Player Discussion Taylor Hall - Part 2

[The Nuge]

Please keep the personal shots out of it

So much of this post, lol...

Firstly, many hockey players do not go out to bars, lol. Yakupov, for example, doesn't drink from my understanding.

Secondly.. we're picking out stats and tangible results? Tangible means solid, concrete things in this context. You must mean intangible.

Thirdly, Hall has been playing in the NHL for how many years now, but you think his play has been an anomaly, and as he enters his prime he will start getting worse? How can you see this as logical? He's had a bad second half of this season, sure... but his play in the first half was fantastic, bordering on putting him in the top 5 in scoring, not to mention his 5v5 scoring prowess.

Finally, you cannot assume that just because this year he is struggling to maintain his scoring int he second half that this would have been the same in each year that he was injured. It's just not something that you can assume realistically. I see what you're trying to say, and I can see where you are coming from. But it really has no use in reality.

You dislike it when we show you stats, and give you our opinions. But when you argue, all you are using is your opinion. Do you see how that makes your argument weaker? I'm seriously asking you this question. Are you Tyler Seguin? That could explain your irrational view of Taylor Hall.

Yes stats are junk because they don't show things that haven't happened yet.



Terrible examples. Cheechoo was finished by a knee injury, Heatly was a mediocre skater who got by on a good release and depended on good playmakers like Spezza and Thornton for a lot of his production. Neither were the kind of dynamic offensive drivers Hall is. This comp does little to dispel the perception that you have no idea what you are talking about

As long as Hall has his dynamic skating ability, he'll be fine. I expect once that goes, though, his game will drop off, but barring injury we're probably looking a good five or six productive seasons.




LOL. Was T-mac not coach for the first three months of the year when hall was scoring at a PPG clip?



60 points would have Hall as one of the top 20 or so scoring wingers in the league. And that's his floor. I don't think you thought this sick burn through.



You do understand how PPG works right?

Look, I don't care for stats as much as others because you can't base sustainability with what has happened in the past. If you could, I'd be the next Warren Buffet in the stock market. I'm telling you my opinion his skills aren't polished enough to survive a team game that TM preaches. You won't change my mind by using stats in the past.

Agree to Disagree

So you are now saying Taylor Hall doesn't have polished skills.

So literally he just needs to practice and pollish his skills and he will be even better.

Click to read more...

 

[Originally Posted By*]

Firstly, thank you mods for combining countless topics into one and giving posters a place to discuss Hall, truly appreciate the on-going effort.

I think if Hall really worked on his hands and balance in the summer and eliminated some of the unforced errors, I'd be able to live with him on our team.

It's frustrating when we battle tooth and nail to get set up in the O-Zone, and the puck comes to Hall and he handles it like a grenade. Hall is dominant on the rush, no denying that. How often are teams giving up odd man rushes though? I know it doesn't happen in the playoffs as much - it's all about grinding you down when it comes to the playoffs and the cycle game is where the majority of your offence will come from. I see Maroon excelling in that sense.

Regardless, if a legitimate defenceman becomes available, you have to trade for him.

Should be an interesting Summer

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Firstly, thank you mods for combining countless topics into one and giving posters a place to discuss Hall, truly appreciate the on-going effort.

I think if Hall really worked on his hands and balance in the summer and eliminated some of the unforced errors, I'd be able to live with him on our team.

It's frustrating when we battle tooth and nail to get set up in the O-Zone, and the puck comes to Hall and he handles it like a grenade. Hall is dominant on the rush, no denying that. How often are teams giving up odd man rushes though? I know it doesn't happen in the playoffs as much - it's all about grinding you down when it comes to the playoffs and the cycle game is where the majority of your offence will come from. I see Maroon excelling in that sense.

Regardless, if a legitimate defenceman becomes available, you have to trade for him.

Should be an interesting Summer

there are many legitimate defencemen.

If you're trading Hall, and the guy coming back isn't at least of Pietrangelo caliber, you've failed and gotten fleeced.

 

[Young Lions*]

there are many legitimate defencemen.
If you're trading Hall, and the guy coming back isn't at least of Pietrangelo caliber, you've failed and gotten fleeced.

I'm of the opinion that if a player of Pietrangelo's caliber comes on the market and you trade a player like Hall for them, you ***** up because top players never get equivalent value back in trades. That's just the way it is.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

Firstly, thank you mods for combining countless topics into one and giving posters a place to discuss Hall, truly appreciate the on-going effort.

I think if Hall really worked on his hands and balance in the summer and eliminated some of the unforced errors, I'd be able to live with him on our team.

It's frustrating when we battle tooth and nail to get set up in the O-Zone, and the puck comes to Hall and he handles it like a grenade. Hall is dominant on the rush, no denying that. How often are teams giving up odd man rushes though? I know it doesn't happen in the playoffs as much - it's all about grinding you down when it comes to the playoffs and the cycle game is where the majority of your offence will come from. I see Maroon excelling in that sense.

Regardless, if a legitimate defenceman becomes available, you have to trade for him.

Should be an interesting Summer

So basically, as a fan of a bottom feeding lottery team, you're unable to live with a player that is already top 5 at his position unless he becomes better.

 

[Arpeggio]

Firstly, thank you mods for combining countless topics into one and giving posters a place to discuss Hall, truly appreciate the on-going effort.

I think if Hall really worked on his hands and balance in the summer and eliminated some of the unforced errors, I'd be able to live with him on our team.

It's frustrating when we battle tooth and nail to get set up in the O-Zone, and the puck comes to Hall and he handles it like a grenade. Hall is dominant on the rush, no denying that. How often are teams giving up odd man rushes though? I know it doesn't happen in the playoffs as much - it's all about grinding you down when it comes to the playoffs and the cycle game is where the majority of your offence will come from. I see Maroon excelling in that sense.

Regardless, if a legitimate defenceman becomes available, you have to trade for him.

Should be an interesting Summer

Ridiculous sentence.

 

[CupofOil]

Ridiculous sentence.

He/She also said that Hall "mailed it in" since January so.....

 

[ChaoticOrange]

So basically, as a fan of a bottom feeding lottery team, you're unable to live with a player that is already top 5 at his position unless he becomes better.

Hall ES P/60 from 2013-2016: 2.93

Games Played: 201

Patrick Kane ES P/60 from 2013-2016: 2.92

Games Played: 201

Yeah, that Hall guy needs to get better before I can live with him on this team.

 

[Originally Posted By*]

Hall ES P/60 from 2013-2016: 2.93

Games Played: 201

Patrick Kane ES P/60 from 2013-2016: 2.92

Games Played: 201

Yeah, that Hall guy needs to get better before I can live with him on this team.

Patrick Kane 2015-2016: 71 GP 90 points
Taylor Hall 2015-2016: 73 GP 58 points (lol)

Stop living in the past. I don't care about 4 years ago what Hall did

 

[McDraekke]

Firstly, thank you mods for combining countless topics into one and giving posters a place to discuss Hall, truly appreciate the on-going effort.

I think if Hall really worked on his hands and balance in the summer and eliminated some of the unforced errors, I'd be able to live with him on our team.

It's frustrating when we battle tooth and nail to get set up in the O-Zone, and the puck comes to Hall and he handles it like a grenade. Hall is dominant on the rush, no denying that. How often are teams giving up odd man rushes though? I know it doesn't happen in the playoffs as much - it's all about grinding you down when it comes to the playoffs and the cycle game is where the majority of your offence will come from. I see Maroon excelling in that sense.

Regardless, if a legitimate defenceman becomes available, you have to trade for him.

Should be an interesting Summer

I'd like to add something to my thoughts on Hall.

If a defenseman who has the same or higher value of Hall becomes available for Hall, I would probably pull the trigger. The difference in our opinions, is what constitutes a dman that has the value of Hall. It would have to be a #1 defenseman, top 10 in the league, for me to trade Hall. I wouldn't trade Hall for a defenseman of lesser value, or perceived equal value due to "defensemen being harder to find than wingers." I'm not disputing that fact, but I would still not trade down to get a player that fills a positional hole.

 

[McDraekke]

Patrick Kane 2015-2016: 71 GP 90 points
Taylor Hall 2015-2016: 73 GP 58 points (lol)

Stop living in the past. I don't care about 4 years ago what Hall did, Don't compare these two players ever again, it's embarassing on your part.

You guys are grasping onto straws. You're mad even Johnny Hockey surpassed Hall and your favorite player isn't the golden boy anymore. I know it's hard to swallow but Chia is moving him first chance he gets, because he knows what players you can win games with - Hall hasn't won ****, along with our supposed "core"

How has your argument now progressed to spewing things like Chia is ready to move him the first change he gets? Where do you get this ****? This is such utter nonsense, it's really hard to comprehend.

And seriously man. Stop using championships as a way to value players! It is less meaningful than +/-

And comparisons to Kane can easily be made. It wasn't until this year that Kane started lighting the world on fire.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Patrick Kane 2015-2016: 71 GP 90 points
Taylor Hall 2015-2016: 73 GP 58 points (lol)

Stop living in the past. I don't care about 4 years ago what Hall did

You don't care that Hall is a top 5 forward in the NHL at even strength THIS YEAR either - and that's without riding ridiculous shooting percentages.

Pick and choose what stats you like and which ones you don't. I don't care.

As for Gaudreau, I'd want a bit more than six even strength points on the road out of him before I dub him any kind of superstar.

Yes, that's correct, Patrick Maroon has more road points than Gaudreau does. He needs favourable matchups and starts to have success. Hall doesn't (He's 15th in that metric, BTW).

 

[CupofOil]

How has your argument now progressed to spewing things like Chia is ready to move him the first change he gets? Where do you get this ****? This is such utter nonsense, it's really hard to comprehend.

And seriously man. Stop using championships as a way to value players! It is less meaningful than +/-

And comparisons to Kane can easily be made. It wasn't until this year that Kane started lighting the world on fire.

As ridiculous as his hyperbole is, this is just as ridiculous. There has never been a comparison between Hall and Kane regardless of what the point totals tell you.
Kane is one of the most skilled players on the planet, probably THE most dangerous one on one player in the league up there with Ovechkin. Not to mention, the most clutch player in the league. Hall isn't in the same stratosphere.

 

[Originally Posted By*]

How has your argument now progressed to spewing things like Chia is ready to move him the first change he gets? Where do you get this ****? This is such utter nonsense, it's really hard to comprehend.

And seriously man. Stop using championships as a way to value players! It is less meaningful than +/-

And comparisons to Kane can easily be made. It wasn't until this year that Kane started lighting the world on fire.

I didn't use Championships anywhere.

We've spun our tires in mud the last 6 years with Hall, he's one of our most tenured player on the roster and hasn't led this team to better than a bottom 3 finish except one year, where we finished 23 (wow). Please, let that sink in and explain how anybody on this roster is safe?

TM said players King the same mistakes years over years over years with different coaches. He said "its like banging your head over and over yet expecting different results", he even said it's time to trade the players if they won't learn from their mistakes. Recall he also reamed Hall out on the bench that one game, and the fact that Dreger called out Hall for bad body language : i think Hall is the culprit for bad team morale

 

[Young Lions*]

As ridiculous as his hyperbole is, this is just as ridiculous. There has never been a comparison between Hall and Kane regardless of what the point totals tell you.

Yeah because the situations they've been in aren't remotely comparable.

Kane is one of the most skilled players on the planet, probably THE most dangerous one on one player in the league up there with Ovechkin. Not to mention, the most clutch player in the league. Hall isn't in the same stratosphere.

Kane also played with Toews and a back line with two likely first ballot Hall of Famers. Put Kane in Hall's situation and I'm betting we see a similar narrative emerge.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I didn't use Championships anywhere.

We've spun our tires in mud the last 6 years with Hall, he's one of our most tenured player on the roster and hasn't led this team to better than a bottom 3 finish except one year, where we finished 23 (wow). Please, let that sink in and explain how anybody on this roster is safe?

TM said players King the same mistakes years over years over years with different coaches. He said "its like banging your head over and over yet expecting different results", he even said it's time to trade the players if they won't learn from their mistakes. Recall he also reamed Hall out on the bench that one game, and the fact that Dreger called out Hall for bad body language : i think Hall is the culprit for bad team morale

If you've already decided for yourself what Taylor Hall is to you, why do you continue this?

 

[McDraekke]

As ridiculous as his hyperbole is, this is just as ridiculous. There has never been a comparison between Hall and Kane regardless of what the point totals tell you.
Kane is one of the most skilled players on the planet, probably THE most dangerous one on one player in the league up there with Ovechkin. Not to mention, the most clutch player in the league. Hall isn't in the same stratosphere.

I'm not saying that he's in the same league in terms of value, but the comparison of point totals was made, and it's perfectly valid. And to be honest, including contracts, I take Hall every day.

 

[CupofOil]

I'm not saying that he's in the same league in terms of value, but the comparison of point totals was made, and it's perfectly valid. And to be honest, including contracts, I take Hall every day.

The Kane contract does throw a wrench into his value but he has always been a level above Hall. Kane's skill is sublime. He has turned Panarin into a star seemingly overnight.

 

[Originally Posted By*]

If you've already decided for yourself what Taylor Hall is to you, why do you continue this?

Because I'm getting attacked for having an opinion. I know what hall is/isn't so I don't need anyone to help change my mind.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Because I'm getting attacked for having an opinion. I know what hall is/isn't so I don't need anyone to help change my mind.

You're getting disagreed with for having a controversial and totally unfounded opinion. There's a difference.

 

[McDraekke]

I didn't use Championships anywhere.

We've spun our tires in mud the last 6 years with Hall, he's one of our most tenured player on the roster and hasn't led this team to better than a bottom 3 finish except one year, where we finished 23 (wow). Please, let that sink in and explain how anybody on this roster is safe?

TM said players King the same mistakes years over years over years with different coaches. He said "its like banging your head over and over yet expecting different results", he even said it's time to trade the players if they won't learn from their mistakes. Recall he also reamed Hall out on the bench that one game, and the fact that Dreger called out Hall for bad body language : i think Hall is the culprit for bad team morale

When you state "Hall hasn't won ****," you definitely do mean championships. Because Hall has certainly won us games by himself before. And you have literally said the words he hasn't made it to playoffs or won championships in previous iterations of this thread, so please don't act like I'm making anything up.

Could literally give two ***** about what one analyst says about Hall's body language. It's clear to everyone he hates losing. Not a surprise. I play in a rec dodgeball league and I hate losing too.

One player does not lead a team anywhere, be that out of the basement of the league or into the playoffs. Stop using that in your arguments. The only person I could see this argument being used for in current times is Carey Price - arguably the best goalie in the world. But you can't take one example of this and say it proves you right.

 

[Originally Posted By*]

The Kane contract does throw a wrench into his value but he has always been a level above Hall. Kane's skill is sublime. He has turned Panarin into a star seemingly overnight.

Lol anyone who says they'd take Hall over Kane is honestly just trying to be funny. A difference in 4 million will net you the best player in the world, and a top performing, clutch player in the playoffs. Make a poll I bet it's lopsided lol Hall > Kane maybe Evander Kane, not Patrick though.

 

[McDraekke]

Because I'm getting attacked for having an opinion. I know what hall is/isn't so I don't need anyone to help change my mind.

Then stop posting. Then you won't get "attacked" as you put it - or disagreed with as others put it. Pretty simple.

 

[McDraekke]

Lol anyone who says they'd take Hall over Kane is honestly just trying to be funny. A difference in 4 million will net you the best player in the world, and a top performing, clutch player in the playoffs. Make a poll I bet it's lopsided lol Hall > Kane maybe Evander Kane, not Patrick though.

You trade Hall straight across for Kane, and all you end up with is a couple more wins, and less cap space. Sorry man, I don't take Kane over Hall right now.

 

[McFlyingV]

Patrick Kane 2015-2016: 71 GP 90 points
Taylor Hall 2015-2016: 73 GP 58 points (lol)

Stop living in the past. I don't care about 4 years ago what Hall did

Eberle is awful too then, he's had a terrible season and nothing he's done in the past counts for anything.