Confirmed with Link: TEAM 1040: Linden Vey To Accept Qualifying Offer of $735,000

[ddawg1950]

Vey had his chance in LA and was even more meh than Schroeder was. Schroeder also didn't cost a 2nd round pick to acquire.

True.

He cost a first.

 

[Orca Smash]

For some reason Benning decided that since we signed Vrbata we didn't need Santorelli in the lineup but still felt the need to trade for Vey to play virtually the exact same role despite being much more likely to fail than Santorelli who already has proven chemistry here as well as (had) a strong desire to play here.

Yes that was a week after this comment and santo's camp decided to test free agency, i believe benning made that comment during free agency. The comment i posted was right before it was disclosed by his agent he was heading to free agency and they could not reach a deal with van and he was testing the market.

Im discussing why before free agency even this deal did not get done. It certainly (unless the media is wrong) does not sound like they just let him walk, they were trying to bring him back.

I always assumed he wanted more term, but then he just signed a 1 year deal with TO.

 

[me2]

Did he let him walk?

The santorelli story has made no sense to me, benning openly praised him

Canucks general manager Jim Benning has not given up on re-signing Santorelli.

Benning said. “It’s definitely something that could happen in the next couple of days. I like him as a player. He can really shoot the puck.”


Botch claimed months ago before benning was even hired gilman was trying to sign him on another 1 year prove yourself contract, he claimed he wanted to stay in van, but then he left and signed with TO on a 1 year deal anyway.

Benning also said he'd circle back if he couldn't get anyone decent which was a pretty big kick in the nuts to Santorelli. Vey+Bonino was the writing on the wall. Benning likely considered a deal around the same as he made last year or a little more, the deal for $1.5m from Toronto wins out in that situation. If he was offered that $1.5m deal by Van I'd be surprised if he doesn't take it when he can't get his 2 year deal anywhere else either.

 

[Sharpshooter]

Those numbers would be disappointing considering Benning payed a 2nd and Santorelli, his age (23), style of play (not a defensive forward), and probable 2nd unit PP time.

A top 6 forward is not worth a 2nd rounder and a bottom 6 journey centerman??

I don't even know what to say.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

True.

He cost a first.

 

[Sharpshooter]

Benning also said he'd circle back if he couldn't get anyone decent which was a pretty big kick in the nuts to Santorelli. Vey+Bonino was the writing on the wall.

Yeah and? Benning got what he felt he needed and didn't feel he needed Santorelli then. What's the issue?

Sedin
Bonino

and then you have your choice of Vey, Mathias, Richardson, and even a prospect call up if it's necessary to fill the 3C spot.

 

[Archangel]

considering he did not have much of a choice here, He has done nothing at the nhl level that would warrant a team offer sheeting him

 

[Orca Smash]

Benning also said he'd circle back if he couldn't get anyone decent which was a pretty big kick in the nuts to Santorelli. Vey+Bonino was the writing on the wall. Benning likely considered a deal around the same as he made last year or a little more, the deal for $1.5m from Toronto wins out in that situation. If he was offered that $1.5m deal by Van I'd be surprised if he doesn't take it when he can't get his 2 year deal anywhere else either.

Yes but again, im discussing before that comment, before santorelli tested free agency. Benning made that comment after free agency began and santorelli's agent said he would be testing free agency and a deal could not be reached with van.

Before his agent announced they were testing the market it sounded like the canucks (gilman) were trying to resign him, botchford claimed awhile ago back on the team1040 they wanted to resign him on another 1 year deal, im curious where it went wrong that lead him to free agency and a deal not getting done. I assumed term was an issue but judging by the TO deal it does not look like a term issue.

The second benning comment which was more harsh was made after a deal could not get done and his agent took him to free agency. Prior to that he had said in that comment i posted he had interest in resigning him as well.

 

[The Stig]

True.

He cost a first.

This made me laugh

Yeah and? Benning got what he felt he needed and didn't feel he needed Santorelli then. What's the issue?

Sedin
Bonino

and then you have your choice of Vey, Mathias, Richardson, and even a prospect call up if it's necessary to fill the 3C spot.

Don't forget Horvat wants to push for a spot too.

 

[The Stig]

Yes but again, im discussing before that comment, before santorelli tested free agency. Benning made that comment after free agency began and santorelli's agent said he would be testing free agency and a deal could not be reached with van.

Before his agent announced they were testing the market it sounded like the canucks (gilman) were trying to resign him, botchford claimed awhile ago back on the team1040 they wanted to resign him on another 1 year deal, im curious where it went wrong that lead him to free agency and a deal not getting done. I assumed term was an issue but judging by the TO deal it does not look like a term issue.

I bet it was a bit of Anson Carter syndrome where he was asking for something above his worth. It was also probably the 1 year thing. And thats all he should have been offered. Yea he had a great half season, but is coming back from a major injury. Theres no way he should have gotten more than 1 year here.

 

[me2]

Yes but again, im discussing before that comment, before santorelli tested free agency. Benning made that comment after free agency began and santorelli's agent said he would be testing free agency and a deal could not be reached with van.

Before his agent announced they were testing the market it sounded like the canucks (gilman) were trying to resign him, botchford claimed awhile ago back on the team1040 they wanted to resign him on another 1 year deal, im curious where it went wrong that lead him to free agency and a deal not getting done. I assumed term was an issue but judging by the TO deal it does not look like a term issue.

The second benning comment which was more harsh was made after a deal could not get done and his agent took him to free agency. Prior to that he had said in that comment i posted he had interest in resigning him as well.

I'd say both term and money. It seems like $1.5m was sufficient, most people around here were thinking the same when speculating on his potential salary. If I had to guess it was that the Canucks had a much lower figure and a 1 year deal in mind, made the offer and were rightfully rebuffed hence the Santorelli decided to test FA. Found the dollars but not the term, which was still better than what he was being offered here. That fits in with the facts as we know them.

 

[Sharpshooter]

Don't forget Horvat wants to push for a spot too.

And it would be great if he was able to secure a spot. Gives Benning and WD even more options to work with. Would love a line like Vey - Horvat - Kassian, just for the balance of offence/defence and youth line bonding factor, for the future.

 

[Orca Smash]

Both scenarios could very well be true.

All i noticed following the story before it was announced he would be testing free agency was that both sides were showing interest getting a deal done through the media. After it was announced he was going to free agency it looks like it went south in a hurry and bennings positive comments went from praise for him to sounding harsh with the vrbata comment.

 

[me2]

A top 6 forward is not worth a 2nd rounder and a bottom 6 journey centerman??

I don't even know what to say.

25 points isn't a pass for that player, especially at that cost and in a 3C role with PP time, on a team that expects to make the playoffs. I expect a lot more, especially with PP time. Higgins put up 35 ES points last year and that will be one of his partners, even Hansen would had a terrible year still managed 18 ES points in 71 games. He's not playing with Weise and Sestito.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

True.

He cost a first.

Where he was drafted doesn't matter. He wouldn't have cost a 1st to keep on our roster, which is the whole point. That 1st in 2009 isn't going to come back just because we traded for Vey.

Even if you're being sarcastic I feel like it's important to clarify just in case some people think otherwise.

 

[ddawg1950]

Where he was drafted doesn't matter. He wouldn't have cost a 1st to keep on our roster, which is the whole point. That 1st in 2009 isn't going to come back just because we traded for Vey.

Even if you're being sarcastic I feel like it's important to clarify just in case some people think otherwise.

Ah, lighten up. It was just a joke.

And I trust HF posters to realize that without "clarification."

 

[timw33]

Great to hear this.

Very fair deal for both parties. For Vey it's a show us what you've got, and also protects him from being a cap casualty because he's barely above league minimum.

Two-way won't factor in unless he really craps the bed and we have to waive him and try to sneak him to Utica.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yep. Vey will be a 3rd liner this season and McKeown won't get a sniff of the NHL for years to come. If he gets a shot at the NHL in a few years, your description doesn't necessarily translate into top 4 dman. If that was the case, then it would apply to Vey as well. I don't think Vey is a top 6 forward, and I sure as hell don't believe McKeown will be a top 4 dman, despite his 'frame, ability and lower level production'.

Well that would come down to one's ability to assess and project talent... Even if you and I disagree on McKeown's projection, and we do, let's look at this from LA's perspective: Why do they target a pick with this trade? Why not a more matured asset? In other words, why do they assume the risk of time, as Mckeown is further from the NHL, to give up a seasoned AHL performer? To me, the answer is ultimate projection. They must feel McKeown projects better in the end.

That's why they pull the trigger for a green prospect. They sacrifice time for a better eventual asset. Otherwise, they go for a more ready prospect at a different position, IMO.

Vey simply has shown more talent in the AHL over 3 seasons which better translates to the NHL game than McKeown has over 2 OHL seasons.

By that logic, every good AHL player has "shown more talent" than every recent draftee.

We'll see how Vey stacks up to Santorelli. I'm not sure i'm in a position to compare someone who's played 18 games in the NHL to someone who's played nearly 5 seasons. I can say that Vey had a better first stint offensively in his first cup of coffee of 18 games in the NHL than Santorelli did in his 32 games over two seasons.

And?

The point is how does Vey now stack up to Santorelli now (as in, next season)? It's about projecting this upcoming season. People are reasonably confident in the comparison due to Santorelli's strong season last year. Based on probability alone, Vey is behind the 8 Ball. Odds are stacked against him.

It's not his fault either. It's just what we can reasonably expect from a 22 year old fringe NHLer...

But I never was comparing the two, I was comparing the value of Vey currently for the Nucks and McKeown, had we taken him at that spot, instead, and for the club that did select him. They didn't need Vey, because they have plenty of depth at that spot. We needed him more, and by the looks of it he has the frame, ability and lower level production, to possibly play a role on the 3rd line, whether at center or on the wing next season...and in my opinion, better able to play at that position that McKeown would be at the top 4 dman position in several years.

Did we really "need" him more? Santorelli was still unsigned. Same size, right shot, 2/3 centre, 1 year experience with the team... He could have filled the spot for 2 years, and likely at a better efficiency. Also, the RH defensive depth for the organization is weak. Mckeown would have supplemented that area well. Again, this comes down to how you assess org. weaknesses/strengths, as well as the skillset of McKeown/Vey.

Lastly, Vey's frame is not ideally suited to a 3rd line role. To me, he is ideally suited as a team's soft minute 2C (2nd unit PP time), similar to Santorelli. But like Santorelli, if he doesn't firmly establish himself in that role, he runs the risk of becoming a fringe player in his "off" years.

 

[vanuck]

That year Kesler played the toughest competition of any center on the team. Do you honestly think Bonino is capable of handling that role? If not, where will those responsibilities fall?

The Canucks' roster as it stands is going to be a defensive mess. Doubly so if their prime focus is on playing "uptempo" hockey. They're going to get eaten alive in the West trying to play like that without having the talent to back it up.

It'll be Henrik and Richardson/Matthias' lines - they literally have no other option but to use those two to take on tough minutes.

 

[LolClarkson*]

Heard it on twitter first.

just joking bud

 

[vanuck]

Huh, didn't even know that qualifying offers could be two-way.

Makes me even more mad we let Schroeder walk.(in addition to Santorelli, of course)

Didn't realize that either. Well that just seems to be our standard of asset management so far...

 

[banme*]

Didn't realize that either. Well that just seems to be our standard of asset management so far...

It's only 2-way because Vey is waiver eligible, so we can't send him down anyways. I saw a quote from Vey's agent somewhere saying that he was going to push for 1-way, but then realized it didn't matter because Vey would likely be claimed if we were to waive him.

 

[LeftCoast]

Well that would come down to one's ability to assess and project talent... Even if you and I disagree on McKeown's projection, and we do, let's look at this from LA's perspective: Why do they target a pick with this trade? Why not a more matured asset? In other words, why do they assume the risk of time, as Mckeown is further from the NHL, to give up a seasoned AHL performer? To me, the answer is ultimate projection. They must feel McKeown projects better in the end.

That's why they pull the trigger for a green prospect. They sacrifice time for a better eventual asset. Otherwise, they go for a more ready prospect at a different position, IMO.

This trade is LA's version of the Michael Grabner trade. Vey is waiver eligible this season, and with the depth ahead of him in LA, he is a high risk to not make the final roster and would be lost on waivers.

The point is how does Vey now stack up to Santorelli now (as in, next season)? It's about projecting this upcoming season. People are reasonably confident in the comparison due to Santorelli's strong season last year. Based on probability alone, Vey is behind the 8 Ball. Odds are stacked against him.

It's not his fault either. It's just what we can reasonably expect from a 22 year old fringe NHLer...

Did we really "need" him more? Santorelli was still unsigned. Same size, right shot, 2/3 centre, 1 year experience with the team... He could have filled the spot for 2 years, and likely at a better efficiency. Also, the RH defensive depth for the organization is weak. Mckeown would have supplemented that area well. Again, this comes down to how you assess org. weaknesses/strengths, as well as the skillset of McKeown/Vey.

Lastly, Vey's frame is not ideally suited to a 3rd line role. To me, he is ideally suited as a team's soft minute 2C (2nd unit PP time), similar to Santorelli. But like Santorelli, if he doesn't firmly establish himself in that role, he runs the risk of becoming a fringe player in his "off" years.

I think there were other factors such as cost, age and familiarity at play. Mike Santorelli signed with TO for $1.5M, but if he has a good year in TO, as a UFA he will likely cost $2.5M to $3M next year. Linden Vey signed with Vancouver for $750K and as a RFA at worst will cost $1.5M next year (Zack Kassian money). The trick for Vey is making the final roster and avoiding waivers. If he earns a roster spot, you have a 22 year old, on $750K contract replacing a 28 year old on a $1.5M contract. At worst, as long as the staff see potential in him, he's a 13th forward who doesn't have top 6 expectations.

Additionally, the way Benning talks about Vey, it is clear he is a player that Benning has been interested in for a while, having scouted him heavily in the AHL. With Desjardins having coached him in junior, familiarity was probably a factor.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

It's only 2-way because Vey is waiver eligible, so we can't send him down anyways. I saw a quote from Vey's agent somewhere saying that he was going to push for 1-way, but then realized it didn't matter because Vey would likely be claimed if we were to waive him.

well the two way doesn't give us an advantage, because we'll lose him before he gets to utica, but a one wat certainly would be a useful failsafe for vey. if he's terrible and we we waive him, and he continues being terrible for someone else and they also waive him, chances are he's making a lot less money than he could be on someone's AHL team.

 

[deckercky]

well the two way doesn't give us an advantage, because we'll lose him before he gets to utica, but a one wat certainly would be a useful failsafe for vey. if he's terrible and we we waive him, and he continues being terrible for someone else and they also waive him, chances are he's making a lot less money than he could be on someone's AHL team.

If someone claimed him then waived him again, no chance he gets back the Canucks who would be able to claim and put him in Utica. The AHL salary is essentially meaningless on this contract.

Only way I see Vey actually spending any time in Utica is if he's hurt then put on a conditioning stint.