Prospect Info: The 2020 Entry NHL Draft Thread

[S E P H]

Oh no, not Lundell to the Wild.

That's why I did it, makes so much sense.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Thanks for posting! That ending was so cringy and plays into the stereotype of women reporters/interviewers.

She isn't there the whole interview and shows up in the last minute to ask about his name... tf?

Yeah, seems weird that they wouldn’t just have all of them involved in the interview form the beginning.

 

[Ararana]

Yeah, seems weird that they wouldn’t just have all of them involved in the interview form the beginning.

They have a running morning show where they switch sports. She popped on early for the basketball segment and clearly didn't know anything about hockey and had to ask about his name.

 

[McMetal]

This is what really matters imo, how he projects to fit with the Avs.

The only thing I don’t agree with is the bolded. Makar is not a risk taker. He’s just extremely good at knowing when to turn it up ice. There were very few times I can remember where Makar was caught up ice trying to make a play and the other team capitalized.

He is not a consistently good defender yet, because he still needs to improve his positional play in his own zone. His aggressive offensive play has never negatively affected his defence, in fact it’s probably helped it.

I definitely agree that Byram should fit really well with Makar long-term though. Or Timmins (if he continues to progress) for that matter. I think Byram’s IQ/passing will be a big asset to the Top-4.

Makar hasn't taken a lot of risks this year, true. But just imagine what he could do if he felt freer to do so because he had a really high-end D partner.

I'm higher on Graves than most here, but even I would classify him as a good #4D. If Byram can become a legit top pairing player, Makar would be free to take chances knowing that he has a guy who can cover him if he tries to do something aggressive.

 

[avsfan09]

Pretty much echoes my thoughts as well. He's like a more talented, more raw, and more cocky version of Matt Dumba for me.

Not to sound real critical but the same Matt Dumba who hit 50 pts and can hit like a truck? Why couldn’t that more talented version hit a # 1 ceiling? I do think his more likely peak is a #2 but ceiling wise I wouldn’t think that description wouldn’t pass for a prime Subban.

 

[henchman21]

Not to sound real critical but the same Matt Dumba who hit 50 pts and can hit like a truck? Why couldn’t that more talented version hit a # 1 ceiling? I do think his more likely peak is a #2 but ceiling wise I wouldn’t think that description wouldn’t pass for a prime Subban.

Dumba had one season where he hit 50 points. His highest outside of that is 34 and was pacing~28 this year. People far too often just look at peaks and career years. Every so often, a player has a career year where everything goes right, but this isn't normally who they are as a player. I mean, nobody really thinks Erik Gustafsson is a 60 point defender just because he did it once. Just like Cheechoo wasn't an elite goal scorer depsite having 2 really good seasons out of the lockout and a Richard Trophy to his name.

 

[avsfan09]

Dumba had one season where he hit 50 points. His highest outside of that is 34 and was pacing~28 this year. People far too often just look at peaks and career years. Every so often, a player has a career year where everything goes right, but this isn't normally who they are as a player. I mean, nobody really thinks Erik Gustafsson is a 60 point defender just because he did it once. Just like Cheechoo wasn't an elite goal scorer depsite having 2 really good seasons out of the lockout and a Richard Trophy to his name.

I had no idea he hasn’t hit it again. I assumed he never stagnated but thanks.

 

[Richard88]

Has anyone heard of this guy before? Looks like he could be a nice late-round Russian boom-or-bust target.

 

[Balthazar]

 

[Pokecheque]

Just finished the DNVR mock draft podcast, they had the Avs taking Brendan Brisson, and I think he was out of the first round in the TOOA podcast, which is interesting since Rudo was in on both pods.

 

[Hasbro]

Just finished the DNVR mock draft podcast, they had the Avs taking Brendan Brisson, and I think he was out of the first round in the TOOA podcast, which is interesting since Rudo was in on both pods.

The quarantine must have forced him to grow out that LEGO man hair.

 

[Pokecheque]

The quarantine must have forced him to grow out that LEGO man hair.

In the DNVR pod he did an ad for Manscaped and referred to his need for "hedge trimming" this weekend, so...

 

[Balthazar]

Rudo is a lot better now than he was for the first few months, so there's that.

 

[Hasbro]

Rudo is a lot better now than he was for the first few months, so there's that.

He used the term "Size Queen". No idea where he'd pick up such foul language.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Just finished the DNVR mock draft podcast, they had the Avs taking Brendan Brisson, and I think he was out of the first round in the TOOA podcast, which is interesting since Rudo was in on both pods.

We did choose Amirov for the Avs as a consensus on TOOA, Brisson was in the mix for the later picks too I think. Thanks for listening!

FWIW I do believe Byram has been downplayed here. And I don’t consider calling him a potential #2 an insult.

 

[Foppa2118]

FWIW I do believe Byram has been downplayed here. And I don’t consider calling him a potential #2 an insult.

Agreed. Reminds me a lot of the reaction to Makar. Both had their doubters (unnecessarily so IMO) on whether their offense would translate to the NHL.

I think a lot of that is just doubling and tripling down on beliefs at the time of the draft though. Not based on evidence after the draft.

 

[S E P H]

I think a lot of that is just doubling and tripling down on beliefs at the time of the draft though. Not based on evidence after the draft.

Doubling and tripling down to what exactly? He posted almost the same exact point total - 1.06 last year versus 1.05 this year - in almost the same exact way (a weak 1st half which eventually turned into a brilliant 2nd half), without really improving substantially in the weak area(s) of his game (like when he doesn't have the puck). A lot of my opinion about him comes from the fact that he gets spoon-fed minutes in every single part of the game, which won't translate into the NHL.

Additionally, as Hench mentioned sometime last week his time in the WHL didn't really help because he's not only better than 98% of the league, he's allowed to do whatever he wants because of how superiorly talented he is to the rest of the talent pool. It truly doesn't help, especially to Byram who hasn't really played in a structured system because Giants need him to be in IDGAF mode due to not being a very good team. No one is doubling down, there just hasn't been enough evidence on the contrary to overturn opinions. That's as simple as it is, not some tinfoil conspiracy that Hench and I are secretly Duck fans wanting Byram to fail just to prove a point about Zegras of anything...

We did choose Amirov for the Avs as a consensus on TOOA, Brisson was in the mix for the later picks too I think. Thanks for listening!

FWIW I do believe Byram has been downplayed here. And I don’t consider calling him a potential #2 an insult.

Not sure if I see Amirov there in the final third of the 1st round, he had quite a productive season and there is most likely a team who has fallen in love with him in the mid-tier of the first round. The Russian factor still exists, but if he falls I think it will be more due to the fact that scouts value this years CHL draft class, especially the OHL where a lot of their players are scattered throughout 20 to 50.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Doubling and tripling down to what exactly? He posted almost the same exact point total - 1.06 last year versus 1.05 this year - in almost the same exact way (a weak 1st half which eventually turned into a brilliant 2nd half), without really improving substantially in the weak area(s) of his game (like when he doesn't have the puck). A lot of my opinion about him comes from the fact that he gets spoon-fed minutes in every single part of the game, which won't translate into the NHL.

Additionally, as Hench mentioned sometime last week his time in the WHL didn't really help because he's not only better than 98% of the league, he's allowed to do whatever he wants because of how superiorly talented he is to the rest of the talent pool. It truly doesn't help, especially to Byram who hasn't really played in a structured system because Giants need him to be in IDGAF mode due to not being a very good team. No one is doubling down, there just hasn't been enough evidence on the contrary to overturn opinions. That's as simple as it is, not some tinfoil conspiracy that Hench and I are secretly Duck fans wanting Byram to fail just to prove a point about Zegras of anything...


Not sure if I see Amirov there at the final third of the 1st round, he had quite a productive season and there is most likely a team who has fallen in love with him in the mid-tier of the first round. The Russian factor still exists, but if he falls I think it will be more due to the fact that scouts value this years CHL draft class, especially the OHL where a lot of their players are scattered throughout 20 to 50.

Hench is a Jackets fan. I thought that was well known already... jk

The reality is that we’re not really going to know what Byram is until he plays at the NHL level.

I wouldn’t trade Byram for Zegras. Even if he turns into the better player, a defenceman of Byram’s promise is more important to the Avs than another forward. Particularly with Newhook lurking.

 

[S E P H]

Hench is a Jackets fan. I thought that was well known already... jk

The reality is that we’re not really going to know what Byram is until he plays at the NHL level.

I wouldn’t trade Byram for Zegras. Even if he turns into the better player, a defenceman of Byram’s promise is more important to the Avs than another forward. Particularly with Newhook lurking.

Just wait until Jackets trade Dubois for Zegras.

Agreed where I think Zegras is still the more intelligent pick, but I wouldn't trade Byram for Zegras or anything simply because Avs plans have evolved around Makar and Byram since like two summers ago.

 

[Hasbro]

Agreed. Reminds me a lot of the reaction to Makar. Both had their doubters (unnecessarily so IMO) on whether their offense would translate to the NHL.

There was soemthing else about Makar too.

 

[Foppa2118]

Doubling and tripling down to what exactly? He posted almost the same exact point total - 1.06 last year versus 1.05 this year - in almost the same exact way (a weak 1st half which eventually turned into a brilliant 2nd half), without really improving substantially in the weak area(s) of his game (like when he doesn't have the puck). A lot of my opinion about him comes from the fact that he gets spoon-fed minutes in every single part of the game, which won't translate into the NHL.

Additionally, as Hench mentioned sometime last week his time in the WHL didn't really help because he's not only better than 98% of the league, he's allowed to do whatever he wants because of how superiorly talented he is to the rest of the talent pool. It truly doesn't help, especially to Byram who hasn't really played in a structured system because Giants need him to be in IDGAF mode due to not being a very good team. No one is doubling down, there just hasn't been enough evidence on the contrary to overturn opinions. That's as simple as it is, not some tinfoil conspiracy that Hench and I are secretly Duck fans wanting Byram to fail just to prove a point about Zegras of anything...

Doubling and tripling down in the sense that any concerns about Byram now, are basically the same concerns on draft day. Since there hasn't really been any evidence to prove those concerns right since then. As you mentioned he had a very similar offensive season.

The difference is that I haven't seen many share your opinion that he didn't improve away from the puck. It's actually the first time I've heard such comments, since most of the commentary has been about how the Avs asked him to focus on his defense/overall game, and he's done just that. Learn how to balance the offense with the defense. Which is the whole point of going back to junior. They didn't send him back to learn how to create offense.

I just see a lot of the same reactions to Byram that I saw about Makar. Maybe some of those concerns will prove right with Byram, but just like with Makar, there's always some reason why he shouldn't get credit for the success he has.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Byram proved he could defend at the WJC. Was on the ice for only 2 goals against including on the pk, played over 9 minutes in the gold medal winning third period.

 

[S E P H]

Doubling and tripling down in the sense that any concerns about Byram now, are basically the same concerns on draft day. Since there hasn't really been any evidence to prove those concerns right since then. As you mentioned he had a very similar offensive season.

And the point is that won't really change anybody's opinions here about him, so your original post is still confusing. The blokes who still think he will be a #1 defender still share that opinion and the ones who think he's less than that still share that opinion.

The difference is that I haven't seen many share your opinion that he didn't improve away from the puck. It's actually the first time I've heard such comments, since most of the commentary has been about how the Avs asked him to focus on his defense/overall game, and he's done just that.

And what evidence shows he's done that?

Learn how to balance the offense with the defense. Which is the whole point of going back to junior. They didn't send him back to learn how to create offense. I just see a lot of the same reactions to Byram that I saw about Makar. Maybe some of those concerns will prove right with Byram, but just like with Makar, there's always some reason why he shouldn't get credit for the success he has.

The problem was never for him to learn offence, but you're undervaluing how much freedom he gets from the coaching staff,. There's going to be a learning adjustment from him when he gets to the pros in terms of playing within a system. He's really an individual player when it comes to how he plays the game and he's going to be leashed up by the coaching staff.

Byram isn't Makar nor do they share the same mentality to when it comes to hockey or improving. There is a chance that both become great defenders and there's a chance that one does and the other one doesn't. I would agree with you if we're talking about Makar's brother as each offspring would share similar genetic makeup and similar environments when growing up, but we're talking about two completely different lads. The lads will end up as two completely different players, as mentioned before both could end up being good. However, thinking because player x shares a similar reaction of fans for player y doesn't dictate for that reason player y should have the same trajectory in talent in comparison to player x. That's hocus pocus stuff there.

As I said in one of my posts last week, I suggest we're using microscopes here to try to find issues or optimism in a player who has good upside and should be atleast an NHL quality player. I think a lot of this is just fluff stuff to get us through the day.

Byram proved he could defend at the WJC. Was on the ice for only 2 goals against including on the pk, played over 9 minutes in the gold medal winning third period.

Meh, not that Byram played bad because he did not, but if we're going to use WJC to determine a players career thn Jack Campbell is a Vezina-calibre starting goaler somewhere for some team.

 

[Foppa2118]

And the point is that won't really change anybody's opinions here about him, so your original post is still confusing. The blokes who still think he will be a #1 defender still share that opinion and the ones who think he's less than that still share that opinion.

I wasn't attempting to change anyones opinion. That's almost always a futile attempt on HF. Maybe I didn't fully explain my original post enough though.

The point I was making was basically that there hasn't been any additional negatives (apart from his slow start that he made up for this year) since the draft to give credence to the argument that his offense won't translate well to the NHL. It's the same argument made on draft day. That wasn't meant to be a snarky pot shot. My apologies if it sounded that way.

Just to be clear, I don't consider your opinion on this outlandish, or unreasonable or anything like that. I'm sure you acknowledge Byram is a good prospect. We just have a small difference of opinion on how good. And also to be clear, even though I may not always agree with you, I've always found that you're one of the more thoughtful posters here. You don't just post hot takes, you spend time thinking about things, and you also take the time to put your thoughts into words.

And what evidence shows he's done that?


The problem was never for him to learn offence, but you're undervaluing how much freedom he gets from the coaching staff,. There's going to be a learning adjustment from him when he gets to the pros in terms of playing within a system. He's really an individual player when it comes to how he plays the game and he's going to be leashed up by the coaching staff.

Byram isn't Makar nor do they share the same mentality to when it comes to hockey or improving. There is a chance that both become great defenders and there's a chance that one does and the other one doesn't. I would agree with you if we're talking about Makar's brother as each offspring would share similar genetic makeup and similar environments when growing up, but we're talking about two completely different lads. The lads will end up as two completely different players, as mentioned before both could end up being good. However, thinking because player x shares a similar reaction of fans for player y doesn't dictate for that reason player y should have the same trajectory in talent in comparison to player x. That's hocus pocus stuff there.

I don't consider the freedom Byram gets from the coaching staff, or the fact he plays a lot of minutes, something that should take away credit for the success he has. Good players play a lot of minutes, and in today's NHL, PMD's get a lot of freedom. Both of those will translate to a high degree with the Avs.

Just look at the freedom and minutes Makar got as a rookie? The Avs are going to do the same for Byram (though less PP time) because that's how Bednar and Pratt want to run their defense. They want ALL their defenseman involved in the play as much as possible. They harp on it all the time.

IMO it's a big reason why Girard's slump didn't last very long, and he became more aggressive in jumping down low in the O zone than he ever was before. G went from having very little confidence to start the season, to having very high confidence to play aggressive and make plays, in just a couple months. That's because of how good the coaches are at coaching their defenseman (with Z as the outlier).

Byram won't be leashed up, he'll never be given a leash with the Avs. That's not how they roll, no matter who the coach is. He's going to benefit from that same freedom and confidence boosting talks to play "his game" that Barrie, Girard, and Makar were given as young defenseman.

Believe me, I know there's going to be a learning adjustment to the pros. This may surprise you, but I'm not all that confident he'll make the Avs out of camp next year. I think he can, and I'm looking forward to seeing how much he improved and settled down since last pre-season, but he looked fairly overwhelmed in his brief stint last year IMO. His upper body was also quite lanky and showed he needed to bulk up a bit as a defenseman. It's possible he may need just a bit more time and seasoning. I think we forget sometimes he's pretty young for his draft year. He doesn't turn 19 until mid June.

As I said in one of my posts last week, I suggest we're using microscopes here to try to find issues or optimism in a player who has good upside and should be atleast an NHL quality player. I think a lot of this is just fluff stuff to get us through the day.

I didn't see that post, so I can't comment on what I'm sure is a more detailed outline of why you believe that, but I see it the exact opposite.

I see a really good prospect in Byram under an extreme microscope, looking for faults that aren't necessarily there, and being over critical about them. Very similar to Makar. That's just my opinion though, and I know you don't agree.

Meh, not that Byram played bad because he did not, but if we're going to use WJC to determine a players career thn Jack Campbell is a Vezina-calibre starting goaler somewhere for some team.

This is what I mean though, by there's always some reason he doesn't get credit for playing well. I'm not trying to pick on you with this SEPH. I wasn't referring to you or anyone else specifically with what I said. I was just saying that his doubters are basically making the same arguments from draft day, because not much has changed. I didn't call them dumb or thoughtless arguments. Just that I didn't agree with them.

But you said he hadn't improved defensively, and then asked where the evidence was that he had. TV did exactly this when she pointed out that even though Byram averaged more ice time than anyone on the team, he was only on the ice for 2 goals against at the WJC, including the PK, and his coaches relied on his defensive ability to be on the ice for 9 minutes during the third period of the gold medal game.

That's pretty impressive to not give up more than two goals, and to be on the ice that long at such a crucial time. It's the most important period of the championship game, between the two best international junior teams, consisting of the best junior players in the world. That's not a "meh" type of situation, that's very solid proof that he was playing well defensively against very tough competition, and that others view him as more defensively sound than you do. Even if you don't agree with them.

Which is why I was drawing a comparison to Makar. There's always some reason why Byram shouldn't get credit for his success it seems. If he has a slow start after being sent down, it's because his numbers last year were a fluke. If he puts up huge numbers after his slow start, it's because he plays a bunch of minutes. If he finishes the season with basically the same point per game pace as last year, while working to improve his overall game, then he didn't improve defensively. If he's only on the ice for 2 goals against at the WJC, and his coaches trust him enough defensively to play 9 minutes in the third period of the most important game, then the WJC is meh.

I'm not making any declarations about what Byram will be in the NHL, and I know you're not either SEPH, but I would ask you to reconsider whether you should give Byram more credit for things like his numbers in the second half of the season, and his performance at the WJC. These are things a lot of other highly rated defenseman aren't doing, and just like with Makar, there's a reason for that success apart from the minutes he gets.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Does anyone know a good site to read draft reports for players this year? I want to get a better idea of some of the guys available for the Avs late in round one and beyond.