Summer '15 Thread II (All Proposals/Blog Rumors in here)

[Sore Loser]

Do not site ESPN before last season predicted that we play in the ECF against Boston(both team not make play-off)? So, by the way.
Well, i very glad that there is a possibility Murray will start training camp without injuries. I wish him all the best and prove that he can to become top def for our team.

Okay, I won't "site" ESPN ever again, because every other sports reporting agency is always correct and they were wrong on their pre-season Eastern Conference Final prediction. Tell me again who had Tampa Bay winning the East but losing to Chicago in the Finals last year? Or better yet, who had Calgary making the playoffs?

Yeah, thought so.

 

[major major]

One. It's the same injury that was aggravated. While he was cleared to play, it seems to me that no one cleared to play is truly 100% so these aren't really separate distinct events.

There's no pattern, nor is he 'injury prone' by any accepted definition of the term. This is a false construct by some CBJ fans for whatever reason. Maybe it's the memory of Klesla. Now there was a guy who was injury prone. To me, injury prone means frequent injuries or easy to injure. Murray had a knee issue and a shoulder. Once repaired, the shoulder was no longer a problem and he played rather well. The knee issue was troubling for how long it lingered and then of course, the freak aggravation of it at the end of last season. Still - same injury.

I would argue that Boone Jenner is 'injury prone' more than I would Ryan Murray. Length of time missed to injuries has nothing to do with frequency in Murray's case.

Many are way too quick to label these guys based on very limited data, IMO. Again, Klesla hangover, I guess.

If you read more closely you'll notice I'm referring to past events, not making predictions. Two season ruining injuries in three years is A LOT. And one 66 game season in between doesn't prove much. I get what you are saying, I'm not convinced.

 

[ndd17]

Okay, I won't "site" ESPN ever again, because every other sports reporting agency is always correct and they were wrong on their pre-season Eastern Conference Final prediction. Tell me again who had Tampa Bay winning the East but losing to Chicago in the Finals last year? Or better yet, who had Calgary making the playoffs?

Yeah, thought so.

About Tampa nobody thought so, here you are right, i don't argue. About Calgary and make PO i read before season at hockeybuzz, if i'm not mistaken from Todd Cordell. That is all, i'm not very much attention to the Western Conference.
Well, i'm very glad JK and JD really hope and believe in the talent of Ryan Murray and believe if he is healthy, it's our biggest gain made in preseason. I'm very glad you think same. But i'm don't think so, i'm think that in the next season will be battle of Ryan Murray against injuries again. Knee, ankle, shoulder, etc.
Hope, i'm wrong. We will see.

 

[ndd17]

You don't remember the 66 games he played in 2013-14?

I remember those 66 games, but i also remember zero games in 12/13 and only 12 games in 14/15. Three years of Murray for Blue Jackets, 78 games of 212. The rest of absence due to injuries. Knee, ankle, shoulder. Closed circle.This is real injury prone in my opinion.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Injury-prone (adj.) - a term used to describe a player who either regularly suffers injuries where normal players would not, or who misses extended periods of time when afflicted with an injury that should not normally require that length of recovery time. A term regularly abused by people who derive patterns where there are none.

 

[cslebn]

About Tampa nobody thought so, here you are right, i don't argue. About Calgary and make PO i read before season at hockeybuzz, if i'm not mistaken from Todd Cordell. That is all, i'm not very much attention to the Western Conference.
Well, i'm very glad JK and JD really hope and believe in the talent of Ryan Murray and believe if he is healthy, it's our biggest gain made in preseason. I'm very glad you think same. But i'm don't think so, i'm think that in the next season will be battle of Ryan Murray against injuries again. Knee, ankle, shoulder, etc.
Hope, i'm wrong. We will see.

Actually a coworker of mine has a sheet I handed him in July 2014 as a challenge to pick the playoffs for 2015. It shows TBL-CBJ and Chi-Ana with Chi over TBL in the final.

He's been giving me crap for not going to Vegas (or laying down a bet while there) for a while now.

 

[blahblah]

Injury-prone (adj.) - a term used to describe a player who either regularly suffers injuries where normal players would not, or who misses extended periods of time when afflicted with an injury that should not normally require that length of recovery time. A term regularly abused by people who derive patterns where there are none.

And here I simplified it down to "Injured more than healthy over an extended period of time". I wouldn't exactly call him healthy prone.

 

[We Want Ten]

And here I simplified it down to "Injured more than healthy over an extended period of time". I wouldn't exactly call him healthy prone.

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/injury-prone

Sounds like Murray to me...

 

[Crede777]

And here I simplified it down to "Injured more than healthy over an extended period of time". I wouldn't exactly call him healthy prone.

He isn't prone towards anything. There isn't something about Ryan Murray that makes him more likely to get hurt than anyone else. He doesn't have repeated concussion issues or a bad joint. Maybe his knee will get like that some day, but it isn't like that right now. He isn't like Mr. Glass from Unbreakable where he gets hurt any more easily than someone else.

It's been bad luck, that's all. The injuries he's suffered could have happened to anyone.

 

[We Want Ten]

He isn't prone towards anything. There isn't something about Ryan Murray that makes him more likely to get hurt than anyone else. He doesn't have repeated concussion issues or a bad joint. Maybe his knee will get like that some day, but it isn't like that right now. He isn't like Mr. Glass from Unbreakable where he gets hurt any more easily than someone else.

It's been bad luck, that's all. The injuries he's suffered could have happened to anyone.

Eh, that's a lot of bad luck for one guy...

 

[Nanabijou]

I'm willing to chalk some of the issues Murray has had to bad luck. He's not there yet, but he's close to being labeled injury-prone. We'll see how the next couple of years go.

But, having recurring 'bad luck' kind of goes with being injury prone. To me, the definition of an injury-prone player was Pascal Leclaire. His injuries weren't confined to one spot - he had problems with his groin, ankle, knee, hip and face. He got hit by a freaking puck in the face and broke his cheek bone just after returning from a groin injury. He just seemed to attract injuries like a magnet. Each injury could be chalked up to 'well, that was just bad luck' or 'at least he injured a different body part this time, so it's not like its a chronic joint problem', but in the end, he just was always injured more than he was healthy.

I hope that's not the case for Murray but this will be a big year for him.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I'm willing to chalk some of the issues Murray has had to bad luck. He's not there yet, but he's close to being labeled injury-prone. We'll see how the next couple of years go.

But, having recurring 'bad luck' kind of goes with being injury prone. To me, the definition of an injury-prone player was Pascal Leclaire. His injuries weren't confined to one spot - he had problems with his groin, ankle, knee, hip and face. He got hit by a freaking puck in the face and broke his cheek bone just after returning from a groin injury. He just seemed to attract injuries like a magnet. Each injury could be chalked up to 'well, that was just bad luck' or 'at least he injured a different body part this time, so it's not like its a chronic joint problem', but in the end, he just was always injured more than he was healthy.

I hope that's not the case for Murray but this will be a big year for him.

Leclaire's were all part of the same kinetic chain though. It's no different than a pitcher who suffers a sore shoulder and keeps pitching; without realizing it, he's changed his delivery slightly and is putting unnatural strain on his back and his elbow. Now, to stay in the lineup, he's alleviating that pain by changing his delivery again and affecting his wrist. in Leclaire's case, it was groin leading to hip leading to knee to ankle, or vice versa.

That's not how it's been with Murray. The shoulder has nothing to do with the knee, and the knee had nothing to do with the ankle (since that came from getting his leg rolled up).

Leclaire's injury history even when he was drafted was a significant concern. Klesla seemed to attract injuries and always seemed to be slow coming back from them. Murray hasn't had an injury yet where the recovery time has been far outside of the norm.

If nothing else, I can always dig up my homage to Paul Harvey on Rocket Richard as well.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I take solace in the fact that you are totally sarcastic here.

Hey, I don't tell you how to prepare for the season.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=120014

Murray has played in 147 out of a possible 306 regular season games over the past 4 seasons. That's 48%. There have been numerous different injuries which have caused him to miss 52% of his games.

It's safe to say that he's not injury averse.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Now, You guys(**disclaimer**not everyone, just the people that feel this way**disclaimer**) have such issues with the contract Buff hasn't even gotten yet and the 1 Greene has now, and yet you didn't have a problem with Wiz and Umberger finishing out their contracts here? That was a question. I haven't made my excel sheet yet on all you're personal feelings. What seems to be missing out of all this is, JUST HOW GOOD OF HOCKEY PLAYERS BUFF AND GREENE ARE RIGHT NOW. And they both play a game that will not deteriorate quickly. Buff's toughness, size and shot isn't going away anytime soon. If anything, at this point, is when he will (COULD) start to clean up his defensive game, which is practically the only thing holding back Buff from being a LEGIT top 10 d man in the league. Greene plays the game like many other "smooth" defenseman that can easily play well into their late 30's. Like Buff being able to get smarter defensively now as he gets older, Greene isn't going to lose his "smart's", which is essentially his "best" overall quality. Bottom line is that (IMO) there are years (4+ easy) to go before either 1 of these guys could even possibly be a detriment to a team the way that most/some/whatever of you have been "ok" with on our team very recently.

No, certainly Byfuglien has never been accused of floating and putting in lackluster defensive efforts (even considering his limitations in his own end). He's also 30 years old and has spent the better part of his career carrying around extra weight, which doesn't bode well for either his longevity or his likelihood to suddenly become a defensive stalwart.

And on the flip side, Greene produces no offense.

We are also still 1 of the top 5 or so youngest teams in the league. I do that trade for Greene because I don't think he is on his "tail end" of his career, at all. Even though I prolly would trade Wennberg for Buff before the yr for "just" a year of him, I would only do the trade at the deadline if we had talks with Buff or if he was already signed. I don't know what to tell you, if you wouldn't trade Wennberg for a signed Buff around 6 mil a year. There probably isn't anything I can tell you. If any of you ever come through mid Michigan for vacation, or TC prospect camp, or an OHL game later in the year, get ahold of me on here. I'd love to meet up for a drop in/shinny and teach a few things (if you can skate).

If I were a GM, I'd hope like hell that a team in possession of a guy like Wennberg hired you to make decisions. A 32-year-old defenseman like Greene somehow isn't in decline and likely to continue declining, and somehow Wennberg isn't likely to improve either.

 

[major major]

He isn't prone towards anything.

Do we know he'll continue to have injury problems for the rest of his career? No. Do we know that he won't? No. By my count he's had a major season ruining injury about once every 70-80 games. If that sounds like a small sample size, well like I said, we don't know. So far he's been injured, so much so that he hasn't even played enough games to give us a sample.

It's been bad luck, that's all. The injuries he's suffered could have happened to anyone.

I play pick-up and I've noticed that what constitutes an injury risk for some is not risky at all for others. Having someone fall on your leg is scary for some players, for others its not a thing they even notice.

*Disclaimer for those with reading difficulties: I'm not saying he will continue to be injury prone. I'm saying he has been and he might continue to be.

 

[blahblah]

Geez. Murray is not healthy until he is. It's a concern. Arguing about if he fits some definition of "injury prone" is fairly silly.

In two seasons, he hasn't played half the game plus he was coming off a major injury going into his first pro season. We all know he needs to build a history of health.

Also trying to defend something like Wennberg for Greene is indefensible. Horrible idea as is Buff for Wennberg. Partly because we've traded AA and let Letestu go already so our center depth isn't quite there anymore. Partly because at the tail end of the season Wennberg showed amazing chemistry with Hartnell (and the departed Dano). That was a lot of pain during the season to get to the point where he was a solid contributor. He easily has top six upside.

We've got some pretty good d in our system and we are building towards something good. We can afford to be patient. Try and get a stop gap if you feel you must and don't spend what are considered prime assets to get them. We aren't an established playoff team yet. We're not looking for that small piece to win the Cup. These talks are giving me a huge migraine.

 

[Viqsi]

Geez. Murray is not healthy until he is. It's a concern. Arguing about if he fits some definition of "injury prone" is fairly silly.

The argument seems to be less about the semantics and more about whether or not Murray is likely to be injured again. "Injury prone", as a term, tends to imply future as well as past, and while past is indisputable, there's a legit debate about future. Thus, perpetual definition arguments.

 

[Mayor Bee]

If the powers-that-be didn't want pedantic know-it-alls hanging around, they shouldn't have let me register an account.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Every time that dude gets injured he ends up prone.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Every time that dude gets injured he ends up prone.

 

[blahblah]

The argument seems to be less about the semantics and more about whether or not Murray is likely to be injured again. "Injury prone", as a term, tends to imply future as well as past, and while past is indisputable, there's a legit debate about future. Thus, perpetual definition arguments.

It is clearly partly about semantics. I witnessed the MB dictionary earlier.

Let's be realistic; of course he's going to be injured again. lol, doh

That isn't the question. It's how often and the duration. We've also had people (well person) seriously put forth retirement ideas.

I've watched this discussion go on and on. I've seen those saying he's injury prone, those that don't. Those that try and break out definitions. Of course we've went into semantics. I've got a crazy idea - wait a freaking month and watch him this season.

Those Wennberg trade talks are giving me some serious heartburn.

 

[We Want Ten]

It is clearly partly about semantics. I witnessed the MB dictionary earlier.

Let's be realistic; of course he's going to be injured again. lol, doh

That isn't the question. It's how often and the duration. We've also had people (well person) seriously put forth retirement ideas.

I've watched this discussion go on and on. I've seen those saying he's injury prone, those that don't. Those that try and break out definitions. Of course we've went into semantics. I've got a crazy idea - wait a freaking month and watch him this season.

Those Wennberg trade talks are giving me some serious heartburn.

But in a month we will be arguing about something else and have forgotten all about thi... Ohhh.

 

[NotWendell]

About Tampa nobody thought so, here you are right, i don't argue. About Calgary and make PO i read before season at hockeybuzz, if i'm not mistaken from Todd Cordell. That is all, i'm not very much attention to the Western Conference.
Well, i'm very glad JK and JD really hope and believe in the talent of Ryan Murray and believe if he is healthy, it's our biggest gain made in preseason. I'm very glad you think same. But i'm don't think so, i'm think that in the next season will be battle of Ryan Murray against injuries again. Knee, ankle, shoulder, etc.
Hope, i'm wrong. We will see.

Candidly, based on recent history, that's the safest position to take. We all hope that position is wrong.

 

[SuperGenius]

I remember those 66 games, but i also remember zero games in 12/13 and only 12 games in 14/15. Three years of Murray for Blue Jackets, 78 games of 212. The rest of absence due to injuries. Knee, ankle, shoulder. Closed circle.This is real injury prone in my opinion.

He was still with Everett in 2012-13. He had the shoulder injury, but was not going to play here anyway. Not sure why that counts against him or as a 'year' with the CBJ.