Speculation: Summer 2018 Roster Discussion Part IV

[Lebanezer]

Columbus and Ottawa have to come to terms with the fact that their assets without extensions are not going to get good returns. Ottawa should have traded Karlsson at the deadline last year. Panarin, if he won’t sign an extension with a team isn’t going to get a player like Meier.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Columbus and Ottawa have to come to terms with the fact that their assets without extensions are not going to get good returns. Ottawa should have traded Karlsson at the deadline last year. Panarin, if he won’t sign an extension with a team isn’t going to get a player like Meier.

I forgot what was the deal on the table with Vegas? Ottawa will probably get less than that now.

 

[Lebanezer]

I forgot what was the deal on the table with Vegas? Ottawa will probably get less than that now.

I’m not totally sure, the rumors I remember were 2018 1st, Colin Miller or Shea Theodore and something else. I believe Ottawa adamant about Cody Glass and Vegas didn’t want do it.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I forgot what was the deal on the table with Vegas? Ottawa will probably get less than that now.

From what I can recall, it was Theodore/Miller, Brannstrom/Hague, 1st round pick, and X.

X being one of Cody Glass or Nick Suzuki. Vegas was willing to do it if X was Suzuki, but refused to give up Cody Glasss.

 

[Lebanezer]

From what I can recall, it was Theodore/Miller, Brannstrom/Hague, 1st round pick, and X.

X being one of Cody Glass or Nick Suzuki. Vegas was willing to do it if X was Suzuki, but refused to give up Cody Glasss.

I wonder if Vegas simply didn’t want to trade their 1st draft pick ever. I would have said yes to Miller, Hague/Brannstrom, 1st and Glass.

 

[Barrie22]

Trouba 1 year at 5.5.

 

[Hinterland]

Columbus and Ottawa have to come to terms with the fact that their assets without extensions are not going to get good returns. Ottawa should have traded Karlsson at the deadline last year. Panarin, if he won’t sign an extension with a team isn’t going to get a player like Meier.

At least not an NHL ready player like that, no. A prospect with a similar ceiling maybe but that's not what Columbus wants since they're not rebuilding.
If they're smart they'll allow other teams to negotiate a contract with Panarin but they're probably still hoping for Panarin to change his mind.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Doesn't look good for Columbus when a roster player basically says he doesn't want to sign with them.

 

[Hinterland]

Doesn't look good for Columbus when a roster player basically says he doesn't want to sign with them.

I understood that he doesn't want to talk a contract with them for now. He could still change his mind and that's why I think they're just listening rather than shopping hard and allowing other teams to negotiate with Panarin. But yeah. Doesn't look good for them.

 

[Sysreq]

I’ve been to Columbus. I can totally understand why Panarin doesn’t want to sign long term there.

 

[Lebanezer]

@JoeThorntonsRooster was just having a discussion on the main boards about the prospect systems of the sharks vs. leafs in relation to a Panarin trade. One guy said the difference between Merkley and Sandin is negligible, and that is one of many reasons why I never post on the main boards.

 

[Maladroit]

I’ve been to Columbus. I can totally understand why Panarin doesn’t want to sign long term there.

Exactly. It doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on the organization. It's just, if you're Panarin and can pick where you want to live for the next seven years why the hell would you pick Columbus?

 

[Hinterland]

@JoeThorntonsRooster was just having a discussion on the main boards about the prospect systems of the sharks vs. leafs in relation to a Panarin trade. One guy said the difference between Merkley and Sandin is negligible, and that is one of many reasons why I never post on the main boards.

Sandin sucks. Couldn't beat out anybody on the worst SHL defense and got perma scratched. A 1st rounder should easily be able to earn a spot on a bad SHL team in his draft year. Some late round picks were regulars for better teams and in better leagues last season. Sandin is small but still no special skillset and also not a good skater. Red flags all over him. A few OHL points aren't gonna change my mind. I don't even see one reason why he shouldn't be a bust. There's just nothing exciting. Nothing but a few OHL points that would justify a 1st round pick.
Merkley's ceiling is sky high. Obviously some different concerns and we'll have to wait and see how that works out but to compare him with a crap pick like Sandin is a joke. Sandin is a terrible pick but that's what you get when you wanna get more picks just for the sake of it and at all costs. Stupid Du(m)bas(s)...

 

[boylerroom]

Two words: Leafs Fans.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Everyone tends to overrate "their" team's assets. Some fans can be particularly worse because it is a much larger fanbase and it is easier to insulate oneself.

I'm pretty sure at this point that Karlsson, Goodrow, and Sorenson have no trade value, and Gambrell/Letunov/Balcers probably have very little trade value.

 

[WSS11]

Everyone tends to overrate "their" team's assets. Some fans can be particularly worse because it is a much larger fanbase and it is easier to insulate oneself.

I'm pretty sure at this point that Karlsson, Goodrow, and Sorenson have no trade value, and Gambrell/Letunov/Balcers probably have very little trade value.

Yeah but leafs fans are on another level of homerism. The way they spoke about Morgan Reilly made him sound like they had the next Paul Coffey.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Everyone tends to overrate "their" team's assets. Some fans can be particularly worse because it is a much larger fanbase and it is easier to insulate oneself.

I'm pretty sure at this point that Karlsson, Goodrow, and Sorenson have no trade value, and Gambrell/Letunov/Balcers probably have very little trade value.

I would actually think it depends on the assets we are talking about. People will generally tend to overvalue their teams prospects or younger roster players. But at the same time most bottom-6 F or 3rd pairing D will get massively undervalued by the own team. Specially if those are older players.

DW has pulled so many trades in the last few years where we were shocked by the value he got back.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yeah but leafs fans are on another level of homerism. The way they spoke about Morgan Reilly made him sound like they had the next Paul Coffey.

The fact that a large majority of Leafs fans are convinced that Morgan Rielly is a #1D is breath-takingly hilarious.

 

[Lebanezer]

The fact that a large majority of Leafs fans are convinced that Morgan Rielly is a #1D is breath-takingly hilarious.

Everything they touch turns to gold. Their best players are better than everyone else’s best players except maybe McDavid. The rest of the league is blessed to be graced with their presence. After all, they make childhood dreams come true.

 

[hockeyball]

Be pretty funny to start a message board about hockey and then ban all Toronto fans, I wonder what that would be like? hehe

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Everyone tends to overrate "their" team's assets. Some fans can be particularly worse because it is a much larger fanbase and it is easier to insulate oneself.

I'm pretty sure at this point that Karlsson, Goodrow, and Sorenson have no trade value, and Gambrell/Letunov/Balcers probably have very little trade value.

After his playoff run, it’s very likely that at least one or two teams seriously like Sorensen and would be willing to give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him, or would demand he be a part of the return for a superior player.

The rest, I can generally agree with.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

After his playoff run, it’s very likely that at least one or two teams seriously like Sorensen and would be willing to give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him, or would demand he be a part of the return for a superior player.

The rest, I can generally agree with.

I am actually really surprised at how few people on our boards think Karlsson has no value. He has scored 19+ points each of the last 4 seasons. I know he makes 2M per season which is a little too much for a 4th line player but I have no doubt that he can get us a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

[Maladroit]

I am actually really surprised at how few people on our boards think Karlsson has no value. He has scored 19+ points each of the last 4 seasons. I know he makes 2M per season which is a little too much for a 4th line player but I have no doubt that he can get us a 3rd or 4th round pick.

I'm really skeptical of that. In fact I'd say Karlsson has negative value. He's a 13th forward making $2 million for another two seasons. It just doesn't make any sense for a team to acquire that contract when they could just sign a superior UFA forward like Hansen, Colborne or Matthias for less money and likely a one-year term.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I'm really skeptical of that. In fact I'd say Karlsson has negative value. He's a 13th forward making $2 million for another two seasons. It just doesn't make any sense for a team to acquire that contract when they could just sign a superior UFA forward like Hansen, Colborne or Matthias for less money and likely a one-year term.

I totally disagree about him being a negative value. The only reason he is a arguably the 13th forward on our team is because we are enamored by what our 'kids' could do and that they are cheaper than Karlsson. I think Karlsson gets way too much hate because of the amount of money he makes.

Without Karlsson what would our 4th line be?

Sorenson-Suomela-Gambrell/Goodrow

Suomela and Gambrell have played a combined 3 games in the NHL and have 0 points. Goodrow is decent and has a 0.24 PPG over the 124 games he has played. But Karlsson has been better with a PPG of 0.33 over his 256 games and has never had less than 19 points over a season. That is pretty damn good for a 4th liner. He draws a lot of penalties as well and is decent defensively. He has also been asked to play up and down in the line-up and has done so well enough.

So sure, you can make the argument that he makes a lot for a 4th liner but I think he is well worth that and would have decent value in a trade. While we think Suomela, Goodrow, Sorenson and Gambrell may make him redundant, that is still to be seen. Karlsson produces more than a any of them albeit at a higher salary.

This is nothing to do with whether I want Karlsson on the team or not. I would be ok losing him simply because we have enough kids to rotate between and hopefully find a cheaper replacement for his production. But I just don't buy the fact that Karlsson has negative value.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Melker Karlsson over his career is a slightly below average 3rd liner and a slightly above average 4th liner who has shown an ability to be a first line F1 and not look completely out of place.

Melker Karlsson this past season was easily the worst player on the team, and does not belong anywhere near an NHL lineup.