Tampa: Swap Stamkos and Kucherov on/off the LTIR?

[PRZ45MD]

Fortunate in terms that the entire season was shortened (to what is the usual recovery time for that sort of hip surgery). If this were a normal-length season, this move would not have been possible without the team/player lying about their recovery. I think it's pretty clear that TB saw that time-frame, and opted to push forward with the surgery at the beginning rather than the end, of the season, as a means of keeping the team together for another Cup run without actually addressing their salary cap concerns. Again--not illegal as per the written rules, but shady in that it enables them to have 10 million more cap dollars than other teams in the playoffs.

Your use of the word "shady" is intentionally shady itself. You're inferring motives you have no way of knowing while implying some ill-defined nefariousness on the part of the Lightning.

Some better words for you to use to drop the trolling you're doing of TB Fans and fluffing of anti-TB fans would be: opportunistic, savvy, or clever.

 

[AndreRoy]

Going for another irrelevant cup win

Which would make it three Cups for the Lightning and... I forget, how many for the Senators since both teams entered the league?

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I mean

If they were able to get pre-playoff games in for Kucherov somehow.... I'd be a little skeptical.
But I guess it's allowed...

 

[Jets]

Seems pretty simple. Tampa never had a compliant roster with their full team and Kucherov at any point this season. If Kucherov is going to be eligible for playoffs, he should have had to dress for at least 1 regular season game, which would require them to have a cap compliant roster with Kucherov on it. The spirit of the rule is to replace an injured guy with another, not to have a team roster that isn't even cap compliant at any point during the season.

It'll be interesting when he's "coincidentally" ready to play for game 1 of the playoffs and not a week sooner or a few days later too. Magic.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

This entire situation smells a lot like cap circumvention, no way for the league to definitively prove it though

 

[PRZ45MD]

It'll be interesting when he's "coincidentally" ready to play for game 1 of the playoffs and not a week sooner or a few days later too. Magic.

Or it could just be, you know, a coincidence. Or it could be opportunistic as the surgery needed to happen and the season's length made it an appealing option for the team and the player? But if you'd rather analyze the Zapruder Footage some more, have at it Q.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

This entire situation smells a lot like cap circumvention, no way for the league to definitively prove it though

It's 100% cap circumvention, just not illegal cap circumvention.

 

[Chips]

Seems pretty simple. Tampa never had a compliant roster with their full team and Kucherov at any point this season. If Kucherov is going to be eligible for playoffs, he should have had to dress for at least 1 regular season game, which would require them to have a cap compliant roster with Kucherov on it. The spirit of the rule is to replace an injured guy with another, not to have a team roster that isn't even cap compliant at any point during the season.

It'll be interesting when he's "coincidentally" ready to play for game 1 of the playoffs and not a week sooner or a few days later too. Magic.

For a variety of reasons business and otherwise (players themselves have a say, not just from a GMs perspective. they’re personally emotionally and professionally invested in actually playing) they won’t make players, especially stars sit out playoff games ever

it’s a weakness in the rule, as every rule has, there’s not a realistic perfect solution but they’d never make a guy like Kucherov sit out once healthy


They presumably view it like other roster imbalances due to luck (if we’re not assuming the injury or surgery was BSed); anything remotely like the scale/appearance of Kucherov is rare, 7 years ago Kane. You have to be pretty “lucky” and even then this case is even more random because covid circumstances affected it, or it couldn’t have happened (well, unless he tried to power through the injury, got injured worse with 4-5 months til playoffs and was on LTIR lol)


Teams lose players right before this round or that all the time, you’re icing 5, 10, 15 mil more than the other team; it’s one of those random chance “every winner has a bit of luck” things
Everyone’s acting like Kucherov will be perfect and or like no other bolt will get hurt, they’ll ice their absolute best case scenario on-paper wet dream roster.


Which honestly, is pretty overrated. They were not more dominant last regular season than the previous historic one they were swept after. Very very good, as or more capable than any other team sure if they get hot, but playoffs are always about timing and getting hot at the right time.

Kucherov coming back is nice but they’ll be far from invincible. Don’t be the least bit surprised if they don’t repeat.

 

[Chips]

It's 100% cap circumvention, just not illegal cap circumvention.

Sure, I guess, in the sense that literally every other team “circumvents” the cap when their player gets injured and placed in LTIR, as it was intended for

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That was my first thought, and now I'm seeing that Kucherov is back to practicing with full-contact. Very suspicious, although I'm not willing to suggest that Stamkos isn't actually injured.

 

[JoVel]

That was my first thought, and now I'm seeing that Kucherov is back to practicing with full-contact. Very suspicious, although I'm not willing to suggest that Stamkos isn't actually injured.

Stamkos being injured near the start of the playoffs is like the least suspicious thing on this planet. I'd rather believe the Earth being flat than Stamkos being healthy.

 

[Chips]

That was my first thought, and now I'm seeing that Kucherov is back to practicing with full-contact. Very suspicious, although I'm not willing to suggest that Stamkos isn't actually injured.

Where did you see that? Cooper said days ago, and today’s article reiterated hes “not close to contact”. In fact I believe he said not close to light contact

Excitement builds as Lightning’s Nikita Kucherov works his way back

 

[smoneil]

Your use of the word "shady" is intentionally shady itself. You're inferring motives you have no way of knowing while implying some ill-defined nefariousness on the part of the Lightning.

Some better words for you to use to drop the trolling you're doing of TB Fans and fluffing of anti-TB fans would be: opportunistic, savvy, or clever.

It was opportunistic, savvy, and clever, and it was completely within the rules as written. The "shady" aspect of it is the extreme probability that they engaged in that cleverness as a means of gaining a 10 million dollar cap advantage in the playoffs (ie: the motivation was to have an advantage that is legal but is competitively unfair to the other team). This is why I'm not saying that TB should be punished or anything like that. They played the rulebook beautifully. I just want to see an adjustment to that rulebook to close off that advantage that TB found.

 

[Chips]

It was opportunistic, savvy, and clever, and it was completely within the rules as written. The "shady" aspect of it is the extreme probability that they engaged in that cleverness as a means of gaining a 10 million dollar cap advantage in the playoffs (ie: the motivation was to have an advantage that is legal but is competitively unfair to the other team). This is why I'm not saying that TB should be punished or anything like that. They played the rulebook beautifully. I just want to see an adjustment to that rulebook to close off that advantage that TB found.

“Extremely” subjective description of events


Fair enough, supposedly they’re looking to “tweak” things but I only saw that on twitter, but I’m not sure that’d be remotely close to full on rule change

 

[bov]

It's called competent management working within the rules they are given. There is nothing shady whatsoever, unless you expect a GM to sabotage his own team to appease some people who don't even know what they're complaining about. This is what should be expected from any organization worth a shit, doing what they can to preserve their team amidst a cap crunch.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

This entire situation smells a lot like cap circumvention, no way for the league to definitively prove it though

The league absolutely could prove it. It requires the league to put forth some effort into it - and therein lies the problem: the league - and by the league I mean "most owners" - have no interest in pursuing it in case they need to do it themselves at some point.

Always remember: the refusal of the NHL to take meaningful steps to fix known shortcomings of the salary cap system and the choice to take half-assed solutions to non-problems that create more problems? It's a feature, not a bug.

 

[belair]

This entire situation smells a lot like cap circumvention, no way for the league to definitively prove it though

Sure they can. Just get teams to submit bi-weekly reports to the league on the medical condition of the players on LTIR. The doctors are league-appointed. Have the players tested frequently to guarantee whether or not they're in game shape.

I'm sure there would be a drastic decline in the number of LTIR cases in the league. There'd also be a significant number of teams over the cap ceiling.

 

[belair]

Sure they can. Just get teams to submit bi-weekly reports to the league on the medical condition of the players on LTIR. The doctors are league-appointed. Have the players tested frequently to guarantee whether or not they're in game shape.

I'm sure there would be a drastic decline in the number of LTIR cases in the league. There'd also be a significant number of teams over the cap ceiling.

That being said, I don't want this to happen.

The team just won the Stanley Cup is cheating. They know it, other teams know it, the league knows it and so do the fans. The salary cap is currently very difficult to maneuver with the flat cap situation. LTIR is a method many teams have been forced to utilize to stay cap compliant. If I see the NHL crack down on LTIR after watching Tampa Bay abuse it so obviously, punishing less competitive teams, I'll be very disappointed.

 

[Mach2]

...The team just won the Stanley Cup is cheating. They know it, other teams know it, the league knows it and so do the fans...

Please explain exactly and factually how the team just won the Stanley Cup is cheating.

 

[belair]

Please explain exactly and factually how the team just won the Stanley Cup is cheating.

They currently have a healthy player sitting on LTIR that is contributing to their ability to run a $98.7m payroll in an $81.5m cap environment. That player will be ready to go in Game 1 of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Additionally, although not cheating, the acquisition of Marian Gaborik's contract is a clear example of how teams utilize LTIR to circumvent the salary cap.

Please don't let the word 'cheat' trigger you. It isn't my point.

 

[AndreRoy]

Stamkos being injured near the start of the playoffs is like the least suspicious thing on this planet. I'd rather believe the Earth being flat than Stamkos being healthy.

Hell, last year he got injured near the start of the playoffs twice (once before the regularly-scheduled start and again before the Wuhan virus-delayed start) - the second time without even playing in a game. But to the conspiracy theorists one of the most competitive players in the league is willing to voluntarily sit out a season for no reason and one of the most oft-injured players in the league is faking it this time.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

They currently have a healthy player sitting on LTIR that is contributing to their ability to run a $98.7m payroll in an $81.5m cap environment. That player will be ready to go in Game 1 of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Additionally, although not cheating, the acquisition of Marian Gaborik's contract is a clear example of how teams utilize LTIR to circumvent the salary cap.

Please don't let the word 'cheat' trigger you. It isn't my point.

Dude, he had hip surgery just a few months ago. Calling him healthy is completely inaccurate.

 

[J T Money]

They currently have a healthy player sitting on LTIR that is contributing to their ability to run a $98.7m payroll in an $81.5m cap environment. That player will be ready to go in Game 1 of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Additionally, although not cheating, the acquisition of Marian Gaborik's contract is a clear example of how teams utilize LTIR to circumvent the salary cap.

Please don't let the word 'cheat' trigger you. It isn't my point.

He asked you to answer factually, so you will have no problem providing full details on which player is healthy, right?

Don’t answer that based on your feelings or what you think - answer with facts and evidence to back up said facts.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

They currently have a healthy player sitting on LTIR that is contributing to their ability to run a $98.7m payroll in an $81.5m cap environment. That player will be ready to go in Game 1 of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Additionally, although not cheating, the acquisition of Marian Gaborik's contract is a clear example of how teams utilize LTIR to circumvent the salary cap.

Please don't let the word 'cheat' trigger you. It isn't my point.

Isn't Edmonton using the exact same thing, you know LTIR, to go over the cap? Am I wrong to think that Edmonton isn't over the cap right now also?

 

[AfroThunder396]

It is in the league's best interest for every team to be cap compliant. They have no reason to enforce cap circumvention in the season. Even in the offseason, cap circumvention will only be enforced in egregious cases.