Tampa: Swap Stamkos and Kucherov on/off the LTIR?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Mach2, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. drktmplr12 Registered User

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    Those aren't my points. Those are points made by those supporting this idea that it's totally innocent. They are points that refute the claim.

    I'm raising the question why wait for surgery if you want to recover and play as soon as possible?

    There is no logical reason for him to wait.

    If he had the surgery 10 weeks earlier he'd perhaps be ready to play today, assuming he'll be in the lineup game 1 of playoffs as they have so transparently indicated.
     
  2. drktmplr12 Registered User

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    So kucherov won't play in the playoffs then, by that estimation? If he elected surgery in middle of October, very likely ready to play mid April. I still don't understand why delay the surgery to a degree where he misses the entire season.
     
  3. DistantThunderRep Registered User

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    According to reports, Kucherov didn't report the discomfort in his hip until December 3rd. He tried cortisone shots to elevate the pain and to see if it would naturally heal. Dec 29th he went in for the surgery.

    So,

    1) Kucherov didn't mention any pain or discomfort until December.
    2) The tried something else first.
    3) Surgery was the last choice.

    The team came out and also said that they would rather have Kuch get healed up and not in pain rather than playing 4-5 months through the season hurt.

    The choice was inevitably Kucherov's. From a team's point of view, Kucherov is an commodity and asset. A $76M investment. Risking his long-term health, and the long-term success of the team is financially dumb for both sides. It's pretty ridiculous to think the team forced Kucherov to take the surgery so we could keep Patrick Maroon, Matthieu Joseph, Tyler Johnson, Alex Killorn, Cal Foote, Luke Schenn, and some draft picks. Kucherov is more important than every single one of those players, combined.
     
  4. AndreRoy Registered User

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    Have you ever played a contact sport? Suffered a serious injury, sporting or otherwise, for which surgery is optional but not necessarily required? Spoken to multiple surgeons about the risks involved?

    As someone who can answer all those questions in the affirmative, let me tell you that the decision to undergo surgery is nowhere near as cut and dried as you seem to think it is. While it varies from procedure to procedure, surgeons often have to cut through a good deal of healthy tissue and muscle to get to the damaged stuff, and it can often be a crapshoot as to whether they end up doing more good than harm. And that’s if the surgery goes well - obviously no matter how routine the procedure there is always the possibility of things going horribly wrong.

    So it is neither uncommon nor suspicious for an athlete to wait and see how well his body can heal on its own before deciding to let someone cut him up. In my case I twice suffered serious injuries that could have been repaired via surgery, and in both cases after consultation with both my specialists and a couple of surgeons in my family I chose to forego the operations and allow my body to heal on its own. I still have some impairment from those injuries but it’s at a level where I felt the possibility of full recovery via surgery wasn’t worth the risks involved.

    So rather than the outlandish conspiracy theory you and others are pushing here, it is infinitely more likely that Kuch was, as publicly stated and as so many others have done, waiting to see if he could recover to an acceptable degree without surgery, and after some time realized that surgery would indeed be necessary.
     
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  5. feffan Registered User

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    Since Kucherov ain´t a Nathan Horton or Steven Stamkos, I would assume a big % of his salary is insured. As most NHL players with little to no injurie history. But if I´m wrong I´d happily take the educational post. It´s not my favourite area to stay completley ajour on, so it could be different now than a few years ago.

    The last part I would assume is a joke that went over my head, as it´s if not a joke is off course completley nonsense.
     
  6. Ted Hoffman Yes, I really am better than you.

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    Brief education on contracts and insurance found here. A list of covered contracts is submitted every year; contracts can be moved on/off as needed, and coverage can be specified by either the team or the insurer for parts of a player's contract because there's a total insured value limit for every team. [What shouldn't be a surprise to anyone: if a player is injured long-term and not covered when the injury occurs, the team can't move him on to insurance down the road - it's a known condition, it defeats the entire purpose of insurance.] As I think I've noted in this thread, it's possible Kucherov's contract was insured depending on when contracts had to be submitted for insurance. If the Lightning knew about the injury at the time the list was submitted, coverage on Kucherov's contract will get rejected since it was a known condition unless it was disclosed to the insurer who still accepted Kucherov's contract - but even then, the insurer would have excluded the injured area as being eligible for coverage. Meaning: Kucherov's contract might be insured, but not for his hip injury.

    EDIT: back in 2012, the NHL required teams to insure ~80% of their top-5 salaries. Not sure if that still applies today. Kucherov pretty clearly falls into the Lightning's top-5. But even with that, the insurer had the ability to apply exclusions for various injury types. Pre-existing conditions would be a big one. Thus, my comments above would still apply; otherwise, the team would be paying the insurer for a known injury that would cause definite missed time, and the insurer would merely calculate the amount of salary to be paid and charge that back to the team plus its expenses.

    At any rate, insurance wouldn't have kicked in from the start of the season. It only kicks in after a player misses some specified amount of time.

    Yes, the last part is a joke.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  7. Mikeshane Registered User

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    Where are they?

    It's May 1st and they have 5 games left in the regular season.
     
  8. Sky04 Registered User

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  9. DownIsTheNewUp Registered User

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    Can’t wait to see how the conspiracy theories continue even after Kucherov isn’t ready by the beginning off the playoffs.

    “They’re just keeping him out to save face!”
     
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  10. T REX Registered User

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    Both guys were first on the ice this morning.

    Carolina is still the best team in the division.

    I just hope getting back Stammer and Kuch we can make it past the Panthers and don't get swept by the Canes.
     
  11. Chips Registered User

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    Who are the Bolts most likely to face based both on current standings and strength of schedule? I still wouldn’t bet against Kuch coming back round one if their competition is stiff, even if he’s not 100%


    Not just for that, but the dude hasn’t played in forever and he presumably has been itching to ge back out there and the thought of not playing at all instead of at least playing 4 games, because he missed the first round and they get eliminated, and then he has to wait months longer... I’m sure he’s willing to come back soon lol

    depends what they meant months ago by “we expect him back by the start of playoffs”. Back on the ice in a game, or back in the vicinity of the team hanging out and practicing ?
     
  12. JoVel Registered User

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    I can't do math but I'd say there's like an 80% chance they play the Panthers.
     
  13. Chips Registered User

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    That’s actually pretty cool. I still think Kuch will play soon after the start lol. Can’t lose in your first legit chance at a florida rivalry
     
  14. alpine4life Registered User

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    should be illegal but there's a loop hole and the lightning used it to have an advantage in the playoffs... with that being said, yes I do believe that both players are injured and there's no fake in it
     
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  15. Voight #winning

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    Just curious if the same people were complaining about LTIR when Sid was activated just after the deadline in 2012. :dunno:

    Seriously dont get the outrage. Every team can do this; I get the Bolts have a target on their back since they are the reigning champs and its one of the top players in the league were talking about here but still. I hope you guys have the same outrage when your teams do it.
     
  16. ShaneinTpa Registered User

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    And Andre lost in all of this is the fact the league didn’t even know for sure a season was going to be played until some time in Dec. So, if rehab without surgery was a viable option, why would a player rush to have it done without the knowledge of when the season was going to begin if it began at all?
     
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