Definitely could have used a goal or two at the end but with Tanev, you may not have needed them
TSN: Tampa bay has Contacted Vancouver about Tanev
- Thread starter DownGoesMcDavid
- Start date
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
My thought has been that Benning just needs a legit 2nd line center right now, to play with Pettersson and to not not rush him or Gaudette into the role. If to acquire such a center it requires creating just as big a hole on the blue line, it will still look better for management if the swap makes Pettersson look better.
DistantThunderRep
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- Mar 8, 2018
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Benning.....if you come home with a handful of magic beans on this I will walk down to your office and FIRE YOU MYSELF
DO NOT "Kessler" this thing up!
Remember, YOU never wanted to trade him THEY called YOU
Vancouver: Tanev, (and Stevey Y's choice of Gudbranson, Baechi, Hutton, Gagner or Del Zotto
Tampa: 1st rounder 2018, 1st rounder 2019 (Or Cal Foote)
NO PICKS OR GOOD PROSPECTS GOING OUT! ONLY GOOD PICKS OR PROSPECTS COMING IN!
If Tampa, who is gearing up for a cup run has no need or desire for the Vets I've mentioned (Or any I've forgotten...NO VIRTANEN, NO HORVAT, NOT EVEN JOULEVI'S X-BOX) If offensive depth from Gagner and Baerchi, Defensive depth from Gudbransson and Del Zotto are useless to the lightning (and I'll trust Tampa fans to answer that question)....
....Then there is NO DEAL TO BE MADE.....everyone just MOVE ALONG
Oh, and don't try to front like like Tampa's first round picks are gold THEY AREN'T, your 1st rounders are barely even first rounders so don't act like we are asking for the world here, chances are they don't even turn into useable players
DO NOT "Kessler" this thing up!
Remember, YOU never wanted to trade him THEY called YOU
Vancouver: Tanev, (and Stevey Y's choice of Gudbranson, Baechi, Hutton, Gagner or Del Zotto
Tampa: 1st rounder 2018, 1st rounder 2019 (Or Cal Foote)
NO PICKS OR GOOD PROSPECTS GOING OUT! ONLY GOOD PICKS OR PROSPECTS COMING IN!
If Tampa, who is gearing up for a cup run has no need or desire for the Vets I've mentioned (Or any I've forgotten...NO VIRTANEN, NO HORVAT, NOT EVEN JOULEVI'S X-BOX) If offensive depth from Gagner and Baerchi, Defensive depth from Gudbransson and Del Zotto are useless to the lightning (and I'll trust Tampa fans to answer that question)....
....Then there is NO DEAL TO BE MADE.....everyone just MOVE ALONG
Oh, and don't try to front like like Tampa's first round picks are gold THEY AREN'T, your 1st rounders are barely even first rounders so don't act like we are asking for the world here, chances are they don't even turn into useable players
You don't have a CLUE what Tanev would do for your team
But if this trade gets pulled off you will be VERY HAPPY TO LEARN
I just find it hilarious that with all the personal attacks coming from Canucks fans not a single one of you has the intellectual capacity to argue against my position. Not one of you has even attempted to argue why Tampa would be well-served to give up valuable assets and spend valuable cap space on a player who has never played more than 70 games in a season. So keep the personal attacks coming, because all you’re doing is proving me right.
He would increase your chances of winning in every one of those 70 games.
A player like Tanev plays defense at such an elite level that it allows others (those capable) of increasing their offensive production because they no longer have to be concerned about taking a risk offensively. Pair him with Hedman or McDonagh and I guarantee an increase in their point totals.
His cap hit is 4.2 million, I'm sure you can make the room to accommodate Tanev without too much effort.
There is a difference between a player with a concussion history or a history of knee injuries compared to someone that has, for the most part, simply been unlucky. The possibility of him playing more games in an easier travel schedule and a different role would increase the likelihood of him minimizing those injuries.
I'm not here to argue, just wanted to give you an idea of where some canucks fans are coming from. Yzerman, whilst he hasn't impressed you has done a fairly decent job in assembling the best team in hockey (regular season), if the thinks Tanev is worth trading for, then 99% of people on the board here shouldn't care what you or anyone else has to say.
The only trade I would accept from TB is Foote for Tanev 1 for 1. You don't have to like it or agree with it but we aren't hard pressed to trade him. With your comment about Yzerman turning down the Karlsson deal because Foote was included? Do you honestly believe that? There isn't a defenseman in the league that has the value Karlsson does 1 for 1 and you think an unproven prospect on a decent trajectory does? Please explain.
What does his height have to do with anything? You wouldn't want Gaudreau because he's short too? Seems like there's fans who want a 2C to help Pettersson transition to the NHL. Put him with Johnson a couple of years and then move Johnson to 3C where he still would be effective and not that overpaid for the position.
Hockey Rush
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2018
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The Vancouver Canucks have 22 Million in free cap space as of right now. We will be gaining 4-5 more million so in the 26-27 Million range. We have a handful of RFA's who will run us at tops 6-7 mill. so that is 20 million rough left. Vancouver's main ELC contracts expire 2-3 years time. The Canucks could easily absorb the contracts of Ryan Callahan (5.8M) and Braydon Coburn (3.7M).
Tyler Johnson (5M)
Ryan Callahan (5.8M)
Bradon Coburn (3.7M)
would subtract 14.5
Add Chris Tanev (4.45M)
would get you 10.05M in savings. Plus you have 7M in cap space and the salary is rising by 4-5M. That would push you around 20M below the cap well adding a superior defenceman. Giving you plenty of cash to re-sign existing players coming off ELC and re-up Kucherov. I personally would eat Coburn's deal as a nice gesture if you paid Tampa gave us a tad extra. Vancouver has 20 M in cap space after signing RFA's in all likelihood. Add in Johnson still, have 15 million. Coburn's cash would come off the books when Boeser/Demko new deals kick in. Then Callahan's is off the book when Dahlen, Lind, Jasek etc are off. Plus there is a fair chance the Canucks move Anders Nilsson and possibly Ben Hutton's 2.8M.
What would be comfortable for Tampa fans if we take care of all your cash worries and give you arguably the best D in the NHL. Tanev is the best shot-suppression D man in the NHL. Tyler Johnson would need to be included. We also have other parts available like Baertschi if you need an add.
Tyler Johnson (5M)
Ryan Callahan (5.8M)
Bradon Coburn (3.7M)
would subtract 14.5
Add Chris Tanev (4.45M)
would get you 10.05M in savings. Plus you have 7M in cap space and the salary is rising by 4-5M. That would push you around 20M below the cap well adding a superior defenceman. Giving you plenty of cash to re-sign existing players coming off ELC and re-up Kucherov. I personally would eat Coburn's deal as a nice gesture if you paid Tampa gave us a tad extra. Vancouver has 20 M in cap space after signing RFA's in all likelihood. Add in Johnson still, have 15 million. Coburn's cash would come off the books when Boeser/Demko new deals kick in. Then Callahan's is off the book when Dahlen, Lind, Jasek etc are off. Plus there is a fair chance the Canucks move Anders Nilsson and possibly Ben Hutton's 2.8M.
What would be comfortable for Tampa fans if we take care of all your cash worries and give you arguably the best D in the NHL. Tanev is the best shot-suppression D man in the NHL. Tyler Johnson would need to be included. We also have other parts available like Baertschi if you need an add.
I do, and here’s why. Yzerman has always stated (and I agree with this philosophy 100%) that he doesn’t believe in sacrificing the future for rentals, that your best chance of winning a Stanley Cup is not to go “all-in” in any particular year (as luck and injuries can play a huge role in the outcome of any individual season) but rather to put a competitive team on the ice year after year, and that therefore any deal he makes has to make us a better team both now and in the future. He went against that philosophy with the McDonagh trade and I thought and still do think that it was a huge mistake, but other than that he’s been pretty consistent in following that philosophy.
And it’s a sound philosophy. To illustrate why, let’s look at the game of poker. Say you’re playing no-limit hold ‘em against a player who is clearly superior to you. Your best chance against that player is to go all-in on every hand in the hopes that you might get lucky, while his optimal strategy against you is to do the opposite: extend the game, minimize the impact of short term chance, and allow his superior skill to win out in the long run. Chance can cause results to vary widely in the short term but the larger the sample size the more closely the results will match the mathematically expected outcome. Likewise in hockey if you have a top contender your best chance of winning a Cup is to maintain that status for as long as possible - if you go “all-in” on a season or two then injuries and other unfortunate occurrences can bring you down but over time the best team should win more often than not.
With Stralman’s and McDonagh’s contracts ending after next season and both players already looking to be in at least some degree of decline we’re going to need two top four defensemen to replace them going forward; Foote has top pairing upside and a probable floor of a good middle pairing guy, and is the only prospect in our organization with such potential following the trade of Hajek. And unlike Hajek Foote plays the right side which is the area of greater need for us. So while Foote for Karlsson would (if you ignore the cap implications) have clearly made us a better team for what at the time was the two remaining years of EK’s deal, hanging on to Foote was the better long term play. And as I pointed out, playing the long game is the optimal strategy if you can be one of the top contenders over that long term.
So why did Yzerman make the McDonagh trade? Likely because our organizational depth at C and LD made Howden and Hajek expendable, while the same couldn’t be said of Foote at RD. My main issues with the trade are that McDonagh is clearly not the player he once was, he plays the wrong side for our needs, and we could have either gotten the same contribution at a much cheaper cost (and on the side we needed it) or at the price we paid we could and should have acquired a long term solution rather than a two-year bandaid. Yzerman went against his own philosophy and we have a much weakened prospect pool because of it. But the point is he was willing to trade Howden and Hajek because the depth ahead of them meant that they weren’t as important to our long term plans, while we have no such depth to compensate for the loss of Foote. And Yzerman valued the potential decade or so of Foote’s future services over two seasons of Karlsson’s.
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God King Fudge
Championship Swag
- Oct 13, 2017
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No, I actually do. Like I said, I'd be happy to have him on my team for the 40-60 games he plays every season. It's the 40-20 that he doesn't play that concerns me.
I did see discussion of the return being dependent upon GP, which I'd be happy with.
You can be as salty as you like, but there's absolutely no dancing around Tanev's issue with being on the ice. Fluke injuries are still injuries. Ask Stamkos.
THE Green Man
Registered User
It’s been agreed to in other threads for a Hutton for Brock Nelson swap. That would be good value and once Gaudette, Dahlen or Pettersson are ready to play centre Nelson shifts to LW to utilize his shot more
Tampa doesn't have either of those picks to trade, and it's pretty clear we're not moving Foote. Wouldn't include him in a Karlsson or McDonagh deal, so it's unlikely we do it here.
CupsOverCash
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- Jun 16, 2009
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As a Canucks fan, I wouldn't be really hung up on Foote in a Tanev trade (but that is likely because I don't rate Foote super highly).
Not having your first this year kinda makes a deal harder. You have a ton of forward prospects though.
Would something like Stephens + Volkov + 2018 2nd be in the ballpark for you guys? There's no real elite/high value piece coming back to Vancouver, so I might even be hesitant to do it myself. We can obviously take on a cap dump to make the specifics work.
Not for me - just too much to give up for a guy with Tanev’s injury issues. We’ll need good ELC players like Stephens and Volkov to provide cheap depth and outperform their contracts in the coming years when we’ll be up against the cap. And the only cap dump we have whose term matches Tanev’s is Callahan who probably can’t be traded to Vancouver, so while we could afford Tanev next season if we trade Miller we definitely can’t afford him the following season when Kucherov, Point, and Gourde get their new deals. So between the injury history and our cap situation it just doesn’t make sense for us.
Nucker42
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- Nov 27, 2011
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There’s one issue with the Tanev injury logic, he has been consistently overworked over the last 3 years.
A number 2 d man playing number 1 d man minutes against every other teams best players and top shooters.
Other than Edler who had a bounce back year last year, the Canucks defense is atrocious and Tanev has had virtually no help.
So, let’s day Tanev goes to Tampa. He’s playing behind Hedman, Sergachev and just has to fill a second paring role. He’s bound not be beat up and broken down like he has been on the Canucks.
I think a guy like Tanev could really push Tampa over the top.
That’s my two cents.
A number 2 d man playing number 1 d man minutes against every other teams best players and top shooters.
Other than Edler who had a bounce back year last year, the Canucks defense is atrocious and Tanev has had virtually no help.
So, let’s day Tanev goes to Tampa. He’s playing behind Hedman, Sergachev and just has to fill a second paring role. He’s bound not be beat up and broken down like he has been on the Canucks.
I think a guy like Tanev could really push Tampa over the top.
That’s my two cents.
Nucker42
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- Nov 27, 2011
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Already on my soap box, I’m just going to keep it going here.
TAMPA is a great trade partner because guys like Keokkeok and Dotchkin need opportunities and aren’t really getting them in Tampa.
My proposal is this.
Keokkeok and a 2019 1st round pick.
Gives the Canucks two 1st rounders in a draft in which they host.
TAMPA is a great trade partner because guys like Keokkeok and Dotchkin need opportunities and aren’t really getting them in Tampa.
My proposal is this.
Keokkeok and a 2019 1st round pick.
Gives the Canucks two 1st rounders in a draft in which they host.
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
The 2019 first round pick belongs to the New York rangers if the lightning win the cup next season. So you would have to go to 2020.
We couldn’t trade our 2019 first even if we wanted to and I still like Koekkoek’s potential. In addition there’s still the very real issues of Tanev’s lack of durability and the fact that we can’t afford to take on his cap hit.
Callahan won’t accept a trade to Vancouver, but if you could somehow convince him about the best deal I’d agree to would be Dotchin + Callahan + maybe a mid-round pick. Cally cancels out the cap impact and Dotchin isn’t likely to play for us anyway so we don’t lose anything if Tanev spends half the season on the IR. You can almost certainly get a better deal from another team with a greater need for a top pairing defenseman and the ability to add his contract without sending a cap dump back the other way, but from my perspective as a Lightning fan that’s the most I’d feel comfortable with.
- Feb 24, 2017
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I have “enjoyed” it all over the years. I agree that I’d rather be a team with a window who just blew a year. It’s still a window. Look at Washington.
Sergei Shirokov
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God King Fudge
Championship Swag
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me2
Go ahead foot
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