Tank or re-tool on the fly?

[Luongos Knob]

Dishonour for Connor!!!!!

 

[nameless1]

There's a huge difference between what these 2 teams did.

The problem with the Oilers is that they decided to go completely with their youth and didn't have veterans to help guide the team and mentor the young. The Pens had a lot of vets on their roster when Crosby and Malkin first came in - they learned from seasoned vets - led of course by Lemieux, but that team also had Recchi, Palffy, Gonchar, and Leclair.

The Oilers thought they could just let their youth run with it and develop on their own... and then made things even worse by recycling rookie coaches to guide them. This is why even with their most talented players you see holes in their games.

The proper way to rebuild, IMO, is to have good leaders and respected vets around for your youth to lean on - and not to stack the roster with young players, but bring them in gradually learning from the vets. This is what we saw in Pittsburgh.. what we always see in Detroit, what we've seen in the past in Colorado (though they are a very young roster this time around).

Teams that seemed to be forever stuck in rebuild, like the Oilers, or Thrashers in the past, or Isles, etc, seem to focus so much to finding as many spots for their up and comers that they ignore the importance of having good veteran leaders to help that development process. Don't want to see the Canucks caught in that cycle. The Sedins, Hamhuis, Bieksa - these guys are going to be invaluable IMO in helping the next wave develop.

I agree.
We have the good veteran leaders.
It is a wasted opportunity...
In my opinion.

 

[Icebreakers]

The Oiler way of rebuilding requires luck. We dont need 4 top 3 picks. We just need 1.

 

[Takumi3000]

There's a huge difference between what these 2 teams did.

The problem with the Oilers is that they decided to go completely with their youth and didn't have veterans to help guide the team and mentor the young. The Pens had a lot of vets on their roster when Crosby and Malkin first came in - they learned from seasoned vets - led of course by Lemieux, but that team also had Recchi, Palffy, Gonchar, and Leclair.

The Oilers thought they could just let their youth run with it and develop on their own... and then made things even worse by recycling rookie coaches to guide them. This is why even with their most talented players you see holes in their games.

The proper way to rebuild, IMO, is to have good leaders and respected vets around for your youth to lean on - and not to stack the roster with young players, but bring them in gradually learning from the vets. This is what we saw in Pittsburgh.. what we always see in Detroit, what we've seen in the past in Colorado (though they are a very young roster this time around).

Teams that seemed to be forever stuck in rebuild, like the Oilers, or Thrashers in the past, or Isles, etc, seem to focus so much to finding as many spots for their up and comers that they ignore the importance of having good veteran leaders to help that development process. Don't want to see the Canucks caught in that cycle. The Sedins, Hamhuis, Bieksa - these guys are going to be invaluable IMO in helping the next wave develop.

Your absolutely right. Great post. If we can get a young elite franchise level talent to get mentored into eventually taking over that would be ideal. But we need to grab that player first. How? Fastest way is to tank one season for McJesus.

It is highly unlikely to be able to trade for a player like this because why would other teams give them up? And no way will you find a player like that in free agency. We have to get that high draft pick.

Also want to mention that Guerin really helped out Crosby. Great veteran leader there. You can see that big hole missing these past few years without these kind of leaders on the Penguins.

 

[realist99]

Tank just this one year, sign some FA's this offseason at high salary 1 year deals, promising to trade them to a contender of their choosing at the deadline and retain 50% on each and flip them for picks in 2015, get a top 5 pick, take a center with that top 5 pick that has potential 1C in him. The year after that, insert young players who will more than likely be ready. (Horvat, Shinkaruk etc), and compliment them with vets with good skill to play along side of.. Make the playoffs and make at least Round 2, and don't tank from then on.

I thought I was the only one that liked that idea.

I think it is brilliant. Overpay a guy that has just had a bad season. Tell him he will get a ton of ice time and will be able to raise his stock to get a good payday the following year ....and yes, that you will trade him at the deadline to a contender.

 

[Ventana*]

This "retooling on the fly" is just going to turn this team into another Calgary or Toronto. Definitely don't want that.

Why does it have to be "tank oilers style?" Why can't it be "tank Avalanche style?"

Exactly. Tank for one year, get an absolute stud #1 Center that can be the face of your franchise, and then start trying to compete again.

 

[stuffradio]

i dont want to tank "oilers style", but I would like to tank this upcomming season, then get back to trying to be competitive

You can't win the lottery by tanking. The only thing you can do is not make the playoffs then have a chance to win the lottery. We likely won't make the playoffs anyway, so we are fine.

 

[Tim McCracken]

Oiler style could also be Penguins style IMO...

“What’s the Pittsburgh model?†Burke said. “They won a God-damned lottery and they got the best player in the game."

I realize he said that when he was with the Leafs but I wanted to use this pic 'cause of the hair!

 

[Wilch]

McDavid would be a god if he can have the Sedins mentoring him.

 

[Takumi3000]

You can't win the lottery by tanking. The only thing you can do is not make the playoffs then have a chance to win the lottery. We likely won't make the playoffs anyway, so we are fine.

Vancouver doesn't even need to win the lottery for the 2015 draft. Loads of elite talent after McJesus.

 

[realist99]

“What’s the Pittsburgh model?†Burke said. “They won a God-damned lottery and they got the best player in the game."

I realize he said that when he was with the Leafs but I wanted to use this pic 'cause of the hair!

Does it get any better than that? A picture of hippy Burke with a Rob Ford avatar

 

[DarrenX]

We still don't have a franchise player for the future. Need one by any means necessary.

Do the Kings have a "franchise player"? Sure, Doughty's pretty good but he's not really a 'franchise player'... he didn't even get a Norris nomination. None of the rest of their core came as high first round picks IIRC.

I'd say the Kings don't have a franchise player in the sense you're thinking of, but it doesn't seem to be holding them back much.

 

[Icebreakers]

Do the Kings have a "franchise player"? Sure, Doughty's pretty good but he's not really a 'franchise player'... he didn't even get a Norris nomination. None of the rest of their core came as high first round picks IIRC.

I'd say the Kings don't have a franchise player in the sense you're thinking of, but it doesn't seem to be holding them back much.

wtf? Doughty is the definition of a Franchise player. Kopitar is also a Franchise player. Hes as good if not better than Toews.

 

[Takumi3000]

McDavid would be a god if he can have the Sedins mentoring him.

That's great but the real difference will be Bieksa and Hamhuis I think. Veteran players on the backend that acts like a safety net for young players when they make mistakes. Compare that to the Oilers. Whenever they make mistakes its going to cost them because their defence are just a bunch of pylons. It inspires no confidence in their forwards.

 

[Takumi3000]

wtf? Doughty is the definition of a Franchise player. Kopitar is also a Franchise player. Hes as good if not better than Toews.

@DarrenX: Lmao. Doughty not a franchise player? Guess 2 Stanley Cups in 3 years is not good enough.

 

[cooker24]

The easiest way to re-tool on the fly is by tanking one season, drafting McDavid, and then riding the next potential superstar to a run of successful years.

 

[Karl Hungus]

I could see making a shrewd deal to get a top two pick that addresses the Canuck's needs long term but I really hope we never bottom out for years on end. If your franchise player picks are drafted into a dysfunctional organization where losing is the norm they won't develop properly. If Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov had all been drafted by Nashville I think they'd be much better players today.

 

[nameless1]

The Boston Bruins say hello

Sure...
Benning came from Boston...
And Boston won because it made good trades...
And drafted well.
However...
Is it solely because of Benning?
How much did he contributed to Boston's success?
Nobody really knows.

At the end of the day...
He is still a rookie GM...
Without any track records.
Where he came from does not dictate future success...
And it means absolutely nothing...
Unless he can show results.

I will give Benning the benefit of the doubt for now...
But so far...
I have not liked any of his moves.
I hope I am completely wrong...
And he proves to be smarter than me.

 

[Garth Butcher]

there is talk with the GM's wanting to change the draft lotto to one ball per team, meaning finishing 1st or last you still have the same chance at getting the number 1 pick. the idea is to stop rewarding teams for running their clubs into the ground.

 

[Tim McCracken]

This "retooling on the fly" is just going to turn this team into another Calgary or Toronto. Definitely don't want that.

Why does it have to be "tank oilers style?" Why can't it be "tank Avalanche style?"

Ok, ok I should have used a bold RISK in the my original post and poll. Avalanche missed the playoffs for 3 years straight and 5 of 7, do you think Canucks fans can take that? What if it was a bad RISK and went Oilers style?

 

[Takumi3000]

The easiest way to re-tool on the fly is by tanking one season, drafting McDavid, and then riding the next potential superstar to a run of successful years.

This is not only the easiest way but also the most logical. What else are you going to do? Overpay for all the free agents this year like Stasny, Vanek, etc? Guess what they will still get steamrolled by the teams of the West. Trade for elite players? Sorry Kopitar, Toews, Kane, etc aren't available for trade. Go draft your own elite players.

 

[DarrenX]

delete-moved

 

[NFITO]

Your absolutely right. Great post. If we can get a young elite franchise level talent to get mentored into eventually taking over that would be ideal. But we need to grab that player first. How? Fastest way is to tank one season for McJesus.

It is highly unlikely to be able to trade for a player like this because why would other teams give them up? And no way will you find a player like that in free agency. We have to get that high draft pick.

Also want to mention that Guerin really helped out Crosby. Great veteran leader there. You can see that big hole missing these past few years without these kind of leaders on the Penguins.

the Pens got lucky - really lucky - that they happened to have their worst years when Crosby and Malkin were available. But you don't need that top pick to land in your lap to build a franchise that way.

Look at Detroit. It's the same thing with them. They didn't get a top pick they could groom, but had top veteran leaders to help develop their youth, and of course have a great scouting and development team to find and develop those gems. That's a more realistic goal for Vancouver. Invest in those areas and you'll find those gems eventually.

Colorado was in a similar situation for many years. They didn't get their top pick until recently, but won their Cups thanks to vets leading the way - that weren't drafted first overall.

New Jersey had a similar program for years.

Young talented players develop better when they have guys like Lemieux, Yzerman, Sakic, Stevens, Niedermayer, etc to learn from. Hell we saw that first hand in Vancouver with the impact that Mats Sundin had on the Sedins and Kesler - all of whom have said that Sundin had a big impact on their overall development into star players.

That's the culture I hope the Canucks can create for their prospects coming up. That's why I'd love to see Iginla signed here (though I doubt there's any chance he will). I think the impact he could have on Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, Horvat, etc could be significant.

 

[Takumi3000]

there is talk with the GM's wanting to change the draft lotto to one ball per team, meaning finishing 1st or last you still have the same chance at getting the number 1 pick. the idea is to stop rewarding teams for running their clubs into the ground.

Yes that's correct. It is currently being discussed and may be implemented by 2016 draft at the earliest. So what does this mean? One last opportunity to tank for McJesus

 

[Iridescent*]

I want a one year tank. We need a franchise center, and we'll be able to get one in the next draft. Get him, then start the re-tooling process and making splashes in FA.

McDavid is a once in a lifetime player. We aren't going to be competitive. We'd be crazy to not get in on the sweepstakes.