Tampa: Swap Stamkos and Kucherov on/off the LTIR?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Mach2, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. belair Registered User

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    But how can you say that a player is ever 'healthy'? Professional players play through injuries frequently. How many players wait until they're 100% game shape before they get activated? Tampa's plan was always going to be having Kucherov available for the playoffs. Without his LTIR flexibility, the team couldn't have operated during the regular season.

    How many 'healthy' NHL players would qualify for LTIR today if they could be convinced to take the time off? There are dozens of 'long-term' injuries being played through in this league.

    For this very reason the LTIR is a farce. No salary cap and Kucherov is playing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  2. Sky04 Registered User

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    They have cap room for him right now with Stamkos on LTIR, why isn't he playing then? Genius.

    Why isn't Seguin playing for Dallas yet?
     
  3. DistantThunderRep Registered User

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    Sooooooooooo the problem is we could afford to bench one of the best hockey players in the world all season to make sure he is 100% healthy, and still make the playoffs?
     
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  4. Chips Registered User

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    If anything I would shit on teams for pressuring guys to come back early when they’re still injured lol


    Players don’t want to not play by the way, idk why people act like this is all GMs and there are no other people in play, and only look at this through hypothetical scheming GM’s eyes
     
  5. belair Registered User

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    They are.

    Klefbom is kind of a funny example because he literally played some of the heaviest minutes in the NHL the year before. Fast forward a year and he's on LTIR with questions of whether he's going to play again.

    You can't tell me that Edmonton couldn't have thrown him on LTIR at any point of the previous three seasons due to his ongoing shoulder issues.
     
  6. Sky04 Registered User

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    Please don't let Tampa utilizing LTIR offend you because:

    1) Your teams not good enough to do what they're doing
    2)You don't understand LTIR
     
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  7. DistantThunderRep Registered User

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    Here is a shocking thought. Hopefully you're sitting down for this.

    Maybe Klefbom asked and Edmonton said no because they had no other defensemen beside him. OR maybe Klefbom didn't want to do it either? But the fundamental conclusion, is that 3 years of Klefbom being hurt and playing hurt inevitably has him sitting the whole year, maybe playing through an injury is a bad idea. And when you have the opportunity to get surgery and heal to 100% is better for your career long term.
     
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  8. Chips Registered User

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    Also this. Seguin has basically the same issue Kuch did, although seems to have played longer with it, and “destroyed” the muscle ie its more serious and he’s out longer.

    distinct possibility Kucherov playing a crammed season on it, after a longer playoffs genuinely felt it wasn’t worth it.
     
  9. Pavel Buchnevich Registered User

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    Didn't he change jersey colors that indicates he's now participating in regular practice? I could be wrong about that.
     
  10. DistantThunderRep Registered User

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    Exactly, why risk it getting way worse. Especially when the same team has dealt with the same injury when Point had it. 100% Kuch talked to Point about how it was to deal with it, and probably chose for the longevity of his career.
     
  11. DistantThunderRep Registered User

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    Yeah its weird, there was a picture of him wearing a white jersey. But every single report and videos of him practicing show him in a red no contact jersey. Maybe they made him wear the white jersey just for the photo op? For for all intents and purposes, you would assume he's still in red. That picture of him in white was from the Tampa twitter account, so if they were trying to cheat the system, you would think they wouldn't let something so stupid slip?
     
  12. Chips Registered User

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    They addressed that too, something about “don’t read into it, nobody wants to wear (whatever the other color) jerseys; the guys know he’s not touched”


    I mean it’s a team thing isn’t it? I didn’t think the league mandated the color code, or at least I wouldn’t expect they’d take it serious lol

    I guess it’s a team morale thing, he’s only been doing certain drills tho
     
  13. Five Alarm Fire HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    He's been rotating in on the 4th line, and he's been wearing the same jersey color as Maroon/Colton. So it could just be that, I also think it's odd that he's not wearing a no-contact jersey. That would seem to be the safest protocol to me.
     
  14. Mr Positive Cap Crunch Incoming

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    It's not a video game where a return date is set in stone. Just like when Hossa's allergy to equipment meant that playing in the regular season wasn't worth it but the playoffs were, Kucherov is allowed to have the same opinion about the risk of aggrevating an injury by playing games in the regular season, but playing games in the playoffs is worth the risk.

    Players are allowed to coordinate with their team about that issue. If the coach tells Kucherov that getting back early has value, then Kucherov might go along with it, risking injury, for the good of the team and to increase the chance at a cup. And yes, players are even allowed to make that decision based on cap concerns with their team.

    And there's nothing wrong with that.
     
  15. belair Registered User

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    So you're suggesting that Klefbom felt he couldn't have played and Edmonton forced him to because of a lack of depth?

    That's a bit of bigger stretch than a competitive team using LTIR gymnastics dishonestly to maneuver the cap. If that player happened to injure himself permanently in that situation, he'd be in a position where he could probably pursue legal action against the team. So I'd assume that to be rather unlikely.

    My point is that 'healthy' players aren't necessarily healthy. Teams can theoretically (and probably already do) utilize them to abuse the LTIR system to circumvent the cap, which makes LTIR system a total farce.
     
  16. DistantThunderRep Registered User

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    My point is players make decisions on if they are healthy enough to play. And him constantly pushing it off basically has permanently effected his career. He averaged 1/4 of the season missed, and now missing the whole season. In 4 years he has missed 113 games. He's been hurt for 4 years total now. You're suggesting this was the best decision for him? To play for 3 seasons injured, and miss another full season because it was in his best interest? Come on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  17. Ted Hoffman Yes, I really am better than you.

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    Nitpick: the last year Hossa played in the league, he played 73 regular season games before the 4 playoff games in which Chicago got swept by Nashville. He didn't miss those 9 games due to a "skin allergy to his jersey" unless it was somehow so bad, he had to miss 5 in late December - early January and then another 2 in mid-March.
     
  18. Ted Hoffman Yes, I really am better than you.

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    When you get a copy of the CBA out to learn how the salary cap and LTIR work, might I suggest you also look through other articles to understand a team's liability to a player with respect to injuries and a player's responsibility to report injuries to the team in a sincere manner.

    I won't spoil the results for you.
     
  19. belair Registered User

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    No, I'm actually suggesting that a significant number of NHLers play injured constantly. They're highly competitive, which makes them prone to making decisions that would potentially be detrimental to their long-term health.

    In respect to the LTIR, these 'healthy' players would immediately qualify if they could be convinced to not play.
     
  20. belair Registered User

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    I wasn't the one that suggested the scenario.
     
  21. DistantThunderRep Registered User

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    Yes, significant players play hurt. Is it a good idea? No. Does the team force them to play hurt, probably not. The player makes that decision. Just like a player makes the decision to get invasive surgery. But that's not the point. How can I explain this properly.

    Do you agree Kucherov is actually hurt? Currently? Do you have any proof stating that he isn't hurt currently? With Stammer on LTIR, we have enough space to bring Kuch back if he wasn't hurt. But what do you see? A player who had hip surgery who isn't 100% to start. It's ridiculous to assume the person Tampa sits on LTIR is one of the best players in the world, rather than the injury prone Stamkos. Who everyone would easily believe is hurt, again.
     
  22. Nihiliste Registered User

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    Lol yeah ok, it’s “coincidence”. By total coincidence, you lost 50$ of cash and I just happened to find the same amount in my wallet. Nothing to see here, conspiracy theorist
     
  23. PRZ45MD Registered User

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    Careful with the koolaid sipping. Got any pizzerias to raid?
     
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  24. Nihiliste Registered User

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    What is the probability that a player would be ready for game 1 of the playoffs and not any of the games of the regular season or any of the later games of the playoffs? We’ll see when he actually returns but if it’s game one then we’ll know all the overly defensive Tampa stans really did just protest too much
     
  25. IlikeEich Registered User

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    It’s sketchy.
     

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