Thanks for Everything, Sully

[LOGiK]

We complained about the team being too methodical under Johnston.

Well MJ was the relief from playing under the terror and iron fisted reign of MT.... which was pretty much needed to a certain level. They were just kids back then... jeez.

Years later, much older, but same scenario... pounding a system that does not work.... not quiet as harsh as MT (but possibly more stressful)....

Time to move on. Develop actual structure and not just mindless chase and pressure... it's very ugly on this current roster.

 

[BHD]

Time to move on. Develop actual structure and not just mindless chase and pressure... it's very ugly on this current roster.

They did for the first couple of seasons. His system, though, might have run it's course. Part of a coaching change is to spark the team. Some of the players here need that.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

We complained about the team being too methodical under Johnston.

The thing with Johnston is at first the system DID work, and really well! The problem is it was too simple and teams figured it out quickly, and to counter it Johnston went trap trap trap and it became boring and they started losing.

 

[BHD]

The thing with Johnston is at first the system DID work, and really well! The problem is it was too simple and teams figured it out quickly, and to counter it Johnston went trap trap trap and it became boring and they started losing.

And we've seen that with Trotz and Julien in recent years. They figured out how to exploit Sullivan's system. Maybe we're wrong, and maybe they can win another Cup with Sullivan behind the bench, but my gut says its time to move on.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

It`s time to rebuild, they need to admit and move forward!!

 

[LOGiK]

They did for the first couple of seasons. His system, though, might have run it's course. Part of a coaching change is to spark the team. Some of the players here need that.

Yep. I don't want to keep saying the same thing over and over, but I guess I have to.

This team just doesnt know what to do with the puck. They chase and chase and chase and pressure and when they get the puck it's just get it off their stick quickly to press the game... which is unfortunately, resulting in just a slop fest out there.

It's going to take a longer write out to explain it better, but putting it simply, watch pretty much any other 'decent' team and you'll see exactly what the penguins are lacking. Their threat level with the puck is dangerously low.

 

[vikingGoalie]

It's gotta be maddening to be the head coach for the penguins. I mean how many times does Sullivan have to say in a post game presser that the players need to do X but they are doing Y? Until the light bulb moment goes off of "hey the coach is telling the players to do one thing and they aren't listening?" meaning light bulb moment for Mario. I know it's not his style. But if there is one person that could walk into the locker room and tell everyone to knock the B.S. out and do what the damn coach is telling you it's him.
Reality is Mario had a history of tuning the coach out when it suited him as well. So we are left with a new coach as the solution. Me, I couldn't be a head coach for long because I would 100% bench my star players if I thought effort or constant not listening on how to play was the issue.

I mean our reporters are so SOFF, if one of use were in the press corp it would be like when Sullivan says the players just need to play a certain way I'd point blank ask, "So why do you think they are not playing that way?"

 

[Gurglesons]

It's gotta be maddening to be the head coach for the penguins. I mean how many times does Sullivan have to say in a post game presser that the players need to do X but they are doing Y? Until the light bulb moment goes off of "hey the coach is telling the players to do one thing and they aren't listening?" meaning light bulb moment for Mario. I know it's not his style. But if there is one person that could walk into the locker room and tell everyone to knock the B.S. out and do what the damn coach is telling you it's him.
Reality is Mario had a history of tuning the coach out when it suited him as well. So we are left with a new coach as the solution. Me, I couldn't be a head coach for long because I would 100% bench my star players if I thought effort or constant not listening on how to play was the issue.

I mean our reporters are so SOFF, if one of use were in the press corp it would be like when Sullivan says the players just need to play a certain way I'd point blank ask, "So why do you think they are not playing that way?"

Sullivan has been their coach for nearly half a decade now. His message is done.

The fact the organization can’t see this is insane.

 

[LOGiK]

It's gotta be maddening to be the head coach for the penguins. I mean how many times does Sullivan have to say in a post game presser that the players need to do X but they are doing Y? Until the light bulb moment goes off of "hey the coach is telling the players to do one thing and they aren't listening?" meaning light bulb moment for Mario. I know it's not his style. But if there is one person that could walk into the locker room and tell everyone to knock the B.S. out and do what the damn coach is telling you it's him.
Reality is Mario had a history of tuning the coach out when it suited him as well. So we are left with a new coach as the solution. Me, I couldn't be a head coach for long because I would 100% bench my star players if I thought effort or constant not listening on how to play was the issue.

I mean our reporters are so SOFF, if one of use were in the press corp it would be like when Sullivan says the players just need to play a certain way I'd point blank ask, "So why do you think they are not playing that way?"

haha me too... I'd be a torts kind of coach... I tend to go against the grain... probably wouldnt last too long either after calling out sloppy lazy plays.

 

[BHD]

This team just doesnt know what to do with the puck. They chase and chase and chase and pressure and when they get the puck it's just get it off their stick quickly to press the game... which is unfortunately, resulting in just a slop fest out there.

They played with purpose after Sullivan took over. Now, it looks like they decide what to do with the puck after it gets on their stick. As @Gurglesons mentioned, his message has gotten old.

 

[LOGiK]

They played with purpose after Sullivan took over. Now, it looks like they're trying to figure out what to do with the puck after it gets on their stick.

Well, if we go by MS quotes from last night... they are looking for something that isn't there.

And being too robotic? THATS HIS SYSTEM... it's like his system crushes play-making smart hockey and forces speed and pressure.

I'm just confused by what he wants....

 

[Pens x]

Sullivan has been their coach for nearly half a decade now. His message is done.

The fact the organization can’t see this is insane.

Do you think he’d still be here if he wasn’t re-signed to a long term deal? I feel like his contract is playing a huge role. They don’t want to have to pay him and another coach.

I really don’t want Reirden getting promoted.

 

[Icarium]

Do you think he’d still be here if he wasn’t re-signed to a long term deal? I feel like his contract is playing a huge role. They don’t want to have to pay him and another coach.

It's practically guaranteed that another team will snap Sully soon if he gets fired. If that's the reason for not firing him, the owners are being really, really dumb.

 

[Gurglesons]

Do you think he’d still be here if he wasn’t re-signed to a long term deal? I feel like his contract is playing a huge role. They don’t want to have to pay him and another coach.

I really don’t want Reirden getting promoted.

Yes. The Penguins of this era are loyal to a fault.

Pens were above 500 when MJ was fired.

 

[Ugene Magic]

It's a combination of things. Coaching can't make players more than they are. This team can spin circles around teams, but if they can't penetrate the box well enough, consistently enough, teams will dare them to keep doing it. (Spinning wheels outside) They got pushed around so easily by Boston, and it's more mind games vs the Caps. Maybe both.

Those teams are a good mix of skill. size and toughness. Oh, they have some speed too. Their cores are aging just the same.

The Pens have only looked fast and dangerous once vs the worst team in the division. And they still lost.

Coach, am I doing it right?

I'd say they went overboard with speed, or just not the right choices since speed is not only indicative to smaller or lighter players.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

But that is pretty much the bread and butter of a coach, no? Sullivan is supposed to be the final arbitrator on how this group of players gets used, and to do that, he has properly evaluate players. Plus, he supposedly had lots of input with the former GM over the construction of the team.

I'd totally buy a lack of execution on the part of the team, or GMJR overruling Sullivan, but being able to honestly evaluate where the team is, well, that's one of the main components of Sully's job. If he can't do that or won't do that, then, again, what's the point in keeping him?

I think he - and, frankly, a lot of coaching staffs in the NHL - misjudged how long it would take for players to get their timing back after an unusual offseason.

Instead, it's taken more time. And when you think about it, Sidney Crosby is the definition of a creature of habit. The guy has the same routine before every game. His routine was completely disrupted. So why are we not surprised it's taken some time for him to look like himself? Is that Sullivan's fault? Hardly.

If the Penguins were the only contender that looked sloppy, I'd say Sullivan and his staff deserve more blame. But there's a lot of bad hockey out there right now. A lot of slow starts. Everyone praises Barry Trotz, but the Islanders look awful. Colorado had a slow start before it just recently turned a little bit of a corner and won 3 of its last 4. Teams look great one night and then sluggish the next.

 

[pistolpete11]

It's a combination of things. Coaching can't make players more than they are. This team can spin circles around teams, but if they can't penetrate the box well enough, consistently enough, teams will dare them to keep doing it. (Spinning wheels outside) They got pushed around so easily by Boston, and it's more mind games vs the Caps. Maybe both.

Those teams are a good mix of skill. size and toughness. Oh, they have some speed too. Their cores are aging just the same.

The Pens have only looked fast and dangerous once vs the worst team in the division. And they still lost.

Coach, am I doing it right?

I'd say they went overboard with speed, or just not the right choices since speed is not only indicative to smaller or lighter players.

My 'like' is mainly for the GIF, but I do agree with the message as well.

 

[vodeni]

It's a combination of things. Coaching can't make players more than they are. This team can spin circles around teams, but if they can't penetrate the box well enough, consistently enough, teams will dare them to keep doing it. (Spinning wheels outside) They got pushed around so easily by Boston, and it's more mind games vs the Caps. Maybe both.

Those teams are a good mix of skill. size and toughness. Oh, they have some speed too. Their cores are aging just the same.

The Pens have only looked fast and dangerous once vs the worst team in the division. And they still lost.

Coach, am I doing it right?

I'd say they went overboard with speed, or just not the right choices since speed is not only indicative to smaller or lighter players.

not sure about this, every time I hear Sully there is only one message...simplify...meaning circle around get to the point and shoot because that "breaks the defense and good things happen"...when thats your only strategy, the opponent can easily adjust, get aggressive on the point, get in lanes and prevent from placing good shots on the goal (another problem is that our dman generally suck in shooting), there has to be plan B...maybe pull back for a period, trap go with counter attacks using two-three speed lines, than go next period back to cycling just to make them guess....yesterday first period was a good example of good structured NZ play...unfortunately in the past Sid and Geneo were able to knife through the defense, shoot or draw extra dman allowing always Jake or Rust or someone to slide in for a shot...not anymore, they rarely beat anyone one on one let alone draw two dman on themselves...Our coaches must realize that and develop different kind of attacking schemes...but that would be coaching...

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think he - and, frankly, a lot of coaching staffs in the NHL - misjudged how long it would take for players to get their timing back after an unusual offseason.

Instead, it's taken more time. And when you think about it, Sidney Crosby is the definition of a creature of habit. The guy has the same routine before every game. His routine was completely disrupted. So why are we not surprised it's taken some time for him to look like himself? Is that Sullivan's fault? Hardly.

If the Penguins were the only contender that looked sloppy, I'd say Sullivan and his staff deserve more blame. But there's a lot of bad hockey out there right now. A lot of slow starts. Everyone praises Barry Trotz, but the Islanders look awful. Colorado had a slow start before it just recently turned a little bit of a corner and won 3 of its last 4. Teams look great one night and then sluggish the next.

I think this is a fair cop. But at the same time, I keep coming back to the same thing: is it worth wasting time to see if A) Sully regains the room B) finally gets the roster just how he wants it instead of figuring out how to make this roster work and C) the team gets back to Sully's game.

I don't think it's anywhere near entirely Sully's fault by any stretch of the imagination. But my point is-- does it matter? You only have a handful more seasons of serious contention barring a miracle, so look at your options to shake things up and you have to take the results as they currently are, not what is fair to Sully in a vacuum.

 

[Ugene Magic]

not sure about this, every time I hear Sully there is only one message...simplify...meaning circle around get to the point and shoot because that "breaks the defense and good things happen"...when thats your only strategy, the opponent can easily adjust, get aggressive on the point, get in lanes and prevent from placing good shots on the goal (another problem is that our dman generally suck in shooting), there has to be plan B...maybe pull back for a period, trap go with counter attacks using two-three speed lines, than go next period back to cycling just to make them guess....yesterday first period was a good example of good structured NZ play...unfortunately in the past Sid and Geneo were able to knife through the defense, shoot or draw extra dman allowing always Jake or Rust or someone to slide in for a shot...not anymore, they rarely beat anyone one on one let alone draw two dman on themselves...Our coaches must realize that and develop different kind of attacking schemes...but that would be coaching...

One way to break the chain is put a shooter inside the box. Not Jake or another of the guys who couldn't take the punishment of regularly being there is, Geno. Take him out of the equation of constantly circling and just plant him there. Now they have to worry about Geno's shot. Now they have to have their heads on a swivel more. Give them reason to fear the inside of their box.

That's why I don't like the Horny aspect. Horny just screens and every now and then it works, plus he's always detracting due to always being knocked down(go insane), and there are plenty of disallowed goals to top it off. Plant a big body there. Maybe O'Connor?

 

[Pens x]

I think he - and, frankly, a lot of coaching staffs in the NHL - misjudged how long it would take for players to get their timing back after an unusual offseason.

Instead, it's taken more time. And when you think about it, Sidney Crosby is the definition of a creature of habit. The guy has the same routine before every game. His routine was completely disrupted. So why are we not surprised it's taken some time for him to look like himself? Is that Sullivan's fault? Hardly.

If the Penguins were the only contender that looked sloppy, I'd say Sullivan and his staff deserve more blame. But there's a lot of bad hockey out there right now. A lot of slow starts. Everyone praises Barry Trotz, but the Islanders look awful. Colorado had a slow start before it just recently turned a little bit of a corner and won 3 of its last 4. Teams look great one night and then sluggish the next.

I think blaming the unique off season is an easy excuse. The only problem is that every team had a shortened off season. How many people gave the Pens a free pass because of this false theory when we were embarrassed by the 24th best team in the playoffs? It WaS a FLuKe!

The Pens have played 10 games and the season is almost 20% over. You act like it’s only the second game of the season.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's a combination of things. Coaching can't make players more than they are. This team can spin circles around teams, but if they can't penetrate the box well enough, consistently enough, teams will dare them to keep doing it. (Spinning wheels outside) They got pushed around so easily by Boston, and it's more mind games vs the Caps. Maybe both.

Those teams are a good mix of skill. size and toughness. Oh, they have some speed too. Their cores are aging just the same.

The Pens have only looked fast and dangerous once vs the worst team in the division. And they still lost.

Coach, am I doing it right?

I'd say they went overboard with speed, or just not the right choices since speed is not only indicative to smaller or lighter players.

That isn't true. The team has proven it can come from behind and win against pretty much every time in the division outside of Philly.

This team looks like a team going through the motions most nights. That is why you fire the coach. It is the only solution. You'v made multiple big trades, you've given him a roster stacked with offensive depth.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Sullivan has been their coach for nearly half a decade now. His message is done.

The fact the organization can’t see this is insane.

Totally agree. Sullivan is a good coach but it is clear that he is not getting through to the players. It is time to move on and hope that a new message can reach them. Maybe it can't and our window is simply closed but it is pretty obvious that nothing is going to get better under Sullivan. He is out of ideas.

 

[Gurglesons]

Totally agree. Sullivan is a good coach but it is clear that he is not getting through to the players. It is time to move on and hope that a new message can reach them. Maybe it can't and our window is simply closed but it is pretty obvious that nothing is going to get better under Sullivan. He is out of ideas.

That's the thing. I don't know if Sullivan is the issue, but the fact is he isn't the solution.

So why purposefully piss away a lottery pick if we don't have to.

 

[BHD]

And team was out of a playoff spot when MT was canned.