Summer '15 Thread II (All Proposals/Blog Rumors in here)

[TaketheCannoli]

It was more of a general question to just see what the options are for the Devils. I don't understand the hostility. It was more just to understand where Columbus was at to see if there was an opportunity for a trade between the two teams to add a young forward. To be honest, the Devils don't have many options aside from trying to pry players off other teams for cheap.

To be honest, I prefer going into a teams boards and having genuine conversations rather than the main thread. The main boards get derailed from one idiotic comment and all constructive conservation is lost. In the Oilers board, I had a full conversation with fans about dealing Larsson or Severson for Draisaitl or a young forward without any posters coming in with some asinine comments to ruin the discussion.



The problem is the Devils have Merrill and Gelinas who may end up being expendable but they're both left-handed D. Our two right handed guys that Columbus would want -- Severson and Larsson -- we can't afford to give up. To be honest, I'm more looking to the guys the Devils can acquire with picks or Merrill/Gelinas not ones that would require Larsson or Severson.

In that case there's not likely to be a deal to be made. I understand the Devils plight, but the Jackets are in a win now mode. If they trade forwards, they will look for a partner who has a deep defensive pool and can trade like for like. Maybe Philly?

The Devils are probably best off if they take the long route and acquire forwards through the draft.

 

[blahblah]

It was more of a general question to just see what the options are for the Devils. I don't understand the hostility.

I already explained it. You're really holding on to this bone aren't you? There are almost no options for the Devils (which I stated in post #1 - a rather nice and respectful post). You should have known that already. There are tools on the Internet to do the research. A few seconds and you would know we are not in cap danger at the beginning of the season. A look at our roster would tell you that we're probably not a hurry to give up Atkinson as we're light at RW. An internet search would give you many articles stating that we were looking at defense. Pretty much everything you need to realize that their really aren't any options.

You are not looking at young forward on our roster. You want Clarkson? He can probably be had for a pick.

I'm out.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The problem is the Devils have Merrill and Gelinas who may end up being expendable but they're both left-handed D. Our two right handed guys that Columbus would want -- Severson and Larsson -- we can't afford to give up. To be honest, I'm more looking to the guys the Devils can acquire with picks or Merrill/Gelinas not ones that would require Larsson or Severson.

Which is what I was talking about in my earlier post on this topic.

 

[Jackets16]

So another "best case scenario" to me other than Winnepeg sucking and us getting Buff for Wennberg+ is probably a more realistic and cheaper option.



I'll start of by saying don't know what New Jersey is doing. While they're not a "bad" team, I really don't see them making the playoffs and almost no chance of winning a round. While they have a few good young pieces each up front and on the backend I don't see these guys' "window" aligned up with the vets they have on the team. I hate what most peoples concept of "the window" is but in this case I think it makes sense. While it seems they are attempting to get younger(which helps this idea) they still have a pretty unique, and IMO "undesired", combo of aging vets and "not quite there" younger players (defenseman mainly). I think they'd be better off selling off their "vets" of value for some younger potential players.

So hope they fail this year and allow their most valuable vet asset (Greene) to become available.

Say Wennberg, Golobeuf/Connauton, Bourque(cap), 2nd or 3rd rounder?

You guys will say its too much but also want or say we "need" an upgrade or "top pairing" defenseman. Well you wont get 1 for much cheaper trade wise and contract wise than this.

Wennberg+ for Buff? That is HORRIBLE.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Wennberg+ for Buff? That is HORRIBLE.

Also wants to do Wennberg ++++ for Greene.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Also wants to do Wennberg ++++ for Greene.

And here I thought it was too early in the morning to be drinking that heavily.

 

[major major]

I already explained it. You're really holding on to this bone aren't you? There are almost no options for the Devils (which I stated in post #1 - a rather nice and respectful post). You should have known that already. There are tools on the Internet to do the research. A few seconds and you would know we are not in cap danger at the beginning of the season. A look at our roster would tell you that we're probably not a hurry to give up Atkinson as we're light at RW. An internet search would give you many articles stating that we were looking at defense. Pretty much everything you need to realize that their really aren't any options.

You are not looking at young forward on our roster. You want Clarkson? He can probably be had for a pick.

I'm out.

This entire spiel is mean spirited and ridiculous. It's not as clear as you suggest that we won't be amenable to trades. Atkinson could be traded to the Devils this year for all you know.

 

[ndd17]

Also wants to do Wennberg ++++ for Greene.

Who wants it, i wonder?

 

[niflheim]

According to Portzline hes the Swedish Datsyuk..

Swedish Datsyuk? new neuronal avalanche from Portzline?

 

[CBJx614]

Swedish Datsyuk? new neuronal avalanche from Portzline?

To watch Wennberg closely over a span of time is to appreciate the intellect in his game. That might sound silly – this is hockey, right? – but he is an extremely cerebral player, much like a young Pavel Datsyuk. Wennberg has the gift of great anticipation, and his snap judgments on quick-read plays are almost always correct. He uses both of these gifts to aid his leverage for the puck along the wall against far bigger players. Scouts often say that he's "always on the right side of the puck." So far in his career, it’s these things – more than his skills with the puck – that make you think he’s going to be a special player. …

Player Profile: Alexander Wennberg

Its small things such as those that I think most people don't see. They look at his 20 pts and terrible +/- and assume he didn't have a good season. And most of those people are the same ones that say Dano is the reason for his success.

 

[major major]

Player Profile: Alexander Wennberg

Its small things such as those that I think most people don't see. They look at his 20 pts and terrible +/- and assume he didn't have a good season. And most of those people are the same ones that say Dano is the reason for his success.

Baloney. I have been praising his smarts for a while now, and I'm very excited by his strong finish. You can believe in Wennbergs skill and his potential and simultaneously recognize that he had a rough year. I watched almost all of his games and he was terrible for the first half of the year. He was paired with just about everybody at some point or another and his lines were consistently outplayed.

 

[thebus2288*]

Wennberg+ for Buff? That is HORRIBLE.

Also wants to do Wennberg ++++ for Greene.

And here I thought it was too early in the morning to be drinking that heavily.

Ok knights of the round table... a few questions...

Do you believe we need an upgrade on our blueline? If so, do you believe that upgrade must be a "legit top pair guy"?--AND/OR-- What type of package do you think would be needed to return Buff or any other "top pairing" guy like Greene?

Then explain to me how Wennberg is worth more than that package....

And the "++++" for Greene is a 5-6 defenseman, a 3rd-4th line cap dump, and a late 2nd or mid 3rd which is basically redundant with all our quality prospects.

Its perfectly fine if you wanna gang up on somebody you don't agree with, it still doesn't make you right. You guys wanna believe that Wennberg is valued around the league like a recent top 10 pick, but he's not. You guys wanna believe that he's a better player or has a more promising future than Rychel but he doesn't....

 

[Jackets16]

Ok knights of the round table... a few questions...

Do you believe we need an upgrade on our blueline? If so, do you believe that upgrade must be a "legit top pair guy"?--AND/OR-- What type of package do you think would be needed to return Buff or any other "top pairing" guy like Greene?

Then explain to me how Wennberg is worth more than that package....

And the "++++" for Greene is a 5-6 defenseman, a 3rd-4th line cap dump, and a late 2nd or mid 3rd which is basically redundant with all our quality prospects.

Its perfectly fine if you wanna gang up on somebody you don't agree with, it still doesn't make you right. You guys wanna believe that Wennberg is valued around the league like a recent top 10 pick, but he's not. You guys wanna believe that he's a better player or has a more promising future than Rychel but he doesn't....

I believe we are good enough. I believe Wennberg is going to be really good. I believe those offers are HORRIBLE value. I believe Wennberg has WAY more value than Buff. I could go on. It is just simply horrible. I am sorry. You SEVERELY underestimate Wennberg's talents and value. You just don't trade guys with Wennberg's talent and hockey IQ. Especially when they are young and cheap.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Ok knights of the round table... a few questions...

Do you believe we need an upgrade on our blueline? If so, do you believe that upgrade must be a "legit top pair guy"?--AND/OR-- What type of package do you think would be needed to return Buff or any other "top pairing" guy like Greene?

Then explain to me how Wennberg is worth more than that package....

And the "++++" for Greene is a 5-6 defenseman, a 3rd-4th line cap dump, and a late 2nd or mid 3rd which is basically redundant with all our quality prospects.

Its perfectly fine if you wanna gang up on somebody you don't agree with, it still doesn't make you right. You guys wanna believe that Wennberg is valued around the league like a recent top 10 pick, but he's not. You guys wanna believe that he's a better player or has a more promising future than Rychel but he doesn't....

You're saying Rychel is absolutely going to be better than Wennberg, then why wouldn't a team demand him instead of Wennberg if it was a 'legit top pair' defenseman? Your logic doesn't make sense.

 

[thebus2288*]

And all I wanna add separately is that 1 of the main reasons(IMO) people were and are bothered about my Wennberg "hate" is that throughout the year(not necessarily every game) I would show video or "highlight" the times and give a pretty detailed explanation(as a hockey player) of what exactly he would do absolutely wrong while on the ice getting scored on. That terrible +/- he had was not a coincidence. He was directly responsible for MANY goals last year.

I think its also understated just how much worse it was before he,and the whole team, went on a huge statistical hot streak. Its crazy how you guys grasp onto this hot streak as proof Wennberg has "made it". Its also even more crazy(and saad) how much most of you attribute the success of certain players(Dano/Hartnell) full seasons and the big run the team went on at the end of the year, mainly to Wennberg. I say that because he's brought up as "the" reason just as much, if not more, than Dubinsky or Jenner, which is just plain ridiculous.

The team went 16-4(following a 7 game losing streak) the final 20 games from Mar. 3rd to Apr.11th.

Wennberg: 16gms 2 goals 9assists 11pts +11 1 powerplay pt
Anisimov: 20gms 3goals 10assists 13pts +5 2 powerplay pts
Dano: 19gms 5goals 10assists 15pts +12 0 powerplay pts
Hartnell: 20gms 14goals 6 assists 20pts +13 5 powerplay pts
Dubinsky: 13gms 5goals 9 assists 14pts +2 3 powerplay pts
Jenner: 11 gms 3goals 2 assists 5pts +3 1 powerplay pt
Atkinson: 20gms 9 goals 6 assists 15pts +4 5 powerplay pts

Those are all pretty good numbers and this is without Foligno or Johansen. I think this puts into perspective just how good the TEAM was at the end of the year.

 

[thebus2288*]

I believe we are good enough. I believe Wennberg is going to be really good. I believe those offers are HORRIBLE value. I believe Wennberg has WAY more value than Buff. I could go on. It is just simply horrible. I am sorry. You SEVERELY underestimate Wennberg's talents and value. You just don't trade guys with Wennberg's talent and hockey IQ. Especially when they are young and cheap.

There's no way that Wennberg has ANY more value than Buff let alone "WAY" more value. Young and cheap or not. Jarmo would never for a second turn down a Buff trade for Wennberg and Bourque(cap). And Winnipeg would never offer it. I'm not doin this as a rental. A signed Buff is worth more to NHL teams than Wennberg is at the moment, bottom line.

You're saying Rychel is absolutely going to be better than Wennberg, then why wouldn't a team demand him instead of Wennberg if it was a 'legit top pair' defenseman? Your logic doesn't make sense.

It makes just as much sense as saying Wennberg is gonna absolutely be better than Rychel. How do you know that the reason we didn't get that D upgrade is because people were asking for RYchel and Jarmo wouldn't give him up?

Oh.... you don't?

Your logic makes no sense.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

It makes just as much sense as saying Wennberg is gonna absolutely be better than Rychel. How do you know that the reason we didn't get that D upgrade is because people were asking for RYchel and Jarmo wouldn't give him up?

Oh.... you don't?

Your logic makes no sense.

Again, i never said Wennberg for sure was going to be better than Rychel. You're the one who's speaking in absolutes, not me. Nobody else here is an advocate of trading either Rychel or Wennberg. People here only wanted to deal Rychel to move up for Hanifin. Who the hell knows what Jarmo was thinking.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Its perfectly fine if you wanna gang up on somebody you don't agree with, it still doesn't make you right.

No more than it makes the opinion being disagreed with right.

You guys wanna believe that Wennberg is valued around the league like a recent top 10 pick, but he's not.

Show me where I've said this.

You guys wanna believe that he's a better player or has a more promising future than Rychel but he doesn't....

Show me where I've said this.

 

[blahblah]

This entire spiel is mean spirited and ridiculous. It's not as clear as you suggest that we won't be amenable to trades. Atkinson could be traded to the Devils this year for all you know.

Get off of it. I phrased it before the beginning of the season. There is almost zero chance that happens. We all know it. We already have young D competing for spots; one of them from the Saad trade with a real chance of making the team.

I already said, in a few posts, to come back at the deadline so the phrase "this year" just proves you didn't bother actually reading the post(s). Pretty much par for the course of those that love to demonize me.

We know that at a later time we are probably going to have to move some salary; I conceded that. Hell I was one of the first on the boards to see that and suggested that Atkinson could be a causality. However the odds of that, especially with the Devils, is almost non-existent.

I gave the guy a polite post in my first response. I'm not going to keep my patience with a cap vulture that can't take a hint and wants to keep probing.

 

[blahblah]

Wennberg+ for Buff? That is HORRIBLE.

To be fair, the value seems right until you consider why would we want to sign that next contract with him. Compound with with that fact that he could end up being a rental? It's a horrible trade idea. Not really sure what thebuss is thinking. His hyperbole on our fan bases valuation of Wennberg is ridiculous. Not sure I've seen anyone value him even remotely close to what he's saying.

I'm not a huge fan of signing 30 somethings to long term deals, no matter who they are. Buff is going to want 6+ years and I don't like to get more than 3 or 4 for a guy that old.

 

[niflheim]

It makes just as much sense as saying Wennberg is gonna absolutely be better than Rychel. How do you know that the reason we didn't get that D upgrade is because people were asking for RYchel and Jarmo wouldn't give him up?

Johansen - Brandon/ Nick - Jenner - Campbell our C axis like stone without "Pavel Filatov" I can't say same about our D, if Murray sucks again...

 

[ndd17]

if Murray sucks again...

Murray suck again, it may become the trend of new season, after which we will hear no talk of an extension his contract, we will hear talk about his retirement because of constant injuries.

 

[blahblah]

Murray suck again, it may become the trend of new season, after which we will hear no talk of an extension his contract, we will hear talk about his retirement because of constant injuries.

At no point has Murray "sucked". He's been injured. Two totally different things.

I highly doubt you'll hear any talk of retirement if he's injured again. It would have to be a degenerative injury. Is that possible with his knee issues? Sure, but an upper body injury (with the exception of maybe concussions), for example, wouldn't prompt consideration of retirement.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Ok knights of the round table... a few questions...

Do you believe we need an upgrade on our blueline? If so, do you believe that upgrade must be a "legit top pair guy"?--AND/OR-- What type of package do you think would be needed to return Buff or any other "top pairing" guy like Greene?

Then explain to me how Wennberg is worth more than that package....

And the "++++" for Greene is a 5-6 defenseman, a 3rd-4th line cap dump, and a late 2nd or mid 3rd which is basically redundant with all our quality prospects.

Its perfectly fine if you wanna gang up on somebody you don't agree with, it still doesn't make you right. You guys wanna believe that Wennberg is valued around the league like a recent top 10 pick, but he's not. You guys wanna believe that he's a better player or has a more promising future than Rychel but he doesn't....

I'm very aware of the bolded part; perhaps no one knows this better than I do. It helps if the initial point prompting the gang-slam was correct or even defensible, which in this case it is not. This is what separates your situation now from any one of mine.

Andy Greene is turning 33 in two months, and is on the downswing of his career. He's signed for $5 mil per year for the next five seasons. And since he's peaked and is declining, it means getting stuck with a declining asset on a roster that's already seeing a glut of defensemen as it is.

Your idea of player values is absurd and bordering on obscene. You have no clue what Wennberg's value around the league is; the only guys I can think of who are recent top-10 picks whose value has legitimately plummeted are guys like Scott Glennie and Dylan McIlrath. Wennberg showed a ton in his rookie year and is expected to continue to develop.

tl;dr - you are wrong, we are not

 

[Mayor Bee]

Murray suck again, it may become the trend of new season, after which we will hear no talk of an extension his contract, we will hear talk about his retirement because of constant injuries.

This is a bit like saying that we've had two bitterly cold winters in Columbus in a row, so obviously we're in an extended deep freeze that is going to lead to temperatures on par with the Chosin Reservoir campaign, and only those who have enough body hair to be confused with a yak or water buffalo are going to survive it, so everyone else should stop procreating because their children stand no chance of making it out of infancy.

This went off the rails long ago and doesn't make any sense, making it a perfectly-suited followup.