Transfer: Summer Transfer Rumors and Discussion Part VI

[Savant]

He's there best chance of getting Leipzig to change their mind

Chelsea coming off incredibly weak here and Tuchel is not helping by throwing his players under the bus. He should be really happy with Sterling and Koulibaly and be doubling down on guys like Broja, Colwill, Chalobah, etc., but instead they are floundering and leaking out PR spin disasters like this

Chelsea’s move for Jules Koundé in danger of collapse as Barcelona push

Chelsea’s move for Jules Koundé is in danger of collapsing, with Barcelona refusing to end their pursuit of the Sevilla defender

www.theguardian.com

“We didn’t want Kounde anyway because he is too short, even though we’ve been trying to sign him for two years.”

It’s ridiculous, he was short last year too. This myth that Tuchel isn’t getting backed or isn’t getting the players that he wants needs to be stopped.

 

[cgf]

Offer Timo wasn't gunna change Mukiele's mind, but he was their best chance of convincing Leipzig to let them try to change Mukiele's mind.

 

[Savant]

Offer Timo wasn't gunna change Mukiele's mind, but he was their best chance of convincing Leipzig to let them try to change Mukiele's mind.

Chelsea should just play Colwill. Instead they are alienating by trying and failing to sign every other center back they are after. If I was Colwill I’d be putting a transfer request in. Chelsea was way too late on Mukiele though. RBL might have be one of the only teams to bail them out of Werner but they don’t know what they are doing. Probably because their owner thinks it’s FIFA or FM

 

[JoemAvs]

Offer Timo wasn't gunna change Mukiele's mind, but he was their best chance of convincing Leipzig to let them try to change Mukiele's mind.

You sure they want him back?

I wouldn't if I were them. Especially considering that he probably would ruin their salary structure considering how much he is earning in London right now.

IMO those type of reunions rarely go well. I guess he could do a job for them as Silva backup / another option in attack. But I think Leipzig can do far better salary/fee wise than Timo.
Werner is IMO stuck at Chelsea because nobody in their right minds will offer him anywhere close to these wages he is earning right now.

As a German NT fan I hope he stays put and Hansi somehow finds another solution upfront. I really don't want to see him start in Qatar.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Scamacca to West Ham confirmed for €36M plus bonuses.

Hopefully he’s better than Haller.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Chelsea should just play Colwill. Instead they are alienating by trying and failing to sign every other center back they are after. If I was Colwill I’d be putting a transfer request in. Chelsea was way too late on Mukiele though. RBL might have be one of the only teams to bail them out of Werner but they don’t know what they are doing. Probably because their owner thinks it’s FIFA or FM

Assuming Azpilicueta completes his move, Colwill is possibly 4th on the CB depth chart, and we play a back 3. There is 0 chance a team with top 4 expectations will go into a season with Colwill and Sarr as they first 2 off the bench. Colwill will get his minutes, but we need another CB ahead of him.

I agree with people saying the height thing is stupid. We either put a bid in and tried to sign him for multiple windows and got close to a done deal or we didn't because we thought height was an issue. Obviously height wasn't an issue.

 

[cgf]

You sure they want him back?

I wouldn't if I were them. Especially considering that he probably would ruin their salary structure considering how much he is earning in London right now.

IMO those type of reunions rarely go well. I guess he could do a job for them as Silva backup / another option in attack. But I think Leipzig can do far better salary/fee wise than Timo.
Werner is IMO stuck at Chelsea because nobody in their right minds will offer him anywhere close to these wages he is earning right now.

As a German NT fan I hope he stays put and Hansi somehow finds another solution upfront. I really don't want to see him start in Qatar.

They'd love to have him back, assuming he took a pay cut to fit into their salary structure again. I also doubt it would be long until he was a leading figure for them again. Doubt that he ever regains the confidence he had before leaving for London, so I don't think he will ever rediscovers his finishing...but he has a serious mental block when wearing those blue kits, and I think going back to Leipzig could relieve a lot of that self-defeating pressure he puts on himself.


As for the NT, Havertz (or Gnabry) would be my preferred option at the 9 for Qatar...and soon both Adeyemi & Moukoko will be ahead of Timo for me too...but I'm cool with Werner. He's not as snakebitten for the NT as he has been for chelsea, and he does great work off the ball...he's one of the best pressers Flick has and despite how many chances he has flubbed, his penetrating runs create tons of space for the creative band behind him.

I just hate when we play Werner & Müller together because both would be MUCH better fits if partnered with one of Havertz, Gnabry, Wirtz, Musiala, or Adeyemi in between the wingers...Müller is too slow at this point to take maximum advantage of the spaces Timo creates, and Timo is too wasteful to take full advantage of Müller's passing.

Make it Kai, Musiala, or Wirtz (whenever he's back) coming into the spaces Timo creates and all of a sudden we'd be flowing much more quickly through the final third...or stick Kai, Serge, or Karim on the end of Müller's passes & the goals would be flying in.

 

[Savant]

Assuming Azpilicueta completes his move, Colwill is possibly 4th on the CB depth chart, and we play a back 3. There is 0 chance a team with top 4 expectations will go into a season with Colwill and Sarr as they first 2 off the bench. Colwill will get his minutes, but we need another CB ahead of him.

I agree with people saying the height thing is stupid. We either put a bid in and tried to sign him for multiple windows and got close to a done deal or we didn't because we thought height was an issue. Obviously height wasn't an issue.

I’d take Colwill and Sarr over the backups at Tottenham and Utd. You don’t need another CB ahead of Colwill. You need to develop Colwill. And supposedly Chelsea want to play more Back 4 this season too.

 

[cgf]

Chelsea should just play Colwill. Instead they are alienating by trying and failing to sign every other center back they are after. If I was Colwill I’d be putting a transfer request in. Chelsea was way too late on Mukiele though. RBL might have be one of the only teams to bail them out of Werner but they don’t know what they are doing. Probably because their owner thinks it’s FIFA or FM

They can just loan Colwill to BMG for a couple of years, that tends to work well for them

 

[bleedblue1223]

I’d take Colwill and Sarr over the backups at Tottenham and Utd. You don’t need another CB ahead of Colwill. You need to develop Colwill. And supposedly Chelsea want to play more Back 4 this season too.

Considering how the back 4 went in pre-season, I doubt we actually see much of it. And he can absolutely develop with the minutes that Chalobah received last season as #5 on the depth chart.

We are losing Rudiger, Christensen, and Azpilicueta. Sarr shouldn't be on a team like Chelsea.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

I’m assuming this is a loan?

 

[JoemAvs]

They'd love to have him back, assuming he took a pay cut to fit into their salary structure again. I also doubt it would be long until he was a leading figure for them again. Doubt that he ever regains the confidence he had before leaving for London, so I don't think he will ever rediscovers his finishing...but he has a serious mental block when wearing those blue kits, and I think going back to Leipzig could relieve a lot of that self-defeating pressure he puts on himself.


As for the NT, Havertz (or Gnabry) would be my preferred option at the 9 for Qatar...and soon both Adeyemi & Moukoko will be ahead of Timo for me too...but I'm cool with Werner. He's not as snakebitten for the NT as he has been for chelsea, and he does great work off the ball...he's one of the best pressers Flick has and despite how many chances he has flubbed, his penetrating runs create tons of space for the creative band behind him.

I just hate when we play Werner & Müller together because both would be MUCH better fits if partnered with one of Havertz, Gnabry, Wirtz, Musiala, or Adeyemi in between the wingers...Müller is too slow at this point to take maximum advantage of the spaces Timo creates, and Timo is too wasteful to take full advantage of Müller's passing.

Make it Kai, Musiala, or Wirtz (whenever he's back) coming into the spaces Timo creates and all of a sudden we'd be flowing much more quickly through the final third...or stick Kai, Serge, or Karim on the end of Müller's passes & the goals would be flying in.

I would agree with most of this.
The only thing I disagree with is that I don't think Werner would ever become a leading figure again.
Atleast not as long as Nkunku and a few others that I think are better or atleast more talented will leave them. Thats why I think such a move would be a horrible idea by Leipzig.

But I am pretty down on him and really hope that Hansi goes with Havertz upfront. Hopefully Tuchel will put him there as well (he doesn't have great options atm) and he sticks. Best solution by far IMO. Kai has the talent to develop into a very good striker and that would be a godsend for Germany. Dislike everyother option. Gnabry upfront is horrible IMO and so is Mueller. I am not a huge fan of Adeyemi after this really bad last few months at Salzburg.

We really don't need more of these "Müller role" "half-strikers".
I would love it if Moukoko pans out anytime soon but realistically it will probably take a few more years if it happens.

Gnabry, Wirtz, Müller, Havertz, Werner, Adeyemi and Musiala. All of those guys wanna play the "Müller role" in a way. Some of them can be used elsewhere but it sucks that so many of those guys are "tweeners" and that we don't have any quality strikers and not many "out and out" wingers either.

 

[cgf]

I would agree with most of this.
The only thing I disagree on is that I don't think Werner would ever become a leading figure again.
Atleast not as long as Nkunku and a few others that I think are better or atleast more talented will leave them. Thats why I think such a move would be a horrible idea by Leipzig.

But I am pretty down on him and really hope that Hansi goes with Havertz upfront. Hopefully Tuchel will put him there as well (he doesn't have great options atm) and he sticks. Best solution by far IMO. Kai has the talent to develop into a very good striker and that would be a godsend for Germany.

We really don't need more of these "Müller role" "half-strikers".
I would love it if Moukoko pans out anytime soon but realistically it will probably take a few more years if it happens.

Gnabry, Wirtz, Müller, Havertz, Werner, Adeyemi and Musiala. All of those guys wanna play the "Müller" role in a way. Some of them can be used elsewhere but it sucks that so many of those guys are "tweeners" and that we don't have any quality strikers and not many "out and out" wingers either.

Guys like Nkunku, Szobo, and Olmo would benefit most from Timo coming back. Nkunku is exactly the type of attacker who would be even more dangerous with the kind of spaces Werner opens up.


Kai has talked about how excited he is to play the 9 more this season, so I'm hoping that Tuchel will do just that. But I think we also have a fundamental disagreement on what you call tweeners and I call versatile or well-rounded attackers.

Specialists certainly have their place...thus why I expect Nmecha to get picked for one of the final spots...but having versatile players who can rotate and attack from different positions, as both creator & finisher, is a boon. Having so many of those kinds of attackers capable of fluidly flowing through opposing defenses at such a high level is why I'm bullish on our post-Qatar future.

But if you're looking for a more out & out striker, Adeyemi brings that. His dribbling, explosiveness, and vision allow him to create for others too, but he is more of a goalscorer than a creator at heart.

 

[Savant]

Considering how the back 4 went in pre-season, I doubt we actually see much of it. And he can absolutely develop with the minutes that Chalobah received last season as #5 on the depth chart.

We are losing Rudiger, Christensen, and Azpilicueta. Sarr shouldn't be on a team like Chelsea.

I mean whatever Tuchel wants until he changes his mind or gets fired, right?

 

[JoemAvs]

Guys like Nkunku, Szobo, and Olmo would benefit most from Timo coming back. Nkunku is exactly the type of attacker who would be even more dangerous with the kind of spaces Werner opens up.


Kai has talked about how excited he is to play the 9 more this season, so I'm hoping that Tuchel will do just that. But I think we also have a fundamental disagreement on what you call tweeners and I call versatile or well-rounded attackers.

Specialists certainly have their place...thus why I expect Nmecha to get picked for one of the final spots...but having versatile players who can rotate and attack from different positions, as both creator & finisher, is a boon. Having so many of those kinds of attackers capable of fluidly flowing through opposing defenses at such a high level is why I'm bullish on our post-Qatar future.

But if you're looking for a more out & out striker, Adeyemi brings that. His dribbling, explosiveness, and vision allow him to create for others too, but he is more of a goalscorer than a creator at heart.

I am down on Adeyemi because I actually followed him rather closely last year. And he was really, really bad the second half of the season in Salzburg (the whole team had a bad second half but Adeyemi was especially disappointing given expectations). He will have to first prove to me that he can make it at Dortmund before I realistically consider him for anything NT related.

I am not sure about your first paragraph. IMO Werners weaknesses would hamper the likes of Nkunku and his further development (if you can even call it that given how good he already is).

Leipzig has so many guys that I have somewhat high expectations for (not only on offense but these guys would be impacted by Werner) that should take the next step this year. : Olmo (who ruined his last season with playing the EM and the Olympics but who should be back now at full force), Szobo (needs to show his incredibly talent and see game time) and even Silva (who has to prove that his stint with Frankfurt was no fluke and who is probably crucial if they want to really challenge for anything).
All Werner would do is disrupt their hierarchy and salary structure IMO and block these guys and their development.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Scamacca to West Ham confirmed for €36M plus bonuses.

Hopefully he’s better than Haller.

Satisfied? How you feel about West Ham offseason thus far?

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Satisfied? How you feel about West Ham offseason thus far?

Satisfied with Scamacca? I really don't have a ton of background on the player, to be honest. The fact that his profile so closely aligns with Haller's both scares and confuses me. That was such a dud for West Ham that I'm not sure why Moyes insisted on looking on for a player seemingly so similar. He's more mobile I guess, which is good. Either way, it had literally been three years since West Ham signed a striker and there was no way they could go with just Antonio again, both because his finishing isn't good enough and he's got swiss cheese hamstrings that can go at any time.

As for the window, if the preseason is any indication, they need a lot more than they've gotten. The only signings have been Nayef Aguerd (who is *already* injured and likely out a few months) and Flynn Downes, who's a CM that will be third choice behind Rice/Soucek. The attack looks stale - not enough pace, too slow to make decisions with the ball at their feet. Truth be told, their form was not good second half of last season and it's looked like a continuation of that so far.

We'll see, but I could see a step back this season - even though I think Bowen is primed for even another step forward.

 

[cgf]

I am down on Adeyemi because I actually followed him rather closely last year. And he was really, really bad the second half of the season in Salzburg (the whole team had a bad second half but Adeyemi was especially disappointing given expectations). He will have to first prove to me that he can make it at Dortmund before I realistically consider him for anything NT related.

I am not sure about your first paragraph. IMO Werners weaknesses would hamper the likes of Nkunku and his further development (if you can even call it that given how good he already is).

Leipzig has so many guys that I have somewhat high expectations for (not only on offense but these guys would be impacted by Werner) that should take the next step this year. : Olmo (who ruined his last season with playing the EM and the Olympics but who should be back now at full force), Szobo (needs to show his incredibly talent and see game time) and even Silva (who has to prove that his stint with Frankfurt was no fluke and who is probably crucial if they want to really challenge for anything).
All Werner would do is disrupt their hierarchy and salary structure IMO and block these guys and their development.

I watched them from the very start of the season too, but I have a tough time blaming any individual for Salzburg sputtering down the stretch. They ran away with the league so early and so many of their key players were distracted by their offseason plans, that the collective losing focus was inevitable.

Even with a coach as talented as Jaissle seems to be...and I'm a lot higher on him than I was on Marsch or Rose's work with RBS...it's hard to blame any of their players for losing intensity once Bayern had bounced them from the CL.

Did you catch any of Karim's NT cameos? He fit right in and looked exactly like he did for Salzburg in the first 2/3rds of the season + last year. So he just needs to continue doing what he's already doing for the NT, if/when Flick gives him a bigger opportunity.

Of course, he needs to continue to develop & prove himself at higher & higher levels to make the most of his talent, but I have nothing but optimism towards him after the past 12-18 months. He appears to have matured by leaps & bounds since getting kicked out of Bayern's academy.



I guess it depends on how Werner was used and his mindset towards coming back; i.e would he come back with an inflated ego or the desire to re-prove himself, or something in between? I would like to hope he felt more re-energized & wanted to re-establish himself, but you're right that you can never know.

Obviously, if he was used as a classic 10 behind Silva; while coming back all arrogant & lazy; that would be an absolute disaster for them. But if he was used the way Flick uses him; leading the press & making space for the attacking band behind him?

That should only lead to more opportunities for guys like Nkunku, Szobo, Olmo, Angelino, & Baku to rush into dangerous positions from which to create or score, than they get with Silva parked in the middle as the spearhead of their attack.

Silva would be squeezed out of their best 11 & relegated to a joker role in the biggest matches in that scenario, but they could also play Werner off of Silva...the way they used to play Timo when he was there and the way they played their creatives off of Silva after Marsch was fired last season.

That second approach would mean Timo's arrival added more competition to those spots around Silva, but rotating between the two systems based on fitness & opposition should leave plenty of PT for everyone as long as they don't s*** the bed in europe early.

Bayern will have 6 established attackers + 2 or 3 starlets + ECMC that will all play this season. Leipzig has no kids who will even get cameos; so they would have enough PT for Silva, Poulsen, Werner, Nkunku, Szobo, Olmo, & Forsberg...even if they all stayed abnormally healthy this season.

Poulsen might not play very much without injuries and Silva would not be featured the same if they opted for a more Flick-like usage of Timo...but the top talents I mentioned in my last post, should only do better with Timo making space & pressuring the ball for them instead of Silva.

 

[Peen]

Savant showing his ass

Why just keep repeating the same nonsense after being exposed on this a week ago?

We are talking about Malang Sarr and a teenage CB with no top flight experience being your first two pieces off the bench where you have an ancient Silva.

Genuinely stupid.

Anyways, that apprehensiveness about Kounde article is stupid. If we never felt ok about his height, whatever else, then we should have never bid for him.

The delay in handling outgoing transfers was also stupid. Should have been handling it over the last two months.

Batshuayi, Barkley, Sarr, RLC, Kenedy - lol.

Four left wingers with CHO, Pulisic, Werner, Sterling. Two of those guys want out.

Ziyech wants out on the right.

Have Emerson back from loan so we should be letting Alonso leave.

Kepa’s massive wages and desire to start.

Azpi’s wish to leave should be respected like Cech’s was.

I understand not everything should be possible, but, uh, we have handled zero exits with like 35 players hanging around.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Don’t know his reliability but seems like a decent deal for both teams if true. I’d assume fake but there have been rumblings so.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Don’t know his reliability but seems like a decent deal for both teams if true. I’d assume fake but there have been rumblings so.

Guy was hot garbage at Norwich.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Savant showing his ass

Why just keep repeating the same nonsense after being exposed on this a week ago?

We are talking about Malang Sarr and a teenage CB with no top flight experience being your first two pieces off the bench where you have an ancient Silva.

Genuinely stupid.

Anyways, that apprehensiveness about Kounde article is stupid. If we never felt ok about his height, whatever else, then we should have never bid for him.

The delay in handling outgoing transfers was also stupid. Should have been handling it over the last two months.

Batshuayi, Barkley, Sarr, RLC, Kenedy - lol.

Four left wingers with CHO, Pulisic, Werner, Sterling. Two of those guys want out.

Ziyech wants out on the right.

Have Emerson back from loan so we should be letting Alonso leave.

Kepa’s massive wages and desire to start.

Azpi’s wish to leave should be respected like Cech’s was.

I understand not everything should be possible, but, uh, we have handled zero exits with like 35 players hanging around.

This is one of the critiques I have of the Roman era, extending the contracts of players that we sent on loan and never wanted to keep, only because we held out hope for a transfer fee at the end of the loan. That's why we are left with a bunch of players on too high of wages that no one wants. These players should have just had their contracts run out and leave as free agents.

Current ownership is left to deal with the issue, but I hope they don't repeat the same mistake.

 

[Savant]

Savant showing his ass

Why just keep repeating the same nonsense after being exposed on this a week ago?

We are talking about Malang Sarr and a teenage CB with no top flight experience being your first two pieces off the bench where you have an ancient Silva.

Genuinely stupid.

Anyways, that apprehensiveness about Kounde article is stupid. If we never felt ok about his height, whatever else, then we should have never bid for him.

The delay in handling outgoing transfers was also stupid. Should have been handling it over the last two months.

Batshuayi, Barkley, Sarr, RLC, Kenedy - lol.

Four left wingers with CHO, Pulisic, Werner, Sterling. Two of those guys want out.

Ziyech wants out on the right.

Have Emerson back from loan so we should be letting Alonso leave.

Kepa’s massive wages and desire to start.

Azpi’s wish to leave should be respected like Cech’s was.

I understand not everything should be possible, but, uh, we have handled zero exits with like 35 players hanging around.

Hold on.

Bleedblue says you can’t make top four with Colwill and Sarr. I said I’d rather have Colwill and Sarr than the backups at Tottenham and Utd who are also going to be competing for top four. I think that’s pretty fair? Why did y’all buy Sarr if he is so bad? Colwill was best CB in the Championship last year and certainly deserves those minutes. Not all doom and gloom there. Even if Sarr isn’t awesome I’m taking him over guys like Rodon, Tanganga and Phil Jones.

But if I am a young player like Colwill and I see Chelsea keep trying to add 50m defenders to go in front of me on the depth chart, why would I want to stay there? Especially if it’s not even their top choices. Mukiele was what? Plan D? That’s insulting. I’d want out.

If I am being unfair, please let me know.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Hold on.

Bleedblue says you can’t make top four with Colwill and Sarr. I said I’d rather have Colwill and Sarr than the backups at Tottenham and Utd who are also going to be competing for top four. I think that’s pretty fair? Why did y’all buy Sarr if he is so bad? Colwill was best CB in the Championship last year and certainly deserves those minutes. Not all doom and gloom there. Even if Sarr isn’t awesome I’m taking him over guys like Rodon, Tanganga and Phil Jones.

But if I am a young player like Colwill and I see Chelsea keep trying to add 50m defenders to go in front of me on the depth chart, why would I want to stay there? Especially if it’s not even their top choices. Mukiele was what? Plan D? That’s insulting. I’d want out.

If I am being unfair, please let me know.

We bought Sarr for the same stupid reason for why we extended the contracts of players we sent on loan. Sarr was only purchased because he was a free agent that we hoped to eventually flip for some decent fee. I don't believe you for a second that you'd take Sarr over some of these other backups.

I didn't say you can't finish top 4, but you are playing with fire, especially when you have someone as old as Silva back there. You are one injury away from potentially having a backline that can be torn apart by top sides if Colwill proves he's not ready.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

In case it wasn't obvious that Savant has no idea what he's talking about, it's worth emphasizing that Mukiele (a RB/RCB) and Colwill (a LCB/LB) would not be in contention for the same spots