Player Discussion Taylor Hall - Part 2

[Supermassive]

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/dreger-oilers-brass-told-hall-close-untouchable/

Time for the haters to move on from Hall to their next target. He isn't going anywhere.

 

[Up the Irons]

I wouldn't say he looks good, he looks like a number 6, not a number 2 like he was asked to be here, I'm pretty sure his minutes per game is hovering below 15 mins with the pens, and not the 23+ he was getting with the oilers.

Not to mention, he plays in the beer league, Eastern conference. I don't care if he turns into Bobby Orr, he sucked here. Possibly, the biggest reason Rebuild 2.0 failed. Not his fault. They never should have bet the farm on him being their Letang, but it's was what it was.

 

[Up the Irons]

Hall should not be moved. period.

The team needs to move Eberle, RNH, Yak far before they even think about trading the only good winger on this team.

Build around Klefbom, Hall, McDavid, Draisaitl and this years first.

Nice group, but there is 1 Dman in there. As long as the Ebs and RNH bring back 2 Dmen equal to Klefbom, that might work.

Im more inclined to include this year's first with the group going out to bring Dmen in.

 

[Beerfish]

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/dreger-oilers-brass-told-hall-close-untouchable/

Time for the haters to move on from Hall to their next target. He isn't going anywhere.

#1 He shouldn't be untouchable (and it says 'near')

#2 I don't know of many if any on here are Hall haters. The thought that becasue you take a player to task for lousy play or that you even dare to bring up his name in a trade makes you a hater is ludicrous

 

[Up the Irons]

#1 He shouldn't be untouchable (and it says 'near')

#2 I don't know of many if any on here are Hall haters. The thought that becasue you take a player to task for lousy play or that you even dare to bring up his name in a trade makes you a hater is ludicrous

This drives me crazy, too.

Hall is unlikely to be moved because there, likely, isn't a reasonable trade for him. But he is not untouchable.

This team has 1, ONE, untouchable asset.

 

[Young Lions*]

#1 He shouldn't be untouchable (and it says 'near')

#2 I don't know of many if any on here are Hall haters. The thought that becasue you take a player to task for lousy play or that you even dare to bring up his name in a trade makes you a hater is ludicrous

I don't know if haters is the word, but there's a lot of yammering around Hall that is just not rational. It's one thing to talk about defensive issues or what have you, but if you're one of those people who references body language or leadership or other crap like that, well, you just aren't being serious.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

trading Taylor Hall for spare parts is such a Oiler thing to do

 

[GMofOilers]

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/dreger-oilers-brass-told-hall-close-untouchable/

Time for the haters to move on from Hall to their next target. He isn't going anywhere.

I dont know how any fan could think any differently. Chia has a pulse on this team, you win with players like Hall, when u surround him by the right players.

The only way you move Hall is if you sign a Ladd or Lucic, and you get a #1 dman back in return say, Subban or Weber

Thats the only way his name should ever be considered in a trade.

 

[harpoon]

The thought that becasue you take a player to task for lousy play or that you even dare to bring up his name in a trade makes you a hater is ludicrous

Fake argument. Its the way the criticism is leveled, the blatant double standards and the agenda posts that piss folks off. Pretty sure you know this.

I dont know how any fan could think any differently. Chia has a pulse on this team, you win with players like Hall, when u surround him by the right players.

The only way you move Hall is if you sign a Ladd or Lucic, and you get a #1 dman back in return say, Subban or Weber

Thats the only way his name should ever be considered in a trade.

Guys talking about Ladd and Lucic and Weber and Subban are dreaming. Flat out dreaming.

 

[Supermassive]

#1 He shouldn't be untouchable (and it says 'near')

#2 I don't know of many if any on here are Hall haters. The thought that becasue you take a player to task for lousy play or that you even dare to bring up his name in a trade makes you a hater is ludicrous

I don't classify you or Up The Irons or any other regular poster here as a hater. In fact you guys bring the same concerns and opinions that we all have concerning Hall's play and his trade value, even if we don't state it often.

I'm addressing the more extreme viewpoints that don't hold water.

 

[MessierII]

I don't know if haters is the word, but there's a lot of yammering around Hall that is just not rational. It's one thing to talk about defensive issues or what have you, but if you're one of those people who references body language or leadership or other crap like that, well, you just aren't being serious.

How about the fact he's dissapeared the past 30 games and had a sub par year last year. Yeah he had 80 points that one year. That was two full seasons ago. It is very concerning.

 

[Philly85*]

he pisses me the **** off, many a time over the course of the season and his total collapse from the mid way point till now is unsettling. But he's the one player you don't sell short on under many if any circumstances. I'm happy if they keep him, warts and all.

ultimately, while I think it's clear moves will be made and changes probably should occur, Kevin Lowe, Steve Tambellini and MacT couldn't surround these guys with any sort of capable, competent veteran help, and absolutely nothing for defense.

The blueline was a killer, the lack of depth, the lack of leadership in any capacity... it all went so horribly wrong. So the players can take responsibility, and should take some of the blame, but everything around them has been so dysfunctional I don't blame them for checking out.

 

[Young Lions*]

How about the fact he's dissapeared the past 30 games and had a sub par year last year. Yeah he had 80 points that one year. That was two full seasons ago. It is very concerning.

He was injured last year and still produced at a 60 point pace. And, as has been pointed out before, 60 points in today's NHL is like 70-80 points a decade ago.

I mean I guess it comes down to this: do you think the 41 games Hall dropped off the face of the earth this year is the future for a player who turns 25 next season and who has been a near PPG player his entire career up till now or if this half season is a blip caused by injury or bad luck or something?

 

[Beerfish]

I don't know if haters is the word, but there's a lot of yammering around Hall that is just not rational. It's one thing to talk about defensive issues or what have you, but if you're one of those people who references body language or leadership or other crap like that, well, you just aren't being serious.

I've never had any issues with the 'body language thing', he is not a great leader at all but that doesn't matter no one on the oilers is. 100% of the issue with Hall right now is he has played purely awful for the last half of the season for a player of his pedigree. That's the issue. You can't have your top players checking out for a full half season if you ever want to get anywhere.

 

[Beerfish]

He was injured last year and still produced at a 60 point pace. And, as has been pointed out before, 60 points in today's NHL is like 70-80 points a decade ago.

I mean I guess it comes down to this: do you think the 41 games Hall dropped off the face of the earth this year is the future for a player who turns 25 next season and who has been a near PPG player his entire career up till now or if this half season is a blip caused by injury or bad luck or something?

Yeah, must be injury....or a full half season of bad luck....or something.....

 

[Replacement*]

He was injured last year and still produced at a 60 point pace. And, as has been pointed out before, 60 points in today's NHL is like 70-80 points a decade ago.

I mean I guess it comes down to this: do you think the 41 games Hall dropped off the face of the earth this year is the future for a player who turns 25 next season and who has been a near PPG player his entire career up till now or if this half season is a blip caused by injury or bad luck or something?

That's the key to me.

Its bollocks not to look at that.

Hall is just coming into prime.

He's often an unstoppable beast even at his age. He's only going to get better and the player has shown more than enough resolve, resilience, perseverance to rule out any other conclusion.

its uncanny to me that people think that the last half production is anything more than Hall knowing its next year time anyway and that fundamentally the most important thing is staying healthy and showing up and hoping theres a team next season that can possibly win.

This guy has shown a lot of commitment and class and has not complained. Really to an amazing degree. I don't know a lot of players in the league would have handled this situation as well as Hall this past 6yrs.

 

[Replacement*]

I've never had any issues with the 'body language thing', he is not a great leader at all but that doesn't matter no one on the oilers is. 100% of the issue with Hall right now is he has played purely awful for the last half of the season for a player of his pedigree. That's the issue. You can't have your top players checking out for a full half season if you ever want to get anywhere.

Yeah, must be injury....or a full half season of bad luck....or something.....

Do you think there would be any issue of Hall checking out if he thought he was playing on a team that was even remotely competitive? Lets be clear here too. He altered his play some time in January. When fate of this team was more than clear. He even stated at the time he would be adjusting his style of play to avoid grievous injury. Stated he would pick his battles more and expose himself to less hellacious hits. What he left unsaid was that that's all because there was no reason remaining this season to put his life on line. I tend to agree.

You know this isn't a problem with Hall's resolve. Its about his need to be on a team that can even possibly win which damn well better happen by next season for his, and McDavid's benefit.

This is not an issue with Hall, its the issue of a competitive player needing SOME facet of competitive team to play for in 6yrs. its been tough for him, no doubt. Do people honestly think Gaudreau would be playing the exact same way if he had 6yrs of team futility in Calgary? Even one season of losing has adversely impacted Monahans game.

 

[Young Lions*]

I've never had any issues with the 'body language thing', he is not a great leader at all but that doesn't matter no one on the oilers is. .

You don't know the first thing about it, though.

100% of the issue with Hall right now is he has played purely awful for the last half of the season for a player of his pedigree. That's the issue.

That's not the issue. The issue is "why has Hall's production stalled and what do we do about it?"

You can't have your top players checking out for a full half season if you ever want to get anywhere

That's true, but...so what? Do you sell the guy off as a result? Sometimes guys crush it and fall back to earth, sometimes guys hit the skids. **** happens and harping on the 41 games or less he's been middling doesn't change that nor does it offer a way forward.

Really, all you've done in these all threads is point at that factoid and been like "but but but 41 games!" without offering anything else. If you think that Hall's future is a 0.5 PPG player at 25 after the career he's had to date, say so. If you mean something else, say that. But "but but but 41 games!" is getting mighty old.

Yeah, must be injury....or a full half season of bad luck....or something.....

Yeah, I guess the previous 338 games was just a big fluke.

 

[McDNicks17]

Only three players have more 5v5 points over the past four seasons, but let's trade him because he had a bad 30 game stretch.

Makes sense.

 

[GMofOilers]

Fake argument. Its the way the criticism is leveled, the blatant double standards and the agenda posts that piss folks off. Pretty sure you know this.
Guys talking about Ladd and Lucic and Weber and Subban are dreaming. Flat out dreaming.

Probably but the same dreaming could be taking place for the fans that think the Oilers are just going to trade Hall in the first place.

 

[aki]

The fact remains that the list of LW who are better than Hall in the entire NHL is pretty short. Benn, sure. Then who? Parise? Landeskog? Pacioretty? Not sure I'd take any of those guys over Hall.

I get that guys like Ovechkin and Pavelski can play LW and have done so on occasion. But I'm talking a true and pure LW.

Food for thought...

 

[Originally Posted By*]

There is a reason he isn't highly regarded around the league and its because he really isn't that crazy good. I mean the way some of the posters on this board hype him up is nearing Toronto Maple Leaf fan-boyism levels. He's a top 3 Lw in the world yet didn't get an invite to team Canada for olympics and for world cup (initial roster)?

He's an elite winger yet he can't produce for more than 40 games?

The fact of the matter is once mcdavid came back Hall sat back and picked his nose for the last 3 months while our team fell deeper and deeper in the standings.

That is not a player i want to go to war with. Mcdavid never took his foot off the pedal, yet Hall feels our season ended officially in Jan?

That's a loser mentality that will not be cured by adding a defenceman.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Fake argument. Its the way the criticism is leveled, the blatant double standards and the agenda posts that piss folks off. Pretty sure you know this.
Guys talking about Ladd and Lucic and Weber and Subban are dreaming. Flat out dreaming.

I dont know how any fan could think any differently. Chia has a pulse on this team, you win with players like Hall, when u surround him by the right players.

The only way you move Hall is if you sign a Ladd or Lucic, and you get a #1 dman back in return say, Subban or Weber

Thats the only way his name should ever be considered in a trade.

Pretty much. The ONLY way you move Hall is in a dream scenario that doesn't ever happen - IE you have a backburner deal to move him to Montreal for Subban with money retained once Lucic signs for below market value.

 

[Philly85*]

Benn
Ovechkin

Hall is right in there with that second cluster of 3-4 left wingers who are basically interchangeable year to year

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Just for the love of God give Hall ONE healthy season with a real defense behind him. All of Edmonton's defencemen combined have contributed less assists (10) on his 25 goals than Karlsson has contributed (12) to Mike Hoffman's 28 goals. Get Hamonic and Vatanen, get him playing meaningful games after Valentine's Day, and watch him go to war.