Sportsnet: Talking Calder last night.

[Raymoondo]

I've noticed this recently too and I don't get it. Laine has more points per game but I would argue Matthews is a better defensive player, a center and leading his team to the playoffs. I can't be bothered looking it up but I'm guessing Matthews has more even strength points and Laine more PP. Not to mention his line mates!!! I really think it should be Matthews by a good margin.

I do love Laine though..

The post you quoted is from November lol

 

[TheTotalPackage]

The first three months I thought Matthews had it locked. Then last month I thought it had swayed to Laine. It's back to Matthews now and I don't see how he doesn't win it.

However, if the voters gave it to Werenski, I'd have no problems with it. The type of season he is having is remarkable for a 19-year old rookie D.

 

[Pi]

6 game point streak for Matthews.

Let's put it this way, if the Leafs have anyone else from the 2016 draft besides Matthews, we aren't in a playoff spot today. Not even close and our future doesn't look as bright as it does with Matthews.

Matthews helped us take the patient approach with Nylander. We don't have to force Marner to try and become a centre, he can just drive his line from the wing. He helps everyone else play in the roles they are capable of playing. No one is over their heads.

 

[Liminality]

The first three months I thought Matthews had it locked. Then last month I thought it had swayed to Laine. It's back to Matthews now and I don't see how he doesn't win it.

However, if the voters gave it to Werenski, I'd have no problems with it. The type of season he is having is remarkable for a 19-year old rookie D.

Definitely, it'll be interesting to see where the voters stand when comparing defense and forwards.

When Myers won the Calder in 2009-2010, he won the votes pretty easily.

Myers at 19 got 1178 votes 11g, 37a, 48p, +13.
Howard at 25 got 778 votes 37w, 15l, 10 otl, 2.26gaa, .924 sv%
Duchene at 19 got 755 votes 24g, 31a, 55p, +1

Rask and Tavares both got votes in the 300's

When Ekblad won it in 2014-2015, it was much more split.

Eklbad at 18 got 1147 votes 12g, 27a, 39p, +12
Stone at 22 got 1078 votes 26g, 38a, 64p, +21
Gaudreau at 21 got 1026 votes 24g, 40a, 64p, +11

Phaneuf was nowhere near beating Crosby or Ovechkin in 2005-2006 with 49 points but rightfully so when Crosby and Ovechkin both break 100 points.

Think it's going to be close like the Ekblad, Stone, Gaudreau votes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

6 game point streak for Matthews.

Let's put it this way, if the Leafs have anyone else from the 2016 draft besides Matthews, we aren't in a playoff spot today. Not even close and our future doesn't look as bright as it does with Matthews.

Matthews helped us take the patient approach with Nylander. We don't have to force Marner to try and become a centre, he can just drive his line from the wing. He helps everyone else play in the roles they are capable of playing. No one is over their heads.

Let's put it this way - where would Columbus be today without Werenski?

The lack of respect Werenski is getting here is shocking. All I see here is Matthews>Laine as if they were the oly rookies around and then occasionally someone mentions Marner/Nylander. Everyone's making fun of the Finns who are over the top with their love of Laine but completely ignoring Werenski doesn't say much for the objectivity of Leaf fans.

Would only add that to say the Leafs wouldn't be close to the playoffs had we drafted anyone but Matthews is massive hyperbole. It's also a huge insult to Werenski, Laine and a few other players. JMHO.

 

[X66]

Let's put it this way - where would Columbus be today without Werenski?

The lack of respect Werenski is getting here is shocking. All I see here is Matthews>Laine as if they were the oly rookies around and then occasionally someone mentions Marner/Nylander. Everyone's making fun of the Finns who are over the top with their love of Laine but completely ignoring Werenski doesn't say much for the objectivity of Leaf fans.

Would only add that to say the Leafs wouldn't be close to the playoffs had we drafted anyone but Matthews is massive hyperbole. It's also a huge insult to Werenski, Laine and a few other players. JMHO.

First of all, Werenski wasn't from Matthews' draft, so what are you going on about?

His point is that no player from the 2016 draft could put the Leafs in this position today, and he's right.

A franchise center can do that.

No one is denying Werenski is a good player, most Leaf fans have him in the top 5 for Calder.

 

[Mess]

Let's put it this way - where would Columbus be today without Werenski?

The lack of respect Werenski is getting here is shocking. All I see here is Matthews>Laine as if they were the oly rookies around and then occasionally someone mentions Marner/Nylander. Everyone's making fun of the Finns who are over the top with their love of Laine but completely ignoring Werenski doesn't say much for the objectivity of Leaf fans.

Would only add that to say the Leafs wouldn't be close to the playoffs had we drafted anyone but Matthews is massive hyperbole. It's also a huge insult to Werenski, Laine and a few other players. JMHO.

Werenski is in the Calder race but he wasn't from the Matthews/Laine draft he was from the Marner draft year.

Leafs considered trading back from #4 to #8 to potentially to take Werenski, but even if Leafs did that with Matthews this isn't a playoff team.

 

[Mess]

The 3 finalists for the Calder are Matthews, Laine and one of Murray/Werenski.

Marner and Nylander in this rookie class will receive very few votes, but in other years their performance would have them as strong candidates or even favourites.

 

[WilliamNylander]

The 3 finalists for the Calder are Matthews, Laine and one of Murray/Werenski.

Marner and Nylander in this rookie class will receive very few votes, but in other years their performance would have them as strong candidates or even favourites.

I think if Nylander played on any other team (not Winnipeg or Toronto) he would be the third finalist.

He hasn't gone 3 games in a row without a point all year, and is on a 12 game point streak now. Leads all rookies in points for the second half of the year and the gap is pretty big too. This kind of consistency is unheard of for a rookie.

 

[nuck]

Correct. There's nothing wrong with a Patrik Laine, every team in the league would love to have a sharpshooter like him. He will be one of the league's elite goal scorers for years to come, but his skillset simply is not as complete as Auston's, nor is his season as impressive.

RNH scored as many points as Landeskog in 20 less games in their rookie seasons and didn't win the Calder. Voters don't historically reward players for missing time.

Not a great comparison because Landy had well over 200 hits and was a physical force on top of his scoring. Remember future captain pk etc. RNH at that time was a one trick pony who many said was going to need to beef up just to survive. Laine and Matthews are a lot more similar so the stats, especially for the voters who haven't seen either play a ton, may carry more weight.

 

[thewave]

Werenski deserves it hands down. No contest.

 

[stickty111]

Matthews should get it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

First of all, Werenski wasn't from Matthews' draft, so what are you going on about?

His point is that no player from the 2016 draft could put the Leafs in this position today, and he's right.

A franchise center can do that.

No one is denying Werenski is a good player, most Leaf fans have him in the top 5 for Calder.

Oopsie on Werenski, my bad.

What he said was that with anyone instead of Matthews from that draft we wouldn't even be close to the playoffs. I strongly disagree - Laine is almost at a PPG this season now and while I'm happy we have Matthews, there isn't some huge gap between the two this season.. I also stand by my original statement - Werenski isn't getting the credit he deserves ITT. Not a popular POV around these part but there it is. JMHO.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Oopsie on Werenski, my bad.

What he said was that with anyone instead of Matthews from that draft we wouldn't even be close to the playoffs. I strongly disagree - Laine is almost at a PPG this season now and while I'm happy we have Matthews, there isn't some huge gap between the two this season.. I also stand by my original statement - Werenski isn't getting the credit he deserves ITT. Not a popular POV around these part but there it is. JMHO.

I definitely don't think we're in the playoffs without Matthews. We would be weak again at C. Kadri/Bozak, even with Laine, wouldn't get us in the playoffs. We'd be bottom 10 again.

 

[doorman]

I think this is a two horse race, it will be one of Matthews or Murray and the later may very well win it. I have no problems if he does, they're both deserving candidates.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I definitely don't think we're in the playoffs without Matthews. We would be weak again at C. Kadri/Bozak, even with Laine, wouldn't get us in the playoffs. We'd be bottom 10 again.

I strongly disagree. Laine is an amazing player and you're not giving him enough credit. No way to prove it one way or the other of course so we may as well just leave it at that and agree to disagree.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Werenski deserves it hands down. No contest.

If Werenski was a Leaf and Matthews was in WPG or AZ or wherever else, you can bet that's what the majority of people here would be saying.

 

[thewave]

If Werenski was a Leaf and Matthews was in WPG or AZ or wherever else, you can bet that's what the majority of people here would be saying.

I will be upset if he doesn't get it. The guys going to pull a 50pt top pairing D +20 or more performance at age 19. I mean come on, let's all just swallow our pride and give him the trophy and be sportsmanlike congratulate the guy on doing something extremely special. Good Job, you win the prize.

 

[Nithoniniel]

At this point, I think Werenski has the best case, but I'm almost completely sure Matthews will win it. Narrative wins the awards, and if you read what's being said in voting media it's still all about the big two. The late-season movement has been people, even some very pro-Laine people like Pronman, going back to Matthews.

Comparisons between positions are always hard. The easiest way to go about it is to compare them to their positions. As such, Werenski is performing at a higher level than Matthews.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I will be upset if he doesn't get it. The guys going to pull a 50pt top pairing D +20 or more performance at age 19. I mean come on, let's all just swallow our pride and give him the trophy and be sportsmanlike congratulate the guy on doing something extremely special. Good Job, you win the prize.

Hey I hear you, if I had to give out the award today I think I'd give it to him too. It's hard to compare Dmen to forwards though, Laine and Matthews are pretty special and there's a case to be made for them too. I won't be upset no matter who wins, it's an individual award so ... it's a team game and I just want our team to be a contender. I'm thrilled with Matthews no matter who gets the trophy.

 

[thewave]

Hey I hear you, if I had to give out the award today I think I'd give it to him too. It's hard to compare Dmen to forwards though, Laine and Matthews are pretty special and there's a case to be made for them too. I won't be upset no matter who wins, it's an individual award so ... it's a team game and I just want our team to be a contender. I'm thrilled with Matthews no matter who gets the trophy.

Exactly, the hardware we are after is a little older, heavier and far more special.

 

[Gary Nylund]

At this point, I think Werenski has the best case, but I'm almost completely sure Matthews will win it. Narrative wins the awards, and if you read what's being said in voting media it's still all about the big two. The late-season movement has been people, even some very pro-Laine people like Pronman, going back to Matthews.

Comparisons between positions are always hard. The easiest way to go about it is to compare them to their positions. As such, Werenski is performing at a higher level than Matthews.

So as I'm typing, you've posted this.

We're on the same page obviously, I'm just not as sure as you are that Matthews wins. I haven't followed the Calder closely so I'm not in a position to handicap the chances here but I just remember Wendel Clark who had an amazing rookie season, I think he should have won but he came second in the voting to a DMan so I'm not sure Werenski's such a longshot. I do think you're right, it's narrative driven and I think Matthews will win, I'm just not as sure of it as you are.

 

[ULF_55]

I definitely don't think we're in the playoffs without Matthews. We would be weak again at C. Kadri/Bozak, even with Laine, wouldn't get us in the playoffs. We'd be bottom 10 again.

What are you talking about?

van Riemsdyk-Bozak-Kessel lead the team to multiple playoff appearances.

Switch Kessel - Laine and same result, with perhaps a couple more goals

 

[WilliamNylander]

Sad to see how leafs fans have become this year. We finally get a player worthy of the hype and people jump at the chance to belittle his accomplishments.

Toronto has 3 D men that average more ice time than Werenski. Matthews is the second best generator of scoring chances in the NHL after McDavid.

It's okay to embrace what we have. Don't be scared.

 

[thewave]

Sad to see how leafs fans have become this year. We finally get a player worthy of the hype and people jump at the chance to belittle his accomplishments.

Toronto has 3 D men that average more ice time than Werenski. Matthews is the second best generator of scoring chances in the NHL after McDavid.

It's okay to embrace what we have. Don't be scared.

He averages 21m a game to our 3 guys with 21 and change or slightly over 22m? He plays stiff comp too! Matthews is not playing Kadri role of shutting down other teams top lines either. The guys the best out there right now, D is not easy to dominate and nearly impossible to do like he is at 19. He wins or should win in a fair and just world. Matthews and Laine have been great as well but at this point I need to see 75-85pts from either. Maybe the 40 goal mark would help the votes but Werenski deserves the hardware.