The All Encompassing Tank/Rebuild/Tankers GDT Thread III

[Teeder9]

They have SMS notifications as well. Did they lock down SMS too? There's also email notifications on Sportsnet.

No idea to be honest. I can make and receive calls, use a work app to log in info, but there's no browser. I could buy my own phone I guess but I'm a cheap pos

 

[Standardly]

or he wants his team to perform well? to show some get up and go? to have passion?

what the heck did you want him to do, fist pump after every missed chance?

well, I'd like to see Buffalo's G.M or Arizona's g.m. Arizona's g.m was interviewed by tsn the other day, and he sounded quite happy about rebuilding and this being the absolute right year to rebuild. Make your own translation of that.


Yeah, it's great for him to want the leafs to succeed. I'd rather see zero emotion coming from him. He should be looking long-term/big picture outlook. The short-term outlook has been going on for 9 years.

 

[Daisy Jane]

well, I'd like to see Buffalo's G.M or Arizona's g.m. Arizona's g.m was interviewed by tsn the other day, and he sounded quite happy about rebuilding and this being the absolute right year to rebuild. Make your own translation of that.


Yeah, it's great for him to want the leafs to succeed. I'd rather see zero emotion coming from him. He should be looking long-term/big picture outlook. The short-term outlook has been going on for 9 years.

here is the thing.
Buffalo was out of it two years ago.
Arizona was out of it pretty early on.
we were out of it less than 31 days ago - after the man said we're watching you this is all on you etc.

but whatever read into whatever you want as you will

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

There's a caveat to getting McDavid here, and that's the fact that if the Leafs know they have the number 1 pick there is no way in hell they trade Kessel or Phaneuf at the draft, not when they know they're getting a guy who everyone expects will be in the league right away.

The time to trade Kessel and Phaneuf is now....The Leafs need to get rid of several players if they truly want to tank...It's just a matter of time until this group goes on a run---which will knock them out of the McDavid sweepstakes...Yes they'll have a Hail Mary's chance via the lottery at any draft spot (if they don't make the playoffs) but a top 5 position will at least give them a legit shot to take home the prize.

 

[egd27]

It's funny to see so many here finally come around and realizing the huge mistakes this franchise made 5 years ago.

I was laughed at when I said the Kessel trade would set this team back at least 5 years (probably longer). People didn't like the idea of doing a true rebuild as they were only "a few players away" - even though I said it was the only way to go.

How we have many embracing the tank... and wanting to get rid of Kessel to help rebuild.

Just think how much further ahead this team would've been if they made the right (and obvious) choice back then.

This team has no chance of being a true contender until at least 2020 - and that's if most things work in their favor and they have a little luck. But realistically, 2023 is more probable if things go their way.

I told ya so.

So it was the Kessel trade? The other two dozen decisions by management had no impact?

If we just had Seguin and Hamilton, all would be fine.

I find that view entirely too simplistic.

 

[Orfieus]

So it was the Kessel trade? The other two dozen decisions by management had no impact?

If we just had Seguin and Hamilton, all would be fine.

I find that view entirely too simplistic.

At the very least we would have had a **** ton more top 10 draft picks then we do now. Trading a top 10 draft pick is never, ever the right move...ever.

Toronto's future would most certainly been better off if we had not traded for Kessel.

 

[NiL8r87]

At the very least we would have had a **** ton more top 10 draft picks then we do now. Trading a top 10 draft pick is never, ever the right move...ever.

Toronto's future would most certainly been better off if we had not traded for Kessel.

Ask the Oilers how well that's gone.

Our major problem is an inability to sign FA talent, getting ripped off on the ones we do sign and poor drafting in the later rounds.

 

[berklon]

So it was the Kessel trade? The other two dozen decisions by management had no impact?

If we just had Seguin and Hamilton, all would be fine.

I find that view entirely too simplistic.

No, it's not just the Kessel trade. But that one trade alone set the team back 5 years.
It's also indicative of the mentality of the organization - to look for quick fixes instead of building from the ground up through the draft. As soon as that trade was made - I knew this team just screwed themselves for many years because it represented their strategy.

For those who praise Kessel, you want to make a bet that the Leafs will get less back for him than they gave up for him in the first place?

 

[King Leaf]

ah yes, the old

"don't even think of questioning this, it's handled by folks with a great rep"

you mean like standard $ poors , moodies ,that kind of trust our rep folks?

the ones that rated all those credit default swaps?

that almost brought down the entire world financial system?

Those are credit rating agencies dude, not accounting firms haha

You are right though, accounting firms do have their share of scandals. But it's really risky to do something unethical as an accounting firm, it really damages your reputation. Google Arthur Andersen for more info. Firms can't afford to be caught cheating the system, especially on a public stage. Easy way to lose revenue.

 

[Stephen]

Ask the Oilers how well that's gone.

Our major problem is an inability to sign FA talent, getting ripped off on the ones we do sign and poor drafting in the later rounds.

Why do all uneducated fans point to the Oilers when they want to discredit the benefits of drafting high and drafting in general? Go ask Tampa Bay and the Islanders how they enjoyed drafting Stamkos, Tavares, Hedman, etc.

Teams screw up in free agency all the time. Go ask Detroit how they enjoyed Stephen Weiss. The problem remains we don't have a good homegrown core and leadership group to bring free agents into. That goes back to poor drafting and poor franchise building blocks in Dion and Phil.

 

[King Leaf]

They do. I can't confirm who does it now, but in the past it was PricewaterhouseCoopers (who also handles OLG lotteries)

Oh really? I swear I was watching the draft lottery on TSN a couple years ago, or maybe it was last year, and it was just Bettman and the 5 GMs with a lottery pick. No one else was there, but I mayb be remembering wrong. If that's the case Im not overly worried. Obviously it's still possible, but enough of a stretch that I'd feel like a conspiracist believing it.

 

[Highlander23]

Ask the Oilers how well that's gone.

Our major problem is an inability to sign FA talent, getting ripped off on the ones we do sign and poor drafting in the later rounds.

Actually, that's not true. believe it or not, i saw a stat the other day that states that the leafs are one of the best teams drafting NHL players in the later rounds. The problem is that we end up with bottom liners, average players.

The problem as i see it, is that we trade a lot of 2nd/3rd rounders. we have to stop doing that and collect as many of them as possible since there is a lot of talent in there !!

 

[Swayze*]

Ask the Oilers how well that's gone.

Our major problem is an inability to sign FA talent, getting ripped off on the ones we do sign and poor drafting in the later rounds.

Are the oilers the only team to ever rebuild?

 

[NiL8r87]

Why do all uneducated fans point to the Oilers when they want to discredit the benefits of drafting high and drafting in general? Go ask Tampa Bay and the Islanders how they enjoyed drafting Stamkos, Tavares, Hedman, etc.

Teams screw up in free agency all the time. Go ask Detroit how they enjoyed Stephen Weiss. The problem remains we don't have a good homegrown core and leadership group to bring free agents into. That goes back to poor drafting and poor franchise building blocks in Dion and Phil.

I'm not trying to discredit high drafting, but good teams require more. The Oilers have a complete inability to supplement their core. In our case, you're right, the core isn't good enough. But I highly doubt that this team with Seguin and Hamilton instead of Kessel would be doing much better. Our problems go beyond a lack of a core. We just have a lack of everything.

 

[Trapper]

Are the oilers the only team to ever rebuild?

No but they are the only team that make us feel better. Colorado/Florida/NYI are all above us now. Buffalo will be watched closely so we can either compare ourselves to not being them, or quietly move on.
What people forget is we acquired Kessel in 2009 as a 22 year old.
The Oilers drafted Hall in 2010 as an 18 year old. If Kessel was 22, the conversation would be different.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Oh really? I swear I was watching the draft lottery on TSN a couple years ago, or maybe it was last year, and it was just Bettman and the 5 GMs with a lottery pick. No one else was there, but I mayb be remembering wrong. If that's the case Im not overly worried. Obviously it's still possible, but enough of a stretch that I'd feel like a conspiracist believing it.

that's how i thought it was done too.
no the real draft is done with the firm, then they do the other stuff for teevee

 

[Daisy Jane]

since this thread is basically full, let's move it over here:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=96515681#post96515681

 

[leafstilldeath*]

DELETE here

 

[Stats01]

Ask the Oilers how well that's gone.

Our major problem is an inability to sign FA talent, getting ripped off on the ones we do sign and poor drafting in the later rounds.

So out of all this mess for the past 6-7 years you're conclusion is that if we are able to sign free agents and draft better in the later rounds we will be on our way??

This team has issues that go beyond free agency. Our ability to be able to consistently sign cap killing contracts and putting our priority into free agency to begin with has gotten us into trouble. Trading our draft picks is another one. We need to ignore free agency for the most part for the next while.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

I saw something that was very very scary for the tanker hopefuls in the Philly game......



did anyone see that clip of Shanahan? He was at the edge of his seat hoping for leaf goals, and being disappointed after misses. It was video taped.


This tells me he too is an idiot. He's hoping they score...to win....to get a worse draft position? Does he not understand the cylce of mediocrity for the past 9 years? Does he not understand that being being 12 points back of a playoff spot in the era of 3 point games makes it impossible to make the playoffs? Does he not understand that his team has 25 losses and teams that have 30+ losses over the last 9 years probably have a 1% chance of making the playoffs? I can only recall of a few teams that have.


He doesn't have a clear vision of what's going on or what. What the heck is this mess? How can 70-80% of the fans sit back and accept the losing (for the greater purpose of finally drafting really high), but the President of the Club be as oblivious as a 10 year old boy just hoping for a win?


I just asked a million questions, but seeing that guy's reaction last night had me worried.


It's funny, most people seem to love Kadri and Rielly out of everyone. Well, both are the only 2 guys the leafs drafted themselves in the top 7 of the draft.

Yup saw that tooo..... I was like Shanny bro what you doin?

this morning I had another idea why shanny was behaving like that: Shanny wants scrubs on the team to do well so its easy for him to trade them

 

[Purity*]

Carlyle's resume without Neidermayer, Pronger, and prime Giggy is a clear indication of him as a coach when about the same roster does serious damage with Boudreau.

Anywho, as for what we expected when Carlyle got fired!

1. Corsi numbers to improve (they have)
2. Start giving less shots and less goals against (it has don't count EN GA or shootout victories); but did not foresee a scoring drought when shots are hitting the posts or goalies are making unbelievable saves while our goalies are giving up goals from 150 foot away. At present Murphy's Law is in full effect as far as the Leafs are concerned.
3. Most importantly, we did not want the management to bring in Carlyle type of players at the cost of the team's future when Carlyle was going to get fired later anyway... (thank god it didn't happen this season, although Bolland+Clarkson damage has already happened)
4. Expect that after Carlyle is gone finally this management sees that its the players and gets rid of the flawed core: If Bozak, Lupul, Dion, are still Leafs next season then its a big worry. Bozak+Lupul shouldn't be leafs post trade deadline. Dion dealt in the off-season. Also, pending UFAs either sign before deadline or trade them for picks. We CANNOT AFFORD TO LET ASSETS WALK FOR FREE!
5. CHANGE has to come and fast!


All of the above is what we expect after Carlyle firing.

This team was total dog-poop under Carlyle, LOL @ the people acting like we'd be a playoff contender if we still had him as coach. This losing streak goes on if Carlyle is here or not. Some people have a real short memory around here. Coulda been last year too where we lost 12 of our last 14 to plummet out of the playoffs as well. Carlyle did some real to damage to this team advocating the Grabovski buyout and the Clarkson signing and the Bolland trade. Like you said, the corsi and shot differential have improved lots. We'll probably be able to develop a proper system for our rebuild.

 

[Jes5ant]

Does nobody understand that these people have pride in their work? Of course the players want to win. Of Course Shanahan wants to win. Nobody wants to be seen as a failure. If we were in their posistion we would be doing the same thing.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Actually, that's not true. believe it or not, i saw a stat the other day that states that the leafs are one of the best teams drafting NHL players in the later rounds. The problem is that we end up with bottom liners, average players.

The problem as i see it, is that we trade a lot of 2nd/3rd rounders. we have to stop doing that and collect as many of them as possible since there is a lot of talent in there !!

You're right...I think most of the people who grade drafting use 'games played in the NHL' as a measurement of success...I don't consider a 3rd-4th line player who has ammassed a lot of games in the NHL as a great success...The Leafs have a lot of bottom 6 players (and 5-6 d-men) in their prospect pool currently.

The good teams accumulate top 6 players.

 

[NiL8r87]

So out of all this mess for the past 6-7 years you're conclusion is that if we are able to sign free agents and draft better in the later rounds we will be on our way??

This team has issues that go beyond free agency. Our ability to be able to consistently sign cap killing contracts and putting our priority into free agency to begin with has gotten us into trouble. Trading our draft picks is another one. We need to ignore free agency for the most part for the next while.

Absolutely we need to stay out of free agency. When we needed to get in on free agency though, we did an awful job. Beauchemin, Komisarek, Clarkson, Robidas, Finger. None of them have worked out.

When we needed to draft well in 2008, 2009 and 2010 which is around the age range where those players would be contributing to the team, we ended up with 3 write-offs other than Kadri.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

This team was total dog-poop under Carlyle, LOL @ the people acting like we'd be a playoff contender if we still had him as coach. This losing streak goes on if Carlyle is here or not. Some people have a real short memory around here. Coulda been last year too where we lost 12 of our last 14 to plummet out of the playoffs as well. Carlyle did some real to damage to this team advocating the Grabovski buyout and the Clarkson signing and the Bolland trade. Like you said, the corsi and shot differential have improved lots. We'll probably be able to develop a proper system for our rebuild.

First, changing a system on the fly in the season is very hard especially when the team is absolutely sucking and has practically zero confidence (i would say negative confidence).

Second, I don't see any line getting hemmed in or losing any possession battle consistently under Horachek. Remember Horachek didn't have a full training camp ( not that it would have mattered with some scrubs on the team).

Carlyle was definitely the problem; if people don't see that then its worthy