by the players...they are not as good at doing what's needed to be successful in today's NHL and matchup with teams like COL...yes, there are players that aren't playing up to their potential, but that happens with most teams every year...the only player that does that where it has a SIGNIFICANT impact on the wins-losses is the goaltender...so Murray being well below what he needs to be is the signal biggest player factor in the Pens problems to date...otherwise it's a combination of roster (older, stupid, slower, which is not necessarily foot speed) and a system that hasn't addressed the realities of this roster...for example, Sully tries to insulate the defense/goaltending by playing a soft zone, which has some negative effect on transition offense...however, maybe we should be trying to be more offensive given the problems...why not try to play aggressive pressure D and take the body, thereby forcing more TOs and see if our skill can find a way to translate those into goals like we did in 2017? Just asking, because people who defend Sully want to know what he can do...there's something else to try

 

[Coastal Kev]

If JR had any inclination of firing Sullivan, I don't believe he would have traded Sprong yesterday. IF so, then JR is very shortsighted, which is possible. I believe Sully gets the year and the Pens will adjust after the season.