Speculation: Summer 24 moves

Which UFAs should we sign

  • Monahan (3 yeas $5M)

    Votes: 25 13.5%
  • Toffoli (3 yeas $5M)

    Votes: 17 9.2%
  • Stamkos (2 years $11M)

    Votes: 25 13.5%
  • Reinhart ( 7 years $10M)

    Votes: 17 9.2%
  • Perry (1 year $1M)

    Votes: 14 7.6%
  • Marchessault (3 years $5M)

    Votes: 40 21.6%
  • Duclair (5 years $5M)

    Votes: 7 3.8%
  • Hoffman (Free)

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 26 14.1%
  • No one this summer

    Votes: 76 41.1%

  • Total voters
    185

Rapala

Registered User
Mar 29, 2013
39,501
35,139
Montreal
Yes, I said that, referring to it as "retention" coming off the books for $4.268M


In a year or two, we might have the Deputy.

But seriously, is it really the case that before a top-line scorer, an effective shutdown guy like 2021 Danault, a deft PMD or a .910 SVP goaltender, you want a better 4th liner?
Yes because I think we need to fill as many holes as possible as quickly as possible.
A lot of kids are out there leaving their guts on the ice every night with little hope of winning many games.
We owe it to them.

You can't spout culture one year and then not do everything in your power to follow up with action the next.
This is my idea of what good management understands and does.
Just because the top isn't set doesn't mean we can't address other OBVIOUS needs.
If something better falls into our hands great but we are not competing with that bottom.
No way no how.
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
20,813
9,164
Yes because I think we need to fill as many holes as possible as quickly as possible.
A lot of kids are out there leaving their guts on the ice every night with little hope of winning many games.
We owe it to them.

You can't spout culture one year and then not do everything in your power to follow up with action the next.
This is my idea of what good management understands and does.
Just because the top isn't set doesn't mean we can't address other OBVIOUS needs.
If something better falls into our hands great but we are not competing with that bottom.
No way no how.
I get that White-Pezzetta-Ylonen is a crappy fourth line, but Dvorak-Evans-Armia is a very good fourth line. Might rival the Golden Knights.

So getting 3 forwards for the top 9 pushes the third liners down to the fourth, win-win.
 

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
24,811
18,246
Quebec City, Canada
I get that White-Pezzetta-Ylonen is a crappy fourth line, but Dvorak-Evans-Armia is a very good fourth line. Might rival the Golden Knights.

So getting 3 forwards for the top 9 pushes the third liners down to the fourth, win-win.
Since you pay 9.5 millions for your 4th line it will be very hard to have a competitive top 9. Specially since you pay 12 millions for 66% of the 3rd line with Gallagher and Anderson. That's 21.5 millions for 5 of the 6 bottom 6 players.
 
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BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
20,813
9,164
Since you pay 9.5 millions for your 4th line it will be very hard to have a competitive top 9. Specially since you pay 12 millions for 66% of the 3rd line with Gallagher and Anderson. That's 21.5 millions for 5 of the 6 bottom 6 players.
Cheese is Price.

I showed how it works three times already.

Roy is on ELC. Slaf is on ELC for another year.

Dach and Newhook are affordable.

There are only 2 Ds over $1.4M right now.

The two Goalies cost only $4M combined.

If we manage to move just Anderson, we can afford $10.5M for Toffoli and Monahan or equivalent middle six solid players, $8M for Montour or another good D-man, and Zegras or another $7M forward.

The following year, we give raises to Slaf and Guhle but save $15M with the expiry of Armia, Dvorak, Savard and Evans and including the Petry and Allen retentions.
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
32,385
24,866
You're not going to get a Kakko or Perreault unless Anderson was playing at his previous level (or gets back there). New York probably wouldn't even do it one for one without Montreal adding.

I do get the logic, but at the same time it may be worth it to just see what Anderson looks like next season. It can't get any worse and it makes some sense to just let him play his game instead of trying to teach him to make plays or defend.
Yes, I'm also willing to retain on Anderson and add.
 

Rapala

Registered User
Mar 29, 2013
39,501
35,139
Montreal
I get that White-Pezzetta-Ylonen is a crappy fourth line, but Dvorak-Evans-Armia is a very good fourth line. Might rival the Golden Knights.

So getting 3 forwards for the top 9 pushes the third liners down to the fourth, win-win.
No they really aren't.
You tell me what Dvorak and Evans have ever done that qualifies them as good fourth line players.
They don't hit they don't score they don't have extremely high face off numbers they can't kill penalties they don't play in the oppositions end of the rink.
They aren't nasty they can't defend their team mates they are actually the antithesis of what a fourth line should look like.
Claiming they might rival with Vegas is laughable and it's thinking like this that will hold back our progress.

Our PK has given up the most goals in the league and has been terrible ever since the Covid Cup.
The players directly responsible for these roles have no business on our club going forward.
The only player showing his worth is Armia and how long can we trust that to last.
 

Draft

Registered User
Jan 23, 2013
8,438
5,123
No they really aren't.
You tell me what Dvorak and Evans have ever done that qualifies them as good fourth line players.
They don't hit they don't score they don't have extremely high face off numbers they can't kill penalties they don't play in the oppositions end of the rink.
They aren't nasty they can't defend their team mates they are actually the antithesis of what a fourth line should look like.
Claiming they might rival with Vegas is laughable and it's thinking like this that will hold back our progress.

Our PK has given up the most goals in the league and has been terrible ever since the Covid Cup.
The players directly responsible for these roles have no business on our club going forward.
The only player showing his worth is Armia and how long can we trust that to last.
I don’t particularly like either of them, but Dvorak is comfortably in the top-10 for FO% this year and is typically very strong in this area. He’s a solid PKer and shutdown center. We wanted him to be a 2nd line player, but he’s a decent 3rd liner and an exceptional 4th line player. He’s a terrible fit on this team in terms of style of play and chemistry with teammates.
 

Scintillating10

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
19,557
8,977
Nova Scotia
Sign a veteran defenseman as UFA. Habs give up a lot of shots. Another Savard type. Identify our 3 best young D, keep them. Trade one of our young D for top forward. We still have Reinbacher, Hutson, Mailloux in system. That's plenty youth on Blueline
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
20,813
9,164
No they really aren't.
You tell me what Dvorak and Evans have ever done that qualifies them as good fourth line players.

Dvorak 55-60% in the dot

Evans 52%

Evans and Armia are our top penalty killers who have drastically upped their numbers since we switched to a more aggressive style.

The days of goons on your fourth line are gone. Teams need players who won't get wolfed down for lunch on the road. All three of the players I listed can chip in on offence and that is a must these days.

Could Heineman replace Armia and Beck replace Evans? Yes perhaps, and that is what we will find out in the coming 12-18 months. All three of the contracts expire in June 2025 so we are not stuck with $9.55M for that line beyond then.
They don't hit they don't score they don't have extremely high face off numbers they can't kill penalties they don't play in the oppositions end of the rink.

They DO have good FO numbers, they DO forecheck well, they CAN kill penalties, and they will outscore almost any other 4th line in the league.

They aren't nasty they can't defend their team mates they are actually the antithesis of what a fourth line should look like.
Claiming they might rival with Vegas is laughable and it's thinking like this that will hold back our progress.

The Vegas 4th line stood out showing the ability to play against any line because they have a modicum of talent.

This sub-thread started with you supporting the idea that we should not bring in a top D or some very good second line players to bolster our third line because we need an upgrade on Pezzetta first (not ALSO but first!!). You want us to wait a YEAR with up to $18,000,000 of unused cap space until Pezzetta is replaced.

However, Armia and Evans ARE the upgrades to Pezzetta. Maybe soon Florian Xhekaj or Luke Tuch or Jared Davidson will take over. None of the guys I suggest for next year's 4th line have too much term and will not block any good up and comers.

Our PK has given up the most goals in the league and has been terrible ever since the Covid Cup.

You mean since Jake Allen was our main goaltender?


The players directly responsible for these roles have no business on our club going forward.

A Montour will help. Keep Savard. Develop Struble and Xhekaj as solid d-zone guys liike Chiarot and Edmundson were on the PK in 2021. Get Suzuki and Matheson off PK duty so they can dominate the first shift after a kill or even rebound after an unfortunate GA.
The only player showing his worth is Armia and how long can we trust that to last.
He'll be playing for his next contract and I'm fairly sure he will be three times the player Pezzetta is.
 

Vachon23

Registered User
Oct 14, 2015
18,244
21,230
Victoriaville
I'd wait, UFA wise, perhaps some real toughness in the bottom-6 to add some grit to the forward group would be nice, but we do have some UFA-to-be to figure out first, and I agree with what some said already, I think 2025 will be the time to try to make a splash. We're not just 1 quality player away from contention, we're 'experience away' though.
The first thing I'd like to see is a serious upgrade on Michael Pezzetta.
Marty doesn't like him doesn't play him and we can do much better if we decide to pay a few $$$$.

The attributes have to be as folllows.
Size Strength Speed Nastiness Smart and a Team Guy.
Good on the PK would be a huge bonus.

We really need a foil for Arber Xhekaj any ideas anyone?
I do think where gonna go after William Carrier and it would be a good acquisition
 

Catanddogguitarrr

Registered User
Jul 3, 2016
7,731
5,816
Nowhere land
I would trade Caufield. He in first line and team is not never going to succeed.
Take it easy.
I was thinking the same. But to get a top pick ala Celebrini or one of the top centers. Caufield + 2 late first round picks for Celebrini. The way we are winning games, we might fall into 10th overall pick. This is our last year to pick a top line center or top forward. Next year the tanking will be gone, we'll miss the PO spot by 3 pts and draft 15th.
Take it easy.
 

Rapala

Registered User
Mar 29, 2013
39,501
35,139
Montreal
Dvorak 55-60% in the dot

Evans 52%

Evans and Armia are our top penalty killers who have drastically upped their numbers since we switched to a more aggressive style.

The days of goons on your fourth line are gone. Teams need players who won't get wolfed down for lunch on the road. All three of the players I listed can chip in on offence and that is a must these days.

Could Heineman replace Armia and Beck replace Evans? Yes perhaps, and that is what we will find out in the coming 12-18 months. All three of the contracts expire in June 2025 so we are not stuck with $9.55M for that line beyond then.


They DO have good FO numbers, they DO forecheck well, they CAN kill penalties, and they will outscore almost any other 4th line in the league.



The Vegas 4th line stood out showing the ability to play against any line because they have a modicum of talent.

This sub-thread started with you supporting the idea that we should not bring in a top D or some very good second line players to bolster our third line because we need an upgrade on Pezzetta first (not ALSO but first!!). You want us to wait a YEAR with up to $18,000,000 of unused cap space until Pezzetta is replaced.

However, Armia and Evans ARE the upgrades to Pezzetta. Maybe soon Florian Xhekaj or Luke Tuch or Jared Davidson will take over. None of the guys I suggest for next year's 4th line have too much term and will not block any good up and comers.



You mean since Jake Allen was our main goaltender?




A Montour will help. Keep Savard. Develop Struble and Xhekaj as solid d-zone guys liike Chiarot and Edmundson were on the PK in 2021. Get Suzuki and Matheson off PK duty so they can dominate the first shift after a kill or even rebound after an unfortunate GA.

He'll be playing for his next contract and I'm fairly sure he will be three times the player Pezzetta is.
Dude

First of all our good PK during the Covid C was Danault Suzuki and Armia plus our lumber jack Dmen.
Look at the standings and numbers these past three seasons and tell me all this with a straight face.
What could possibly make anyone want to hang on to these guys they are not getting the job done.
Dvorak seems to lose his critical draws both when he was tasked with it on the PP and OT and obviously on our dog shit PK.
The dude would have to maintain above 60% to hold worth given the little else he does.
As for Vegas and their fourth line the reason they are ideal is because they check far more boxes than most other fourth lines around the league.
They all skate well they all finish checks well they cycle the puck well and control the boards well.
They have some nastiness and can drop them when necessary... and it will be necessary on occasion.
Nobody is asking for goons where did I ask for a goon?

Find me players who can check these boxes because ours don't even come close.
Find me the players who can wear down the opposition and allow us to control a zone for lengthy periods of time.
The ones who allow us to get in shift changes while stranding the opposition.
You know like teams do to us.
Do you see that in Evans and or Dvorak because I don't and neither are suited for that type of role.

Damphousse was talking about our center group last evening after Suzuki and Dach he's not a fan like at all.
One of those two will likely start as a third line center next year but keeping both is redundant.
They will both be gone by the following season no doubt about it.

I'm not ignorant of what we have in the pipe but those players are likely two and three years out.
Heineman like Evans like Dvorak are suited for 3rd line roles not 4th.
The third line is going to be one crowded place very soon.
We can't keep them all and we've already seen what the placeholders can't do.


Oh and stop it with you pipe dream acquisitions while you are at it.
We aren't spending a dime on Brandon Montour.
 
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salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
13,901
14,917
Stand still this summer and go all in on Draisaitl summer 2025 if he’s a free agent.
Highly improbable Draisaitl goes from lowest tax province in Canada to the highest - if he leaves Edm, he’ll go to a US non traditional market or NYR.

Another roadblock, the bonus structured contract advantage Cdn teams have for US resident players don’t apply to Draisaitl - he can only maximize take home $ in a U.S. market
 

le_sean

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
40,442
41,297
Highly improbable Draisaitl goes from lowest tax province in Canada to the highest - if he leaves Edm, he’ll go to a US non traditional market or NYR.

Another roadblock, the bonus structured contract advantage Cdn teams have for US resident players don’t apply to Draisaitl - he can only maximize take home $ in a U.S. market
Wouldn’t that mean he’s already made a bunch of money? If he leaves I would think it means Edmonton hasn’t won a Cup and he wants to win, maybe doing it while not being in McDavid’s shadow. Habs could be pretty good by 2025.
 

Rapala

Registered User
Mar 29, 2013
39,501
35,139
Montreal
I don’t particularly like either of them, but Dvorak is comfortably in the top-10 for FO% this year and is typically very strong in this area. He’s a solid PKer and shutdown center. We wanted him to be a 2nd line player, but he’s a decent 3rd liner and an exceptional 4th line player. He’s a terrible fit on this team in terms of style of play and chemistry with teammates.
Meh he has a penchant for losing the important ones. Dvorak is not even a great 3rd line player.
Vanilla as they come. I'm always amazed to hear people saying how good defensively these guys are.
Yet we continually find ourselves near the bottom of the heap in goal differential and PK%.
I know it's not all on them but it is a primary role.
 

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
13,901
14,917
Wouldn’t that mean he’s already made a bunch of money? If he leaves I would think it means Edmonton hasn’t won a Cup and he wants to win, maybe doing it while not being in McDavid’s shadow. Habs could be pretty good by 2025.
Perhaps but from what I’ve witnessed of players in their prime, it always comes down to $$ - and there’s always an American no / low tax team willing to ante up

Draisaitl has also shown lots of frustration with Edm media, Mtl media is the most demanding of all teams

Would be great if he decides to sign w Habs, but not holding my breath
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
20,813
9,164
I'd wait, UFA wise, perhaps some real toughness in the bottom-6 to add some grit to the forward group would be nice, but we do have some UFA-to-be to figure out first, and I agree with what some said already, I think 2025 will be the time to try to make a splash. We're not just 1 quality player away from contention, we're 'experience away' though.
Correct, but we are able to add 3, 4 or 5 quality players right away this fall.

Three $5M-$8M contracts if we can't move Anderson.

Four $5M-$8M contracts if we can move Anderson.

Add one more if our first pick gets us a Celebrini, Demidov or Eiserman.

If we use the cap space we have, 2024-25 is the experience year and 2025-26 is serious competitiveness.
 

Vachon23

Registered User
Oct 14, 2015
18,244
21,230
Victoriaville
Wouldn’t that mean he’s already made a bunch of money? If he leaves I would think it means Edmonton hasn’t won a Cup and he wants to win, maybe doing it while not being in McDavid’s shadow. Habs could be pretty good by 2025.
Not sure we will give the best opportunity to win the cup though.
 

Aces on the road

Registered User
Oct 27, 2020
441
191
I was thinking the same. But to get a top pick ala Celebrini or one of the top centers. Caufield + 2 late first round picks for Celebrini. The way we are winning games, we might fall into 10th overall pick. This is our last year to pick a top line center or top forward. Next year the tanking will be gone, we'll miss the PO spot by 3 pts and draft 15th.
Take it easy.
He is good scorer but that is all. Teams gets more advantage playing against him.
40 goals would be enough but I doubt.
1st, 2nd + prospect+ roster player.
 
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le_sean

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
40,442
41,297
Not sure we will give the best opportunity to win the cup though.
We could be a great option depending how our 2024 Top-10 pick, Hutson and Reinbacher look. Imagine joining a team where Nick Suzuki becomes a 2C, and you could have Slafkovsky and Caufield as wingers. Great young defence too. Solid pipeline. Great management team and possibly coaching.
 

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
24,811
18,246
Quebec City, Canada
I don’t particularly like either of them, but Dvorak is comfortably in the top-10 for FO% this year and is typically very strong in this area. He’s a solid PKer and shutdown center. We wanted him to be a 2nd line player, but he’s a decent 3rd liner and an exceptional 4th line player. He’s a terrible fit on this team in terms of style of play and chemistry with teammates.
He's also paid too much for a 3rd line center.
 
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