Tank or re-tool on the fly?

[opendoor]

For the record i have not read any of the other comments. I say re-tool and im buying season tickets. I say re-tool because of teams like the avs and ducks. Both have had hit and miss seasons due to Injuries and with help from drafts they have bounced back quickly.
In a way shows how fickle the owners are,one year for exsample you cant sell Stasney off the avs for picks,the avs bounce back and hes the top free agent out there.

The Avalanche are hardly an example of a retool given that 3 of their top 4 scorers were guys they picked at 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the draft in recent years.

The Ducks are a better example but that was only possible because Getzlaf and Perry are still in their prime. The Canucks went through a similar phase in 2008 when they could do a sort of retool around the Sedins who were 28 years old. Now that they're 34 years old, that's not really a viable strategy.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

The Avalanche are hardly an example of a retool given that 3 of their top 4 scorers were guys they picked at 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the draft in recent years.

The Ducks are a better example but that was only possible because Getzlaf and Perry are still in their prime. The Canucks went through a similar phase in 2008 when they could do a sort of retool around the Sedins who were 28 years old. Now that they're 34 years old, that's not really a viable strategy.

I think that's the key point. We did our retool in 2007-08 and our core was still young.

Same with Anaheim most recently.

It won't happen again. This core is clearly on the decline now. No arguing that.

Teams like SJ did an exceptional job of building a new core while the old one was still effective, and it's really a shame their fans couldn't get rewarded with a Cup.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Lol @ people arguing semantics about "this team did this and this team did that."

The draft is the single best way to acquire elite franchise players.

The overwhelming percentage of these franchise players are picked in the top 5.

Therefore, the single best way to acquire franchise players to help the Canucks have success over the next decade is for them to pick in the Top 5.

..........someone like McDavid or Eichel.

I agree with the above bolded statements.....and what makes you think we'd finish bottom 5??

I see at the very bottom you've turned top 5 into top 2. Look at how at laughably terrible the Oilers were last year, and they picked 3rd.

 

[jigsaw99]

i say our team is worst than last year on paper which puts us again in the top 5 bottom team next year. Lets see the condidates to be in the lottery against this year and how they changed and added players to their lineup for next season.

Florida (improved)
Dave Bolland
Brad Boyes
Jussi Jokinen
Willie Mitchell
also Ekblad

Loses: Tom Gilbert

Florida has improved significantly and also their top prospects are geting better not to mention they will be starting with Lou in net next year. I say they can easily finish ahead of Canucks and is now looking a chance at the playoffs.

Sabres (improved)
Matt Moulson
Brian Gionta
Sam Reinhart
Josh Gorges
Andrej Meszaros

Loses: Ehrhoff

Some improvement but they might trade Myers and also no goalies still. still a strong candidate for the lottery and a favorite to finish last in the East.

Edmonton (improved)
Benoit Pouliot
Teddy Purcell
Nikita Nikitin
Mark Fayne
Leon Driesatal

Loses: Ryan Smyth, Gagner

Added depth. This team will be better due to the Yakupovs,Hall,Eberles,RNH getting another 1 older. Goalies still questionable again. Will be competitive with the Canucks this year sadly.

Flames: (same)
Mason Raymond
Jonas Hiller
Deryk Engelland
Sam Bennet

Loses: Cammalleri

Improve their defense but still easily the favorite for being dead last in the West and the league.

Islanders (improved)
Grabovski
Kulemin
Jaroslav Halak

Loses: Nabokov

Team looks improved. Expect a guy like Strome to step up also.

New candidate would include Arizona since they loses Vrbata, Ribeiro and got nothing back. And also Winnipeg for being Winnipeg. Ottawa for losing Spezza and Hemsky

 

[RandV]

And if we kick their draft position down in 2006 and 2007 by 5 spots, they'd have Peter Mueller and Sam Gagner instead of Toews and Kane.

It wouldn't have mattered who their GM was, they'd have 0 cups right now and still be toiling away in mediocrity.

Yes, Tallon didn't choose to tank, but he was the beneficiary to a first and third overall.

Mueller had 54 points in the NHL 2 years after being drafted before i believe concussions did him in, and Gagner well... was rushed to the NHL early and developed in that Oiler culture. Could be very different players had they been drafted by Chicago, who also could have wen with someone else. Also coincidentally Chicago also won the lottery that year, without a bit of luck they would have ended up with Alzner.

Regardless though, LA/Chicago like don't win 4 Cups without these guys, but it's good management that turned the teams around, as you can see with these teams despite being on top they still produce quality players. Really we can only speculate what could have been, but there's plenty of examples of poorly run teams drafting franchise players and continuing to suck. Atlanta Thrashers were the poster child for this back in the day.

 

[jigsaw99]

Mueller had 54 points in the NHL 2 years after being drafted before i believe concussions did him in, and Gagner well... was rushed to the NHL early and developed in that Oiler culture. Could be very different players had they been drafted by Chicago, who also could have wen with someone else. Also coincidentally Chicago also won the lottery that year, without a bit of luck they would have ended up with Alzner.

Regardless though, LA/Chicago like don't win 4 Cups without these guys, but it's good management that turned the teams around, as you can see with these teams despite being on top they still produce quality players. Really we can only speculate what could have been, but there's plenty of examples of poorly run teams drafting franchise players and continuing to suck. Atlanta Thrashers were the poster child for this back in the day.

how would Muller and Gagner be different if they started in Chicago? Kane start at 18 year of age right after the draft year and Toews had one extra year in college. both started their careers in a rebuliding team. These guys are obvious different talent levels. Gagner played with Kane in London and scored half as many goals as him.

 

[RandV]

People seem to think rebuilding is just a switch you can flip, go into hibernation for a few seasons, then come out as Stanley Cup contenders. This whole debate though, I really think a massive underlying influence is the 'be a GM mode' or any of the other many hockey/GM simulators that have been readily available for the past 15 or so years.

Play you're own hand at being GM, and it's damn easy to do the above. Extremely easy when playing single player against AI GM's, and still easy playing against other people. You can ignore your fans, the business side, your coaching & other staff, your players, the negative rap from the league/media/other GM's, and so on, to run a scorched Earth policy guaranteeing yourself a few top picks. Or the #2 pick if you lose the lottery.

I understand full well that are team likely isn't in contention for the Stanley Cup this season, but I also see how damaging and fruitless it would be to tank for McDavid.

 

[SgtToody]

This roster isn't as bad as last year's result but the division is fearsome; a repeat isn't completely impossible. I still see the Canucks in a race for 7-8 until February, but I think it's foolish to also think the teams below us can't show significant improvement.
While Edmonton continues to look like an inbred gong show, they have stockpiled some nice top-line talent that just could start to mesh. We all mock Calgary's failed rebuild model of a few years ago, the assets they've added and the general honest, gutsy effort they've exhibited last season could be a positive harbinger.... I'm seeing better decisions on FA acquisition front on both Buffalo and NYI front. No, the teams I see gaining ground in the tank-now movement are Carolina, Phoenix and Florida. Being a US-run corporation, the NHL likely wouldn't mind seeing the 2 next superstars landing in any of those locales. We could be looking at 4th to 12th, in my estimate.

 

[Archangel]

I am willing to bet a beer that the canucks will be atleast ten points on top of the oilers. They spent poorly this off season on fringe players

 

[jigsaw99]

I am willing to bet a beer that the canucks will be atleast ten points on top of the oilers. They spent poorly this off season on fringe players

that's assuming their 20-22 yrs old players don't improve and our 33-34 yr old players don't regress

 

[arttk]

that's assuming their 20-22 yrs old players don't improve and our 33-34 yr old players don't regress

Well, it seems like they have Draisaitl pencilled in on the 2nd line. Good luck with that and also getting the kids who need contract soon (Yak and Schultz) to improve their defense.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I think having another 2 picks in the 1st round next year is crucial. Somebody has to get moved at the deadline.

Paul fricking Guastad got a 1st. Im sure we can move somebody for a 1st at the playoff deadline.

Package them both up to move down or use both.

Look at the returns Kesler, Garrison and Spezza all garnered. Do you think we're getting multiple firsts out of teams for 2015? We might if we hold 50% on the Sedins or deal Hamhuis, but those will be late firsts from playoff teams.

 

[Patchey*]

Tank on the Fly?

 

[SgtToody]

I am willing to bet a beer that the canucks will be atleast ten points on top of the oilers. They spent poorly this off season on fringe players

Based on the # of players coming into their prime and the # of players exiting their prime on both rosters, I would gladly take that bet. Nothing in life is guaranteed, but to expect everything to stay the same -- as evident by the predictable swirl last year became - would be folly.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Tank on the Fly?

As funny as it sounds, it's possible. Sort of like how the AV's didnt have to suck for a decade. They sucked enough to get Duchene, Landeskog and MacKinnon. Combine that with good drafting and good trades they're pretty much set for the next decade. Something we definitely cannot say about us, or something were even close to for that matter.

That's really what I want us to do. Suck hard when it's obvious were not competing to obtain high draft picks for 3/4 years. Load up on assets and prospects. And when the time comes when can gradually sign UFA's to act as stop-gaps and veteran leaders to guide our youngsters.

Right now we are treading in mediocrity. With Miller this team won't be bad enough for top 5, another 10-15 pick. We already missed out on the top 5 prospects with the 6th pick this year, it's going to keep happening at this pace.

Avs are the way we should be looking at. Incorporate lots of youth into our roster and trade off assets for picks (Edler, Burrows, Higgins). When we have lots of youth we will usually have a very poor team which leads to high draft picks. Agreed on keeping Sedins and Hamhuis and couple others for leadership development.

 

[RandV]

As funny as it sounds, it's possible. Sort of like how the AV's didnt have to suck for a decade. They sucked enough to get Duchene, Landeskog and MacKinnon. Combine that with good drafting and good trades they're pretty much set for the next decade. Something we definitely cannot say about us, or something were even close to for that matter.

That's really what I want us to do. Suck hard when it's obvious were not competing to obtain high draft picks for 3/4 years. Load up on assets and prospects. And when the time comes when can gradually sign UFA's to act as stop-gaps and veteran leaders to guide our youngsters.

Right now we are treading in mediocrity. With Miller this team won't be bad enough for top 5, another 10-15 pick. We already missed out on the top 5 prospects with the 6th pick this year, it's going to keep happening at this pace.

Avs are the way we should be looking at. Incorporate lots of youth into our roster and trade off assets for picks (Edler, Burrows, Higgins). When we have lots of youth we will usually have a very poor team which leads to high draft picks. Agreed on keeping Sedins and Hamhuis and couple others for leadership development.

What happened with the Avs? Roy retired with the team. Sakic retired with the team. Hejduk retired a with the time. Forsberg, Blake, and Foote left via free agency. Tanguay and Drury were traded for a dmen only 1 and 2 years younger (Leopold & Morris). Then the rest of their prospects post-Hejduk/Drury/Tanguay never really amounted to anything.

Colorado never 'tanked'. With the dominant team they let their stars run their course, and after the 10 year run half left for greener pastures while they still had time and the other half retired part of the team. They failed to develop replacement players for guys like Sakic/Hejduk/Foote/Roy, and what was left was bad enough that they finished at the bottom of standings for a few seasons... though they did manage to sneak one playoff year in there.

What can we take from this? Just look at them now. Even if the Canucks don't start 'tanking' now, if nothing pans out in 2 years we'll hit that bottom anyways, and the collection of top picks will come. Calgary is another example of this, for all the talk of this 'Calgary' scenario people are placing our team under, despite waiting too long and getting practically nothing for Iginla their 'rebuild' is moving along regardless.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Look at the returns Kesler, Garrison and Spezza all garnered. Do you think we're getting multiple firsts out of teams for 2015? We might if we hold 50% on the Sedins or deal Hamhuis, but those will be late firsts from playoff teams.

We got bent over in the Kesler deal.

We should've gotten one of: Etem, DSP or the 10th overall, along with a top 6 player or good prospect.

Instead we got a 3rd line center, a 7th defencemen and a late 1st rounder in a weak draft.

If we had traded Garrison at the deadline to a team that needed help on D, we could've gotten a late 1st for him. Even if we got a 2nd, a 2nd in 2015 is much more valuable than a 2nd in 2014.

Using Benning's desperation trades to make the team "competitive" as a benchmark for what our assets are actually worth is not a good indicator of their true value.

If ownership gave management permission to rebuild like we should be doing, I have no doubt that we could acquire at least one more 1st round pick in the 2015 draft, along with our own pick which would be top 5 if we hadn't signed Miller and Vrbata in order to "chase the dream" of making the playoffs and winning a Stanley Cup with a roster who's window is closed.

 

[Havre]

I'm quite happy with the way we are trying to do things now. Physically I don't see any reason why the Sedins' can't bounce back. If they do then players like Miller (even if I thought that was a poor signing) and Vrbata will be very useful. And as we have seen in the play-offs anything can happen.

However, If the Sedins can't get back to 70+ points then we will, with the current quality of the West, "tank", regardless what the intention is.

And if that happens already this season - then the season after won't be any better. I just pray we can keep going for 1-2 more seasons. We then either got prospects in Horvat, Shinkaruk etc. that allow for a Detroit-style endless re-tooling or we will go to the bottom as the Sedins', Bieksa, Burrows etc. close in on retirement.

Ending up at the bottom in 2016-2017 would be "OK" though. A couple of high picks and we should be able to bounce back fairly quickly. Because even if our current prospects might not be good enough to carry a team already then I still think we got a set of young players that will be very useful in the NHL 2017 and onwards.

 

[Archangel]

i say our team is worst than last year on paper which puts us again in the top 5 bottom team next year. Lets see the condidates to be in the lottery against this year and how they changed and added players to their lineup for next season.

Florida (improved)
Dave Bolland
Brad Boyes
Jussi Jokinen
Willie Mitchell
also Ekblad

Loses: Tom Gilbert

Florida has improved significantly and also their top prospects are geting better not to mention they will be starting with Lou in net next year. I say they can easily finish ahead of Canucks and is now looking a chance at the playoffs.

Sabres (improved)
Matt Moulson
Brian Gionta
Sam Reinhart
Josh Gorges
Andrej Meszaros

Loses: Ehrhoff

Some improvement but they might trade Myers and also no goalies still. still a strong candidate for the lottery and a favorite to finish last in the East.

Edmonton (improved)
Benoit Pouliot
Teddy Purcell
Nikita Nikitin
Mark Fayne
Leon Driesatal

Loses: Ryan Smyth, Gagner

Added depth. This team will be better due to the Yakupovs,Hall,Eberles,RNH getting another 1 older. Goalies still questionable again. Will be competitive with the Canucks this year sadly.

Flames: (same)
Mason Raymond
Jonas Hiller
Deryk Engelland
Sam Bennet

Loses: Cammalleri

Improve their defense but still easily the favorite for being dead last in the West and the league.

Islanders (improved)
Grabovski
Kulemin
Jaroslav Halak

Loses: Nabokov

Team looks improved. Expect a guy like Strome to step up also.

New candidate would include Arizona since they loses Vrbata, Ribeiro and got nothing back. And also Winnipeg for being Winnipeg. Ottawa for losing Spezza and Hemsky

oilers have not improved. They gave long term contracts to waiver wire guys who have cleared

 

[Iridescent*]

Look at the returns Kesler, Garrison and Spezza all garnered. Do you think we're getting multiple firsts out of teams for 2015? We might if we hold 50% on the Sedins or deal Hamhuis, but those will be late firsts from playoff teams.

For sure. We are talking about one of the best drafts in the past 10 years here. Possibly a dozen or so franchise players available all throughout the first and second rounds. No way is anybody parting with their picks.

I don't even think we'll see many 2nd round picks moved.

 

[crazychimp]

The way I see it is this team has has veteran players signed to 3-4 years of course some could be traded between now and then but by the time these contract's have expired we'll have youth already in the lineup and I'm guessing two of Hansen, Higgins, Burrows (if not all three) are traded and we'll have a good base of young players a core if you will, the Sedins by then have retired and the young players will compete we won't be good enough to make the playoffs maybe we'll be picking in the top 5-10 hopefully a franchise player, that's my only concern at this point we've had Linden, Bure, Naslund and the Sedins we need a frachise player unless we've already drafted someone that will surprise us in the future.