Thanks for Everything, Sully

[Trade]

Sullivan is a great coach but I think he used all his remaining power in 2019 keeping that ship afloat while he could.

That said, biggest problems aren’t necessarily his fault, but the team as a whole does seem to have lost its soul.

 

[Gurglesons]

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You guys are making me hate Hornqvist.

This team won 0 playoff games through 2 seasons with him.

This notion that he was some secret catalyst just waiting to be used correctly is one of the dumbest narratives around here.

Can we see Matheson be a train wreck for one full season before we destroy the trade?

 

[Turin]

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That’s definitely part of it, but I mostly mean there’s no fire with the stars. I want to see Crosby whack somebody or Geno to get angry. Something.

 

[Trade]

You guys are making me hate Hornqvist.

This team won 0 playoff games through 2 seasons for him.

Was being a lil cheeky

 

[TooManyHumans]

This team looks like a team going through the motions most nights. That is why you fire the coach. It is the only solution. You'v made multiple big trades, you've given him a roster stacked with offensive depth.

Yep. They look lifeless and lethargic for long stretches. It is clear that Sullivan's message is not getting through. It doesn't mean he is done as a coach but it sure looks like he is done with this group.

 

[Pens x]

Can we see Matheson be a train wreck for one full season before we destroy the trade?

Let’s not forget about the $1.2 mil (I know his real $ is less) cap hit of Sceviour, who is now a healthy scratch...

 

[HandshakeLine]

I was hating Hornqvist's Cult of Personality before it was cool, Pixies.

 

[Gurglesons]

Let’s not forget about the $1.2 mil (I know his real $ is less) cap hit of Sceviour, who is now a healthy scratch...

Sceviour was doing well when on the team tbh.

 

[Pens x]

Sceviour was done well when on the team tbh.

But he’s been a healthy scratch for the last 2 games, soooooo....

Cap well spent

 

[Gurglesons]

But he’s been a healthy scratch for the last 2 games, soooooo....

Which is why Sullivan should be fired.

 

[pistolpete11]

You guys are making me hate Hornqvist.

This team won 0 playoff games through 2 seasons with him.

This notion that he was some secret catalyst just waiting to be used correctly is one of the dumbest narratives around here.

Can we see Matheson be a train wreck for one full season before we destroy the trade?

Does this season count as a full season? Or we have to wait for an 82 game season? Just want to know when we can officially hate that trade.



....although I agree that Hornqvist wouldn't be the solution to this team. The issues are much deeper than that.

 

[Gurglesons]

Does this season count as a full season? Or we have to wait for an 82 game season? Just want to know when we can officially hate that trade.



....although I agree that Hornqvist wouldn't be the solution to this team. The issues are much deeper than that.

This season is fine. Hell 10 games, but like if we are going to use analytics to defend players, Matheson was relatively good the last couple games.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, as far as board-hated trades go, POJ is really one of the saving graces of this team, so I'm enjoying the Kessel trade a bit more.

 

[pistolpete11]

This season is fine. Hell 10 games, but like if we are going to use analytics to defend players, Matheson was relatively good the last couple games.

I didn't use any analytics, but I do see that Hornqvist has 7 points in 6 games, including 3G and 2A on the PP.

 

[Gurglesons]

I didn't use any analytics, but I do see that Hornqvist has 7 points in 6 games, including 3G and 2A on the PP.

Oh shit. SIGN HIM UP RIGHT NOW.

Hornqvist had 10 pts in his first 13 games last year too.

He then blew chunks after he got his third concussion in like 9 months. He also did jackshit for us in the playoffs while being paid 5 mil to help carry our third line, but that was obviously McCann's fault (despite McCann going on a tear whenever being the 3C without Hornqvist.)

Horny did a lot for this franchise. But much like Sullivan our team as structured wasn't winning with him in the same role we had used him in previously. Florida's top six wingers are not comparable to ours. Zucker, Tanev, Kapanen all play a game similar to Hornqvist. The last thing we needed was more players that need to be set up for goals.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, as far as board-hated trades go, POJ is really one of the saving graces of this team, so I'm enjoying the Kessel trade a bit more.

Yeah, funny to hear all the people upset about us trading Kessel talking about how good POJ looks.

 

[Beauner]

we can acknowledge that both of the following are true, without needing to pick sides

a) Horny was present for the past 2 playoff failures, and had some concerns that made trading him a palatable idea

b) early returns on the trade are abysmal and the team as a whole is playing worse without him

 

[Gurglesons]

we can acknowledge that both of the following are true, without needing to pick sides

a) Horny was present for the past 2 playoff failures, and had some concerns that made trading him a palatable idea

b) early returns on the trade are abysmal and the team as a whole is playing worse without him

Early returns on the trade are we saw less than 30 minutes of Matheson. If we define a trade on a game and a half of play, we're even stupider around here than I thought.

The team is playing exactly the same as they did with him. This idea that Hornqvist was the heartbeat of the team is only apt when seeing him succeed in a role he never would've had here. And when he played it in that role we still sucked. So who gives a shit.

Championship squads win again by moving on from Hornqvist's.

 

[edog37]

I love these types of threads where people can just post whatever comes to mind no matter how irrelevant it really is. Folks, you could have Scotty Bowman coaching with Bob Johnson & Al Arbour as assistants & the results would still be the same. The team core is aging out. The players don't want to execute more of a half ice trap game, so that's why Sully isn't pushing it. He'd absolutely lose the room on that one, so he's taking the middle approach. This franchise has been a country club since the first Cup years, so fail to see why anyone is surprised now. There isn't a magic pill you can take that will turn back the clock. The team is absolutely approaching the rebuild phase & it should be preparing for it accordingly. Fans need to lower their expectations.

 

[EightyOne]

I love these types of threads where people can just post whatever comes to mind no matter how irrelevant it really is. Folks, you could have Scotty Bowman coaching with Bob Johnson & Al Arbour as assistants & the results would still be the same. The team core is aging out. The players don't want to execute more of a half ice trap game, so that's why Sully isn't pushing it. He'd absolutely lose the room on that one, so he's taking the middle approach. This franchise has been a country club since the first Cup years, so fail to see why anyone is surprised now. There isn't a magic pill you can take that will turn back the clock. The team is absolutely approaching the rebuild phase & it should be preparing for it accordingly. Fans need to lower their expectations.

So you admit Sullivan is a weak voice?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

we can acknowledge that both of the following are true, without needing to pick sides

a) Horny was present for the past 2 playoff failures, and had some concerns that made trading him a palatable idea

b) early returns on the trade are abysmal and the team as a whole is playing worse without him

Pretty much where I'm at.

I don't regret dealing Hornqvist. He had to be dealt a day early as opposed to a day late, and he was a 3rd liner making ~$5.5 million to be a power play specialist on a team with a below average power play, who hasn't done a damn thing in the playoffs for years despite being labeled a "playoff warrior", yadda yadda. Also, due to his injury issues recently, contract, and age, we were never getting a great return for him. Still, a trade needed to happen.

But, the issue is that JR was the GM who traded him. A guy so brain-poisoned by his success with reclamation projects that he went out and landed a guy who is a huge question mark, makes ~$5 million, and is signed until the end of time--so if/when he ends up being a bad player, we're going to have to pay Seattle a big premium to take him off of our hands.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think this is a fair cop. But at the same time, I keep coming back to the same thing: is it worth wasting time to see if A) Sully regains the room B) finally gets the roster just how he wants it instead of figuring out how to make this roster work and C) the team gets back to Sully's game.

I don't think it's anywhere near entirely Sully's fault by any stretch of the imagination. But my point is-- does it matter? You only have a handful more seasons of serious contention barring a miracle, so look at your options to shake things up and you have to take the results as they currently are, not what is fair to Sully in a vacuum.

The Penguins have shown fight in their ability to make comebacks. Hard to argue they've tuned out the coach and are just coaching when that's happening.

Mike Johnston was fired because the Penguins were languishing in the middle of the pack and couldn't score. They were 28th in the NHL in scoring when he was canned. These Penguins are 11th in goals for and 19th in goals per game.

Here's the kicker - the Pens have 20 goals on 5-on-5, good for 7th in the NHL. They have just 4 on 5-on-4, which is 25th in the NHL.

Power play goals change the complexion of games. Fix the power play and this team suddenly looks a lot more potent. I think that's something that can still be fixed with the current personnel and staff.

 

[Beauner]

Early returns on the trade are we saw less than 30 minutes of Matheson. If we define a trade on a game and a half of play, we're even stupider around here than I thought.

The team is playing exactly the same as they did with him. This idea that Hornqvist was the heartbeat of the team is only apt when seeing him succeed in a role he never would've had here. And when he played it in that role we still sucked. So who gives a shit.

Championship squads win again by moving on from Hornqvist's.

They're playing exponentially worse and I don't even think that's something that's debatable

 

[Gold Diamond]

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I will love Patric Hornqvist till the day I die. I know why they traded him, but I still don't like it.

 

[Gurglesons]

They're playing exponentially worse and I don't even think that's something that's debatable

We were 4 - 5 - 1 in Hornqvist's last ten games here. We are currently 5 - 4 - 1.