Player Discussion Taylor Hall - Part 2

[ChaoticOrange]

Lol Panarin and Anisimov, he sure is playing with world beaters! Oh but that's right, he has keith on back end. I'm so silly, Keith is the one responsible for helping kane score his goals how silly of me

Yeah, that two time Norris winner and Conn Smythe winner probably isn't helping at all...

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Lol Panarin and Anisimov, he sure is playing with world beaters! Oh but that's right, he has keith on back end. I'm so silly, Keith is the one responsible for helping kane score his goals how silly of me

Our best 2 defense men have 26 points and 12.
Keith and Seabrook both have 42.
Kane than Hall but there is no way he puts up 90 points on this team.

 

[Beerfish]

Hall ES P/60 from 2013-2016: 2.93

Games Played: 201

Patrick Kane ES P/60 from 2013-2016: 2.92

Games Played: 201

Yeah, that Hall guy needs to get better before I can live with him on this team.

PP performance, defense, winning games, consistency of scoring are all part of a player.

 

[Originally Posted By*]

I'm really enjoying seeing the poster who derides Hall for not being a regular 80 point player saying a guy who hit 80 points once in 8 seasons (and then only at a time when scoring league wide was juiced) is the greatest player in the world. The hits keep coming.

Didn't say he was the greatest anywhere in my posts lol
Are you new to this? You're wrong about Hall > Kane, and now you're putting words in my mouth.

I said Nash carried his team, something hall hasn't done or came close to doing.

But please, feel free where I said Rick Nash is the greatest player in the world? Lol, this should be good..

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Thank you, you just proved my point. One player can carry a team to the playoffs, and it doesn't need to be Carey Price, the greatest goalie in the world.

Goalies are the only players that can actually carry a team. And even then you need people to score.

Forwards cannot carry a team to the playoffs.

 

[Blitzago*]

Thank you, you just proved my point. One player can carry a team to the playoffs, and it doesn't need to be Carey Price, the greatest goalie in the world.

Your point was Nash carried them to the playoffs?

 

[Originally Posted By*]

PP performance, defense, winning games, consistency of scoring are all part of a player.

Kane is getting discredit for being on a better team lol that's not fair, every team is better than Oilers so technically no comparisons are fair

Except for Johnny hockey and Hall, of course

 

[ChaoticOrange]

PP performance, defense, winning games, consistency of scoring are all part of a player.

All scorers are streaky. This is fact.

Teams win games. Players do not.

I swear this board's fascination with trading our best players because they're not best enough drives me bat**** crazy. It's the same bass-ackwards logic spouted by the group that couldn't wait to see Petry shipped out of town. Did y'all like Justin Schultz, #1 defenceman this year? Wouldn't have had to see that with Petry still around.

 

[CupofOil]

I'm really enjoying seeing the poster who derides Hall for not being a regular 80 point player saying a guy who hit 80 points once in 8 seasons (and then only at a time when scoring league wide was juiced) is the greatest player in the world. The hits keep coming.

You guys comparing Kane and Hall as players is equally ridiculous.

I don't understand why there can't be a middle ground between Hall having 3rd line skills and Hall being compared to the elite players in the league. It's always one ridiculous extreme to another around here from hater to homer. I guess such is expected on an Edmonton board but still....

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

All scorers are streaky. This is fact.

Teams win games. Players do not.

I swear this board's fascination with trading our best players because they're not best enough drives me bat**** crazy. It's the same bass-ackwards logic spouted by the group that couldn't wait to see Petry shipped out of town. Did y'all like Justin Schultz, #1 defenceman this year? Wouldn't have had to see that with Petry still around.

Goalies can hide **** teams. Forwards can not.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

You guys comparing Kane and Hall as players is equally ridiculous.

I don't understand why there can't be a middle ground between Hall having 3rd line skills and Hall being compared to the elite players in the league. It's always one ridiculous extreme to another around here from hater to homer. I guess such is expected on an Edmonton board but still....

Kane is better than Hall.
Hall is a top 5 left wing.
Kane is the best right wing.
Those are facts

 

[CupofOil]

Kane is better than Hall.
Hall is a top 5 left wing.
Kane is the best right wing.
Those are facts

No argument there but some posters seem to think they are fairly close because Kane has a better supporting cast.

Look, Hall is a very good player and I'm glad to have him on my team but until the team pulls itself out of the basement, he's not going to get enough respect. It's just the way it is.

 

[Originally Posted By*]

Kane is better than Hall.
Hall is a top 5 left wing.
Kane is the best right wing.
Those are facts

I can respect that

 

[Pressure]

No argument there but some posters seem to think they are fairly close because Kane has a better supporting cast.

It's not even close. It's a terrible comparison.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

No argument there but some posters seem to think they are fairly close because Kane has a better supporting cast.

I think the arguement is that one of the reasons Kane can be do good is because of 2 great d. Without them he wouldn't look quite as good but still better than Hall

 

[McDraekke]

Speak about overrated players.

Crosby and Ovi are in their own tier. Then you have a tier of Malkin, Stamkos and Kane then you have a slight drop off to Benn, Seguin, Giroux, Getzlaf and Tavares then it gets cluttered after that with Hall not even being in that next tier which would be Kopitar, Perry, Tarasenko etc.

You can't just say that since Kane is in a better situation that his value as a player is devalued. If that's the case, you can say that about every player in the league compared to Hall since they are all in better situations.

If you feel that Hall and Kane are close as players, I can't do much to change your opinion but you can see just by watching them play the difference in skill level. It's night and day really.

Your tiers are either ridiculously close to one another, or you aren't rating players correctly. If people call Hall not elite, due to having a slumping second half, how the hell can you include Getzlaf in a tier two above where you MIGHT put Hall after the atrocious start to this season?

Kopitar and Tarasenko are at least in the tier with Benn and Seguin. And I would put Hall there as well. Do you see the overwhelming evidence of these players being "above" Hall in your estimations? They are on teams who are/have been on successful teams. How can you not see that if Hall were on a successful team that he would improve dramatically?

 

[McDraekke]

No argument there but some posters seem to think they are fairly close because Kane has a better supporting cast.

They are fairly close. Top 5 to Top is not a very big difference. Is Kane better? Yes. Is he worth the difference in contract $? Not in my opinion. On the Oilers, with the same teammates, Kane would not be putting up the kind of numbers he is this season. But I can definitely agree that Kane would have more points.

 

[Originally Posted By*]

Kane is better than Hall.
Hall is a top 5 left wing.
Kane is the best right wing.
Those are facts

If we can add Hall is a top 5 left wing with warts, I'd be more than happy with that assesment

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Look at all the scorers ahead of Hall. Look at their d scoring compared to ours.

Paints a picture

 

[McDraekke]

If we can add Hall is a top 5 left wing with warts, I'd be more than happy with that assesment

Every player has warts, dammit.

 

[Originally Posted By*]

They are fairly close. Top 5 to Top is not a very big difference. Is Kane better? Yes. Is he worth the difference in contract $? Not in my opinion. On the Oilers, with the same teammates, Kane would not be putting up the kind of numbers he is this season. But I can definitely agree that Kane would have more points.

Not even close man lol you are losing credibility by the second.

It is not too late to admit you made a mistake in the heat of the moment.

 

[Pressure]

Your tiers are either ridiculously close to one another, or you aren't rating players correctly. If people call Hall not elite, due to having a slumping second half, how the hell can you include Getzlaf in a tier two above where you MIGHT put Hall after the atrocious start to this season?

Kopitar and Tarasenko are at least in the tier with Benn and Seguin. And I would put Hall there as well. Do you see the overwhelming evidence of these players being "above" Hall in your estimations? They are on teams who are/have been on successful teams. How can you not see that if Hall were on a successful team that he would improve dramatically?

I understand as Oilers fans we overrate our players, I get it. But if you watch these players, and these teams, you'll realize they make their teams better. You can't even compare Hall to Getzlaf. I think that's a joke just as bad as comparing Hall to Kane. Kopitar is worth every penny. Not even close.

 

[Musashi]

You should care. If we trade Hall and get, say, Zach Bogosian and a couple picks and a prospect, that is a colossal net loss. Our defence would be better, sure, but there are smarter ways to go about it.

Say it with me. Top Pairing. NOT Top 4 for Hall.

Top pairing? Might as well say unicorn. I say top 4 on other teams in hope that they will be top pairing and difference makers here.

Bogosion as an example would not be ideal but I would also be keying on a middle six forward in the trade who can continue to help us be harder to play against, not just picks and prospects.

And that's only if other trade avenues have been explored and have not worked. Not saying you don't have the right to be against these "fleecing" deals but if it truly did improve the defense enough to also help facilitate the offense we still had and made us a competitive team next year, would you still be sulking in the corner because Hall wears a different jersey?

 

[Young Lions*]

Speak about overrated players.

Crosby and Ovi are in their own tier. Then you have a tier of Malkin, Stamkos and Kane then you have a slight drop off to Benn, Seguin, Giroux, Getzlaf and Tavares then it gets cluttered after that with Hall not even being in that next tier which would be Kopitar, Perry, Tarasenko etc.

You can't just say that since Kane is in a better situation that his value as a player is devalued. If that's the case, you can say that about every player in the league compared to Hall since they are all in better situations.

Well it's a good thing I didn't say anything of the sort. I would not have thought the idea that playing with good players is a good thing would be controversial.

If you feel that Hall and Kane are close as players, I can't do much to change your opinion but you can see just by watching them play the difference in skill level. It's night and day really.

Which is a completely different argument altogether.

 

[CupofOil]

Your tiers are either ridiculously close to one another, or you aren't rating players correctly. If people call Hall not elite, due to having a slumping second half, how the hell can you include Getzlaf in a tier two above where you MIGHT put Hall after the atrocious start to this season?

Kopitar and Tarasenko are at least in the tier with Benn and Seguin. And I would put Hall there as well. Do you see the overwhelming evidence of these players being "above" Hall in your estimations? They are on teams who are/have been on successful teams. How can you not see that if Hall were on a successful team that he would improve dramatically?

But that's all hypothetical. What he has done so far is put up points in a bunch of meaningless games yet to elevate his team out of the bottom 3 of the league with lots of skilled forwards surrounding him including one of the premier talents to ever grace the league. Far from his fault but these are the facts.

What you're saying is IF Hall was on a winning team, he would be as good as those guys but that's not the case so all we can do is base it on the players we see today and Hall is less accomplished than those other players.

The bottom line is until the Oilers start winning, Hall won't get much respect. Unfair as it may be, that's the way it is right now.
Also, he has more flaws than those other top players do. Namely puck management and 2 way play.