Thanks for Everything, Sully

[OswaldBates]

Gallant is a strong minded enough person to come in and utilize this line up better than Sullivan has with the forwards.

not if the Golden Boy doesn't like who is on his line or the system

 

[Honour Over Glory]

But with two cups instead of one.

Take out the Cups and then look at it.

You look at the playoff stats and the last few years have slowly eroded the hope he can figure it out on this team again.

 

[pistolpete11]

Not wanting to pay Sully is a huge variable here IMO. What does he have, three more years beyond this season? I think if he was up in a year from now they'd be much more likely to can him sooner.

I don't necessarily disagree with this point.

I disagree with upper management and ownership being worried about upheaval, chaos, instability from firing the coach.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't necessarily disagree with this point.

I disagree with upper management and ownership being worried about upheaval, chaos, instability from firing the coach.

I don't mean as much from a structural stand point, but more an emotional one. When coaches are fired some players may deal with it better than others. Sometimes it has a very positive affect, other times it doesn't. Shortly After the GM resigns that might be asking a bit too much.

 

[Ryder71]

Take out the Cups and then look at it.

You look at the playoff stats and the last few years have slowly eroded the hope he can figure it out on this team again.

You do realize I want him fired and have so for quite some time now, right? I just don't know how short his leash is. I think the JR debacle makes it less possible to do so anytime soon. Again, unless they completely go into a tailspin.

 

[KIRK]

I agree it won't happen yet, just not for the reasons you suggest, other than maybe not wanting to pay Sully playing a factor.

The biggest reason is because the new GM will want to pick his coach, whether that is Sully or someone new. It's what they did when they fired Shero. They let JR decide Bylsma's fate.

C'mon Pete. Timing notwithstanding, you know perfectly well Bylsma's fate was sealed well before JR was hired. They just let JR handle the formal part, which he did about twelve seconds after the ink on his contract was dry.

 

[pistolpete11]

C'mon Pete. Timing notwithstanding, you know perfectly well Bylsma's fate was sealed well before JR was hired. They just let JR handle the formal part, which he did about twelve seconds after the ink on his contract was dry.

OK, fair enough, but still, I think my point remains. They let the GM handle the HC.

 

[KIRK]

OK, fair enough, but still, I think my point remains. They let the GM handle the HC.

Yeah, but that was different. It was the offseason.

I'm still not sure IF they'll pull the trigger soon, no matter the message captain and friends have been sending on the ice, but I don't think waiting until they hire a permanent GM will be a reason if they hold off.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yeah, but that was different. It was the offseason.

I'm still not sure IF they'll pull the trigger soon, no matter the message captain and friends have been sending on the ice, but I don't think waiting until they hire a permanent GM will be a reason if they hold off.

I don't see how it being the offseason vs. mid-season changes things much. If anything, they would have been more likely to fire Bylsma themselves because they didn't have a game the next day.

But I'll say this, they won't hire a new head coach before hiring a new GM. They may ax Sully if the GM search really drags out and things get bad enough, but they would make Reirden or Vellucci interim-HC. They aren't handing out a 4 year contract to Gallant or something like that without a GM in place. They will leave that decision to the GM. As they should.

 

[KIRK]

I don't see how it being the offseason vs. mid-season changes things much. If anything, they would have been more likely to fire Bylsma themselves because they didn't have a game the next day.

But I'll say this, they won't hire a new head coach before hiring a new GM. They may ax Sully if the GM search really drags out and things get bad enough, but they would make Reirden or Vellucci interim-HC. They aren't handing out a 4 year contract to Gallant or something like that without a GM in place. They will leave that decision to the GM. As they should.

I suppose it depends upon whether you think the season can be salvaged and if it makes sense to wait 6 months to start figuring out what can be fixed and what can't (something you really can't do until after that change, just like '15 for the Pens).

 

[pistolpete11]

I suppose it depends upon whether you think the season can be salvaged and if it makes sense to wait 6 months to start figuring out what can be fixed and what can't (something you really can't do until after that change, just like '15 for the Pens).

Not sure I follow, but I think ownership and management have made it clear that they are Cup or bust with Crosby and Malkin on the roster regardless of how bad things look.

 

[Gurglesons]

Please Penguins Organization. Mercy kill Sully. This is just getting stupid.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Nothing will happen until the GM position is settled - either they decide to let Allvin finish out the season and do a full search in the summer, or they hire someone in the next couple weeks.

Even then, there is zero chance Sullivan is fired before the end of the season. If Allvin stays, he'll try some player moves first to address any needs. If a new GM is hired, that person will evaluate Sullivan the remainder of the season and then make a decision when there are the maximum number of candidates available, which is the offseason.

Personally, I don't think Sullivan is the problem. I think the Pens tried to walk before they could run this off-season, guys are pressing and overthinking, and the staff misjudged where the team was after camp.

They'll hit the reset button over the next few days. I wouldn't be surprised to see some structure changes to special teams and a more aggressive forecheck like you saw early tonight. The only hiccup is you need solid D to forecheck like that and the Pens aren't healthy.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Please Penguins Organization. Mercy kill Sully. This is just getting stupid.

BuT BaCk 2 BaCk CuPz...

 

[HandshakeLine]

staff misjudged where the team was after camp.

But that is pretty much the bread and butter of a coach, no? Sullivan is supposed to be the final arbitrator on how this group of players gets used, and to do that, he has properly evaluate players. Plus, he supposedly had lots of input with the former GM over the construction of the team.

I'd totally buy a lack of execution on the part of the team, or GMJR overruling Sullivan, but being able to honestly evaluate where the team is, well, that's one of the main components of Sully's job. If he can't do that or won't do that, then, again, what's the point in keeping him?

 

[BHD]

The captain is disengaged and the power play can't do anything. Sounds like two issues that preceded the last coaching change.

 

[Turin]

Sullivan is a great coach but I think he used all his remaining power in 2019 keeping that ship afloat while he could.

That said, biggest problems aren’t necessarily his fault, but the team as a whole does seem to have lost its soul.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

The captain is disengaged and the power play can't do anything. Sounds like two issues that preceded the last coaching change.

Sid looked like the best player in the world last night.

 

[BHD]

Sid looked like the best player in the world last night.

Overall, he's been average by his standards.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Overall, he's been average by his standards.

Agree, some of that can be explained by a lack of true off-season with defined start and end, inability to train like he usually would due to COVID restrictions and no real training camp. Plus age.

Doesn’t mean Sullivan is absolved, mind you, his time is still up. However!

 

[LOGiK]

I just don't get why this speed and pressure is so big with MS.... it drives me absolutely mad. It's imperfect... it wears on the players... players struggle to conform... other teams know what to expect...


It is a style of hockey that looks very nice when you have everything functioning right and you have the exact personnel at every position - BUT THE PENGUINS DO NOT... it aint working and it aint going to work sullivan!

Fire MS or just lay off this garbage go go go attack speed and pressure brand of hockey.

 

[BHD]

Agree, some of that can be explained by a lack of true off-season with defined start and end, inability to train like he usually would due to COVID restrictions and no real training camp. Plus age.

Doesn’t mean Sullivan is absolved, mind you, his time is still up. However!

He’s been hit or miss so far. Definitely getting coaching change vibes from him.

 

[Andy99]

Please Penguins Organization. Mercy kill Sully. This is just getting stupid.

time is long past up but I fear ownership doesn’t see it in the same light—they seem to love him and feel they have “their coach,” at least if you believe the words about him that were coming from JR...also, with Covid, ownership has been cheap and they won’t want to take the chance they’ll be stuck with his contract if he doesn’t get rehired...my fear is that the GM hire will be contingent on the new GM agreeing to keep Sully on as coach and he’ll be back next season...

 

[BHD]

I just don't get why this speed and pressure is so big with MS.... it drives me absolutely mad. It's imperfect... it wears on the players... players struggle to conform... other teams know what to expect...


It is a style of hockey that looks very nice when you have everything functioning right and you have the exact personnel at every position - BUT THE PENGUINS DO NOT... it aint working and it aint going to work sullivan!

Fire MS or just lay off this garbage go go go attack speed and pressure brand of hockey.

We complained about the team being too methodical under Johnston.

 

[pistolpete11]

The similarities between 2015 and now are just painfully obvious. Slow, lazy, disengaged, too old, done, cooked. We said all the same things about the stars back then. It might not be Sully's fault, but the question is no longer what they should do. It's if they will do it. Will ownership be willing to eat that contract midst the pandemic and will a new GM come in and make such a bold move right away? I have my doubts on both. I think we are stuck with him for the remainder of the season.