Movies: Terminator: Dark Fate

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,244
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We didn't have the internet back then. These people complained in their parent's basements to walls.

The internet has been available to the public (and, especially, the very nerds that love movies like this) for over 25 years now. If "these people" were complaining to walls before the internet, doesn't it stand to reason that they would've been trashing the Terminator and Alien franchises as soon as they got the internet in the mid 90s? Why did they wait until now to complain and why are the complaints targeted only at the newest movie, not the earliest ones? Also, if they never liked this franchise, why would they care about the newest movie, much less rant about it? Don't people do that only when they love the originals? Your claim doesn't make sense on any level.

You're imagining something to suit the narrative that you want to believe, IMO. You want to believe that "these people" hate women, so you simply can't admit that no one ever had a problem with the strong ladies in the Terminator and Alien franchises because that would shoot a gaping hope in your argument. You're thus forced to make up something that doesn't make sense, that they were always mad and just kept it to themselves until now for some reason. I think that that's fooling yourself as much as trying to fool others and acting no differently than the ranters on YouTube that you despise.
 
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Supermassive

HISS, HISS
Feb 19, 2007
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I had the same thought last week when I finally watched last year's Halloween sequel. I thought that it was very average and gave it a 5/10 in my review, but critics gave it a 79% on the Tomatometer, which is awfully high for a horror film, let alone a horror sequel, let alone a slasher horror sequel. Did the critics like it so much because it's that good of a movie or because, in this #MeToo era, they found it appealing to watch three strong women team up to beat a big, bad man? I haven't seen Dark Fate yet, but it sounds like it has a roughly similar story line going for it.

That might be an even better example than Ghostbusters. I love horror in general, and cherish several of the Halloween movies, but this one was an absolute turd.
 

Kiwi

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Mar 5, 2016
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The internet gave the crazies a medium in the 90's. Before that they kept it to themselves or closed circles.

Say what?

People adored the first two terminator movies and Linda Hamilton was a huge part of that, in the 2nd movie she's an absolute bad ass

People including "toxic male fanboys" will support good well written movies

Instead what has happened is the studio pumps out something incredibly average that adds nothing to the franchise, the critics give it favorable reviews because it conforms to their world view then both start attacking the Democratics most likely to want to go and view it and seem shocked that it's poorly received

How about making something good that adds to the franchise and lore then don't attack the people most likely to want to see it?
 

Jussi

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Feb 28, 2002
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Say what?

People adored the first two terminator movies and Linda Hamilton was a huge part of that, in the 2nd movie she's an absolute bad ass

People including "toxic male fanboys" will support good well written movies

Instead what has happened is the studio pumps out something incredibly average that adds nothing to the franchise, the critics give it favorable reviews because it conforms to their world view then both start attacking the Democratics most likely to want to go and view it and seem shocked that it's poorly received

How about making something good that adds to the franchise and lore then don't attack the people most likely to want to see it?

For f***'s sake people, do you not understand that comment is not about this movie?????????
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
51,881
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For ****'s sake people, do you not understand that comment is not about this movie?????????
Then why even make it. I made a comment how strong women was never an issue for this franchise and its fans. Tim Miller made it an issue in the marketing. Who cares if those people complain to the basement walls, they didn't go to the movie when T1 and T2 came out, and they were never going to go to this one. It's an extremely small amount of people and not the reason this failed.
 
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Jussi

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Feb 28, 2002
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Then why even make it. I made a comment how strong women was never an issue for this franchise and its fans. Tim Miller made it an issue in the marketing. Who cares if those people complain to the basement walls, they didn't go to the movie when T1 and T2 came out, and they were never going to go to this one. It's an extremely small amount of people and not the reason this failed.

It was a general comment on the subject.
 

Supermassive

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Feb 19, 2007
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Average at best. Giving Arnold fifth billing didn’t do the film any favours. The baddie was a one trick pony and the new hero didn’t really have any character development at all. Linda Hamilton played Sarah Connor who slowly morphed into my bitter old mother-in-law. This slots below Genisys and T3 and above Salvation for me, although I should probably re-watch Salvation sometime.
 

ManwithNoIdentity

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Jun 4, 2016
6,937
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Kalamazoo, MI
Went into it with zero expectations and tries to enjoy it but the John Conner arc took me out of it

Mac Davis is a great actress and probably the one thing I enjoyed about the movie, although it’s weird to see her in that role after Halt and Catch Fire


I erased it from my memory lol.


Really? I loved Salvation. The ideas and what not might not have been executed perfectly but they at least tried
 
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TheBeastCoast

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Mar 23, 2011
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I thought it was average at best. The John Conner stuff was really bad, and I just could not accept this tiny little 5 foot nothing girl as the bad ass to take down the robots she looks more like she could pass for playing a 16 year old in a teen drama then what she was billed as here. The popcorn was good atleast.
 

ORRFForever

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Oct 29, 2018
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I thought it was average at best. The John Conner stuff was really bad, and I just could not accept this tiny little 5 foot nothing girl as the bad ass to take down the robots she looks more like she could pass for playing a 16 year old in a teen drama then what she was billed as here. The popcorn was good atleast.
Time to put this franchise to rest.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
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The crazy part, this franchise had a genuine female badass from the start and it was never a problem.
Yeah it felt really in your face, which is why people didn't like the Charlies Angels reboot. No one likes it when it's not organically done. The way this movie was done, you felt that narrative and it sucked. Sara was always a f***ing bad ass and they didn't need to add 2 more women to it like they did.

Also the apparent interference from Cameron to Miller on this movie also drove Miller nuts, didn't want to work with him again after this.
 

Puck

Ninja
Jun 10, 2003
10,771
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Ottawa
I just watched Dark Fate. The action is cool but I can see why some are confused or disappointed with the storytelling here. The writers wiped out the plotline for T1 and T2 to create a new reason for continuing the battle. They invest a lot of time doing flashbacks to explain the new timeline but some Terminator fans must get bummed out watching the old story timeline get deleted so easily after having invested all that energy in the first ones. The new writers can do whatever they want with changing timelines I suppose but you're bound to annoy people who like to stick to canon law in their franchises.

The Box Office wasn't that bad. A lot of studios would like to make over $260 million on a film. The production budget was so high though that it ended in deficit for the studios and it gets negative press for that. I think they can continue this project if they can produce sequels for less. But if the aim was mainly to create a marvel-size revenue making franchise, the results might dictate they drop it. Good action scenes though, but I found the storyline reasoning somewhat jumbled (story written by Hollywood committee)
 

Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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The Box Office wasn't that bad. A lot of studios would like to make over $260 million on a film.

It's a lot worse than it looks. The breakdown was $62M domestic (which is just pathetic for a Terminator movie and supposed blockbluster) and $188M international. That's important because most of a studio's profits come from the domestic. They receive about 55% of domestic receipts and only 15% of international, so a movie that does a lot better internationally than at home is bad news for the studio. 55% of $62M is $34M and 15% of $188M is $28M. That adds up to only $62M that Paramount "made" after spending $185M making it.

The production budget was so high though that it ended in deficit for the studios and it gets negative press for that. I think they can continue this project if they can produce sequels for less. But if the aim was mainly to create a marvel-size revenue making franchise, the results might dictate they drop it. Good action scenes though, but I found the storyline reasoning somewhat jumbled (story written by Hollywood committee)

I don't see how that's possible because the budget would have to be under $60M to make a profit on a movie that does only as well as this one. You can make movies for less than that, but not ones with the CGI and practical special effects that are expected and almost required from a Terminator film and not with star power.

The big problem that I see is that domestic audiences are losing interest in the franchise. See the table below.

YearTitle Domestic BO
1991Terminator 2: Judgment Day$203,464,105
2003Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines$150,358,296
2009Terminator Salvation$125,322,469
2015Terminator: Genisys$89,760,956
2019Terminator: Dark Fate$62,253077
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Notice how the domestic box office has been steadily going down, and that's not even taking into account inflation (ex. T2 made $381M domestically in the same 2019 dollars that Dark Fate made only $62M of). American audiences are really souring on the franchise. That should've been apparent after Genisys. Even though it grossed $432M worldwide, much more than Dark Fate, it actually lost money because 3/4ths of that came from international markets. It was supposed to be the start of a trilogy, but its failure led to the cancellation of that idea and the selling of the franchise rights to James Cameron. Not even his renewed involvement and the return of Linda Hamilton were enough to get American butts in seats, though.

Even if you somehow were able to make a Terminator movie for under $100M, much less under $60M, it'd still be risky because American audiences aren't going out to see them. I'm sure that there will be more Terminator movies eventually, but I suspect that it won't be for a while, until the demand returns. Time might take care of that, but what I think might eventually happen is that someone will make a Terminator TV series (hopefully a premium player like Netflix or HBO, not CBS or SyFy). If done well, it could re-ignite interest, sort of like how The Mandalorian has restored a little bit of faith with fans upset with Disney over the latest Star Wars trilogy, and then whoever holds the rights at the time may feel brave enough to finance another Terminator movie to try to capitalize on it. Barring that, though, the franchise will probably be in a coma for a long while, IMO.
 
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chicagoskycam

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Some thoughts on the overall plot. I thought the idea that AI rose up in another form even though Skynet was gone an interesting take. Like no matter what technology will eventually advance to that point. I felt like they could have played up that angle more.

Arnold evolving and growing as a Terminator is kind of a slap to what the terminator originally was.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Some thoughts on the overall plot. I thought the idea that AI rose up in another form even though Skynet was gone an interesting take. Like no matter what technology will eventually advance to that point. I felt like they could have played up that angle more.

Arnold evolving and growing as a Terminator is kind of a slap to what the terminator originally was.
The story wasn't well thought out was the issue for me.

So their entire take became that even if John dies, there's a new savior, but they literally spent 4 freaking movies shoving that narrative down your throat and then it's all along that it doesn't matter if John lives or not, there will be a new savior. So what makes that girl important? If she dies, wouldn't there be another? By killing John and allowing the next savior to be a female (harsh push of a narrative/pandering), they kind of blew a massive hole in their whole premise.

Movie 1 - Dude literally comes back to meet Sara so they can conceive the savior.

This movie literally makes that first movie just trash. That first movie and its more "horror/thriller" element is literally the only good thing about this franchise anymore.
 

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