Transfer: Summer Transfers part 4

[Il Mediano]

I think Locatelli wanted the move before new ownership came in, and the arrival of Bakayoko sealed the deal.

Strange if there's no counter option on it, though. There must be a fairly high future sale % , if not.

 

[Islesfan22]

I think Locatelli wanted the move before new ownership came in, and the arrival of Bakayoko sealed the deal.

Strange if there's no counter option on it, though. There must be a fairly high future sale % , if not.

How do you think Roma will do this season? I think top 4 in Italy will be very competitive this season. Juve of course still favorites and i do feel Napoli could fall out of the top 4 this season.

 

[Il Mediano]

How do you think Roma will do this season? I think top 4 in Italy will be very competitive this season. Juve of course still favorites and i do feel Napoli could fall out of the top 4 this season.

I think top 3 should be achievable , but we've brought in 11 new players to the squad and (it looks like) soon to be 12 with N'Zonzi .... and I wouldn't be surprised if we add a RW this week , either. Suffice it to say, it will likely take a little time for everything to gel.

I do think moving Nainggolan was the right move , however, and adding Pastore, N'Zonzi and Cristante to the midfield should more than replace him.

Obviously, losing Alisson is huge, though. He's simply irreplaceable and our new keepers haven't exactly inspired confidence throughout the fanbase so far. Our defence will need to be much better to make up for the loss of Alisson , and so far , we haven't had any major additions in that regard. N'Zonzi would certainly help , as would a healthy Karsdorp at RB. Ivan Marcano was added from Portugal, and seems to be relatively well thought of- but I don't think he's a starter.

I mentioned this in another thread , but to me, Roma's basement is top-4 (based on the veteran starters) and the ceiling is whatever the kids make it. We're banking on a lot of them , and frankly, quite a few of them are more talented than our starters.

I agree with you on Napoli. I'm not convinced by Carlo at all (nor their roster) , and Milan seems to be gaining momentum by the day. Can't count out Lazio, either. They consistently punch above their weight, and I wouldn't expect anything less this season.

 

[Islesfan22]

I think top 3 should be achievable , but we've brought in 11 new players to the squad and (it looks like) soon to be 12 with N'Zonzi .... and I wouldn't be surprised if we add a RW this week , either. Suffice it to say, it will likely take a little time for everything to gel.

I do think moving Nainggolan was the right move , however, and adding Pastore, N'Zonzi and Cristante to the midfield should more than replace him.

Obviously, losing Alisson is huge, though. He's simply irreplaceable and our new keepers haven't exactly inspired confidence throughout the fanbase so far. Our defence will need to be much better to make up for the loss of Alisson , and so far , we haven't had any major additions in that regard. N'Zonzi would certainly help , as would a healthy Karsdorp at RB. Ivan Marcano was added from Portugal, and seems to be relatively well thought of- but I don't think he's a starter.

I mentioned this in another thread , but to me, Roma's basement is top-4 (based on the veteran starters) and the ceiling is whatever the kids make it. We're banking on a lot of them , and frankly, quite a few of them are more talented than our starters.

I agree with you on Napoli. I'm not convinced by Carlo at all (nor their roster) , and Milan seems to be gaining momentum by the day. Can't count out Lazio, either. They consistently punch above their weight, and I wouldn't expect anything less this season.

N'zonzi would be a good buy although not convinced with Pastore. Something missing in the head with that Pastore. What about Kluivert? Any chance he gets into the starting 11? Lazio should have been top 4 last season. Choked against Inter but yes i agree they should be right there competing for the top 4. Is De Rossi still expected to be a key player? First time in a while I'm really interested in Serie A this season.

 

[Il Mediano]

N'zonzi would be a good buy although not convinced with Pastore. Something missing in the head with that Pastore. What about Kluivert? Any chance he gets into the starting 11? Lazio should have been top 4 last season. Choked against Inter but yes i agree they should be right there competing for the top 4. Is De Rossi still expected to be a key player? First time in a while I'm really interested in Serie A this season.

Yeah, I'm not 100% convinced by Pastore , either. He's obviously supremely talented , but he's not exactly renowned for his work-rate or defensive abilities and EDF plans on playing him as a mezz'ala (similar to an 8) in a 4-3-3 , so we'll see how it works. One of Roma's massive issues last season was breaking down minnows parking the bus, so we've focused heavily on adding more creativity this summer.

Kluivert is the signing that got me the most excited this summer. Man, was I pumped, and he hasn't disappointed so far in preseason. Similar to Under last year, it may take him a few months, but it won't be long until he's a starter. Some respected opinions in our fanbase feel he should be the starter game 1 already. Kid looks like the real deal , and dare I say it, but he reminds me a little of Hazard.

De Rossi was penciled in as the starter as of this morning, but after the N'Zonzi news, his role will probably be massively reduced. He likely would've played less last season, but Gonalons (his backup) has been a huge flop. At 35 years old , there's no shame in it. I just hope we can give him a trophy before it's time to say goodbye.

And yeah, you should tune in to Serie A. It's been progressively getting better for around 5-6 years , and now that the Milan giants have finally awakened , it should only add to the quality. Ronaldo doesn't hurt either.

 

[StevenF1919]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they would've preferred selling Bacca clean and finding a winger on a loan with an option (not obligation) , but I highly doubt Bacca had much of a market, and Milan desperately needed outside attackers.

This move, at least for now, has to be considered a win for Milan. Crazy what Leonardo has done in such a short amount of time with an extremely limited/restricted budget.

They needed pace at LW and he should do the trick. He's not an elite player but he definitely fills a need.

 

[les Habs]

• Cillessen could still be sold. I hope for his sake he gets an offer and the club works with him to take it. He's been a complete professional and an excellent deputy to ter Stegen, but it's best for him he gets a shot elsewhere. Ter Stegen has publicly said he wants to start every match and Valverde didn't select Cillessen for the Supercopa so I think the writing is on the wall. It's nice having him in the team, but this is one of those times where I feel for the player.
• Marlon apparently close to Schalke. Some Serie A sides apparently interested as well, but Schalke sounds like the hot rumor at the moment. Fee would be about 15 million which I think is a fair punt for him. I'm actually surprised he hasn't been linked with more Primera sides.
• Jose Arnaiz has been transferred to Leganes. Definitely time for him to move on as he wasn't going to get his chance with the first team. He did pretty well for the B team last season and even got a call up. 5 +.5 is the fee, but Barça have a future option on him.
• Mikel Oyarzabal has apparently rejected Athletic Club and agreed a new deal with La Real. Hopefully he's appreciated by the supporters.
• Sergi Palencia linked with Bordeaux despite some prior La Liga links. I thought he'd end up at Nastic, but we'll see. Wish him well considering how much a Cule he is, but just doesn't look like he'd ever cut it with the first team.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Samu Castillejo to Milan for Bacca + cash. Another Leonardo masterclass dumping Bacca's high wages and getting back a very useful player that will push Calhanoglu back to the midfield.

Castillejo is great. Good move.

 

[Il Mediano]

 

[Il Mediano]

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Samu is quite a coup for Milan. Not sure why Villareal gave him up.

 

[Corto]

You don't have to get a WC player on every position.
That's not how it works. You need to get your good players to perform as well.

It's beyond easy to pin it on the players while Mou has done it with his last 3 teams.
Meanwhile Mata was among the best EPL players for stretches without Mou, Martial was key in Monaco's run in the CL, Pogba had dominant stretches for Juve, Herrera was one of the most consistent young midfielders, etc....

United's team is loaded up front and in certain areas of midfield. They're weak at the back but have one of the best goalies around.

Mou is making that team play like a boring defensive team even though he has the means to play offensive football. Just like with Real.

Martial is inconsistent and has never been consistently good at Utd. Not under LVG, not under Mou.
Potential is obviously there, but 4 years on there has to be a reason why he's mostly used as a sub.
Mata has been pedestrain for a while now, and if I'm honest, he's not the type of player to build a team around, he's supporting cast - which isn't bad if the core and the rest of the supporting cast is up to par.
Herrera was never world class to begin with. It's not like he was a fixture in Fergie's United - he's a good player, was a good player at Bilbao, and is a good player at United. Being "good" is enough for Bilbao and for United in certain situations, but not for this team IMO.

As a consquence, Pogba is being asked to do too much and has been getting (mostly) unfair criticism.
Put Modric, peak Iniesta, KDB or another top midfielder in Pogba's shoes, they still couldn't push that team to next level.

...

Now as far as Mourinho goes. This is the 2nd time you mentioned that his Real stint was somehow a failure.

Just to recap Mou at Madrid, because apparently people forgot.

Prior to Mou coming there, Real was in shambles. Not winning ANY trophies in 4 years, not getting past CL 2nd round in 6 (SIX!) years.

And yes, Mou's 3rd season was marred by turmoil, but the 3-year stint resulted in this:
- Copa del Rey in his first season (first Madrid trophy of any sort in 4 years)
- La Liga title in 2011-12 - including (for a boring team) - most goals scored ever (121), highest GD (+89), most games won, most away wins, etc.
- 3 straight CL semi-finals (after not getting past 2nd round for 6 years)

Mou didn't necessarily make Madrid into a CL juggernaut that they are today, but he made them matter again, he made them relevant again.
And as far as "boring" football goes, it was not like the United of today - which, I complete agree, is mostly boring.
Mou's Madrid though, was a counter-attacking machine. It was anything but boring IMO. It was just different to what people were used at the time with peak Barca dominating.

 

[Evilo]

I knew you were going to come in.

I respectfully disagree. Bakayoko indeed showed lots of promise. 21 years old, box to box, physical, great dribbler. Everything you would want from a top midfielder except he is not able to control the midfield and dictacte the play with his passing like a Tolisso or with his physical abilities like a Pogba.

I always felt he was just a physical specimen that happen to be good at football. I just don't see the smart. I know we always come to the same conclusion. You love Bakayoko and I find him very average.

I will exclude Liverpool out of the equation because he never played and most likely will never play for them. But from what I've seen from his stint at Chelsea did not help my view of him. Same inconsistency, not able to dictate the game and that is with him playing with the best defensive midfielder in the game (Kante). I guess he will have another chance to prove myself wrong in italia soon. It will be interesting to see how his game evolves there.

You want him to be someone he isn't.
He breaks lines, he's a B2B. He's not a midfield "controller". He breaks down attacks, and quickly turns a play into an offensive situation. Monaco benefitted from that because Fabinho had the same kind of profile and their turned defensive situations into offensive one in the blink of an eye, which allowed Lemar, Silva, Falcao and Mbappe to roast everyone in counters.

 

[Evilo]

Ugh... Mario..

Sure, he may get you 20 goals- but at what cost? Sometimes the talent just isn't worth the trouble.

I know he's been on a redemption tour in France , but I still wouldn't feel comfortable giving him a big contract if I were OM. Not at all.

The salary is indeed the problem. OM can't afford crazy salaries, and Balo is asking for one.

 

[Evilo]

Martial is inconsistent and has never been consistently good at Utd. Not under LVG, not under Mou.
Potential is obviously there, but 4 years on there has to be a reason why he's mostly used as a sub.
Mata has been pedestrain for a while now, and if I'm honest, he's not the type of player to build a team around, he's supporting cast - which isn't bad if the core and the rest of the supporting cast is up to par.
Herrera was never world class to begin with. It's not like he was a fixture in Fergie's United - he's a good player, was a good player at Bilbao, and is a good player at United. Being "good" is enough for Bilbao and for United in certain situations, but not for this team IMO.

As a consquence, Pogba is being asked to do too much and has been getting (mostly) unfair criticism.
Put Modric, peak Iniesta, KDB or another top midfielder in Pogba's shoes, they still couldn't push that team to next level.

...

Now as far as Mourinho goes. This is the 2nd time you mentioned that his Real stint was somehow a failure.

Just to recap Mou at Madrid, because apparently people forgot.

Prior to Mou coming there, Real was in shambles. Not winning ANY trophies in 4 years, not getting past CL 2nd round in 6 (SIX!) years.

And yes, Mou's 3rd season was marred by turmoil, but the 3-year stint resulted in this:
- Copa del Rey in his first season (first Madrid trophy of any sort in 4 years)
- La Liga title in 2011-12 - including (for a boring team) - most goals scored ever (121), highest GD (+89), most games won, most away wins, etc.
- 3 straight CL semi-finals (after not getting past 2nd round for 6 years)

Mou didn't necessarily make Madrid into a CL juggernaut that they are today, but he made them matter again, he made them relevant again.
And as far as "boring" football goes, it was not like the United of today - which, I complete agree, is mostly boring.
Mou's Madrid though, was a counter-attacking machine. It was anything but boring IMO. It was just different to what people were used at the time with peak Barca dominating.

Yes Martial has to be coached. That's why his best moments came with a real coach in Monaco.
You continue to downplay Mata is not "a player to build around". Again, as if you needed 11 players to build around. I'm telling you again, good players surrounding 4 WC players is well enough to play offensive football.

Yes, Mou's stint in Madrid is a complete and utter failure.
You keep on ignoring the context.
The context was that was Mou came in, he spent the most money of any team in football history. He brought in Ronaldo as well, who more or less carried Mou's team on his back.
Real fans booed the team because they were playing too defensive. They did, they booed. Real legends openly criticized the quality on the pitch.
It was simply a shameful display. Mou wanted his team to win by hacking, tackling, bullying, creating controversy all the time.

So that most expensive team ever couln't break the CL semi final. They even got embarrassed a few times.
And YOU can say it was not boring. You're simply re-writing history. You'll have to explain Di Stefano and Cruyff that they're wrong then.

Di Stefano, Madrid's honorary president, wrote in his weekly column in sports newspaper Marca that the Portuguese coach's team showed "no personality" after a result that practically clinches Barcelona's third straight league trophy.
"Barcelona's football in the Bernabeu was simply brilliant. Their superiority was there for the whole planet to see," Di Stefano wrote. "Madrid was a team without personality. The decision to try and play Barcelona on the counterattack was clearly not the right one.
"Barcelona play football and dance while Madrid just run back and forth constantly, tiring themselves out."
Di Stefano, 84, is now hoping Real realise that different tactics are needed for Wednesday's Copa del Rey final - the second of four meetings between the Spanish rivals inside 18 days. The pair will also meet in a two-legged Champions League semi-final series.
"We saw clearly that their approach was not the right one. Barcelona were a lion, Madrid a mouse," Di Stefano wrote, before heaping further praise on Barcelona's tactics, a surprise for such a famous Madrid personality.

Meanwhile, Johan Cruyff, a former Barcelona player and coach, said: "It's a huge compliment for Barcelona when Real Madrid start the match at Santiago Bernábeu with seven defenders.
"This game confirmed that Jose Mourinho is a negative coach. He only cares about the restult and doesn't care much for good football."

 

[Evilo]

There is a rumor that Real is prepared to propose 224M€ for Eden Hazard.
Imagine who overrated he would be then !

 

[Evilo]

Kehrer to PSG is official, medical done.

 

[Evilo]

So Rabiot still hasn't signed an extension. He's a year away from leaving on a free.
PSG is not happy about that and clearly, Rabiot's mum being a painful agent for her son, this situation could get ugly.
Barca still is very much after him and Juve and Liverpool as well. Liverpool wants him to reject any offer he has this year and would sign him on a free next summer with a huge contract bonus.

Rabiot rejected the same offer from PSG than he accepted from Barca.

 

[Corto]

Yes, Mou's stint in Madrid is a complete and utter failure.
You keep on ignoring the context.
The context was that was Mou came in, he spent the most money of any team in football history. He brought in Ronaldo as well, who more or less carried Mou's team on his back.
Real fans booed the team because they were playing too defensive. They did, they booed. Real legends openly criticized the quality on the pitch.
It was simply a shameful display. Mou wanted his team to win by hacking, tackling, bullying, creating controversy all the time.

Context is exactly what I am NOT ignoring.

Context is that Madrid was a without a trophy for 4 years before Mou came, and context is that the couldn't get past the 2nd round of the CL for 6 years.

Mou's legacy was a club once again a force to be reckoned with, including a recording breaking La Liga winning season and 3 CL semi-finals in a row.

FWIW, Ronaldo was brought in BEFORE Mou took over. Kaka was brought in BEFORE Mou took over.
Pinning Madrid's big spendings on Mou is false. The season before Mou took over, they spent big - Ronaldo, Kaka, Benzema, Xabi Alonso... And won nothing.

In fact, in 3 years of Mou at Madrid these were the top signings:
09/10 - Di Maria (29.7m), Özil (16.20m), Khedira (12.60m), Carvalho (7.20m)
10/11 - Coentrao (27.00m), Sahin (9.00m), Varane (9.00m), Callejon (4.50m)
11/12 - Modric (27.00m)

Most of those signings, when you look back at it, were either genious (Modric, Varane) or very sensible, at worst.

So again, this is simply not true:

The context was that was Mou came in, he spent the most money of any team in football history.

So, we can either talk about this or make stuff up.

Truth is, in 3 years at Madrid, Mou spent a total of 163.35m
In 08-09 alone, the year before Mou came, when Schuster/Ramos were the managers, Real had spent 232.65m.
And as further comparison, the 3 years Mou was at Madrid, Barca spent 165.00m to Mou's 163.35m

So, not only is not true...
It's also easy to check.

 

[Evilo]

Yes sorry, they did sign a year earlier.
Which doesn't change much to the point : Mourinho had on the pitch the most expensive team ever.
And managed to play counter attack, highly defensive football all the time.

Which prompted several Real fans and officials and former legends to speak out in the press or in the stands against the awful football they were witnessing, as well as the standard of behaviour.

He was a complete failure, and that's why.
Unsurprisingly, Real won the CL as soon as Mou left the club (which was also full of lockerroom disputes).

 

[Corto]

Yes sorry, they did sign a year earlier.
Which doesn't change much to the point : Mourinho had on the pitch the most expensive team ever.
And managed to play counter attack, highly defensive football all the time.

Which prompted several Real fans and officials and former legends to speak out in the press or in the stands against the awful football they were witnessing, as well as the standard of behaviour.

He was a complete failure, and that's why.
Unsurprisingly, Real won the CL as soon as Mou left the club (which was also full of lockerroom disputes).

Real has spent big before Mou and won nothing. And did nothing in the CL.
For a lot of Madrid fans, Mou put them back on the map. He didn't win the CL, no, but winning La Liga and 3 CL semis after years of misery is surely not a "complete failure".

His style of play is up for debate - for me, his Real squad played defensive, yes, but the transition to attack was amazing and displayed some of the best counter attacking football possible.
Somehow, despite being defensive, it produced loads of goals (record-breaking season when the won the La Liga) and, ultimately, success.

His Man Utd... Is just boring.

 

[Evilo]

For a lot of Madrid fans, you know the ones in the stadium who booed, Mourinho set a new standard in terms of ugly football, ugly methods, thugs methods even, and everyday scandals. Nobody ever rated Ramos and co BTW. So who cares about his previous coaches. He was brought in to win the CL BTW.
There's really no debate there, even among Real fans. That should tell you what us neutral (meaning not you ) feel.
Yes it's a failure. For the reasons stated above. And if since he left, Real won the liga once and won 3 CLs, with more or less the same team, it might not be a complete surpise.

 

[bleedblue1223]

There is a rumor that Real is prepared to propose 224M€ for Eden Hazard.
Imagine who overrated he would be then !

Seems silly at this point. Chelsea won't sell unless there is a replacement coming, and that can't happen until the winter now. Assuming we have targets lined up, it would be silly to turn that down.

 

[Bon Esprit]

According to various German sources Sebastian Rudy from Bayern is linked to RB Leipzig.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

So Rabiot still hasn't signed an extension. He's a year away from leaving on a free.
PSG is not happy about that and clearly, Rabiot's mum being a painful agent for her son, this situation could get ugly.
Barca still is very much after him and Juve and Liverpool as well. Liverpool wants him to reject any offer he has this year and would sign him on a free next summer with a huge contract bonus.

Rabiot rejected the same offer from PSG than he accepted from Barca.

He will do an Emre Can.

He knows he has a high profile and any team that can get him on free could offer him front loaded signing bonus (as they don't have to pay transfer fees). Financially it is more benefical for him. For his development as a player not so much. I could definately see him to want away from France after his last turn against the FFP.

I feel PSG unlike Liverpool could afford to froze him like they did with Ben Arfa. I have a feeling he will want to run out his contract.