Stockton Heat relocation

[AngloHab]

Out of curiosity just thinking of all the possibilities - if the Heat left town how feasible or rather likely would it be that another team replace them at ECHL level?

Having just looked it up the Sharks dont appear to have an ECHL affiliate right now so would that fill a void for their organization? Or is having an ECHL team uneccessary?

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Out of curiosity just thinking of all the possibilities - if the Heat left town how feasible or rather likely would it be that another team replace them at ECHL level?

Having just looked it up the Sharks dont appear to have an ECHL affiliate right now so would that fill a void for their organization? Or is having an ECHL team uneccessary?

Unlikely Stockton would get a ECHL team. They'd be roughly 10 hours from their closest opponent. Travel costs would be a non-starter unless they get some nearby partners.

And the Sharks don't give two craps about their affiliation. They're bankrolling their AHL affiliate and regularly have turnstile counts of under 1,000 instead of letting it nurture somewhere else nearby. If they can't care about their AHL affiliate, no chance they'd grab the chance for a ECHL affiliate.

 

[AngloHab]

Unlikely Stockton would get a ECHL team. They'd be roughly 10 hours from their closest opponent. Travel costs would be a non-starter unless they get some nearby partners.

And the Sharks don't give two craps about their affiliation. They're bankrolling their AHL affiliate and regularly have turnstile counts of under 1,000 instead of letting it nurture somewhere else nearby. If they can't care about their AHL affiliate, no chance they'd grab the chance for a ECHL affiliate.

Thank you for the comprehensive answer.

Good god I hope the Heat don't leave Stockton - being 45 minutes away from exciting, affordable hockey is great.

Was at the game last night and they tied it up with 4 secs left empty net then wound up losing in OT on the PP.....

Worth every penny and Perfect antidote to a ho hum work week.

 

[JMCx4]

... And the Sharks don't give two craps about their affiliation. They're bankrolling their AHL affiliate and regularly have turnstile counts of under 1,000 instead of letting it nurture somewhere else nearby. If they can't care about their AHL affiliate, no chance they'd grab the chance for a ECHL affiliate.

Or *MAYBE* their just waiting for the resurrection of the Fresno Falcons, because they have an old sweater or two they can sell to the next team owner ... NHL.com (August 16, 2006): San Jose Sharks Renew ECHL Affiliation With Fresno Falcons

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Thank you for the comprehensive answer.

Good god I hope the Heat don't leave Stockton - being 45 minutes away from exciting, affordable hockey is great.

Was at the game last night and they tied it up with 4 secs left empty net then wound up losing in OT on the PP.....

Worth every penny and Perfect antidote to a ho hum work week.

Calgary should really get someone who knows the market in Stockton to operate the business side of team like Utica and Robert Esche while they handle all player development/hockey operations. The thunder era showed it can be a really good market

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Or *MAYBE* their just waiting for the resurrection of the Fresno Falcons, because they have an old sweater or two they can sell to the next team owner ... NHL.com (August 16, 2006): San Jose Sharks Renew ECHL Affiliation With Fresno Falcons

I hope not, I actually liked the NAHL Monsters branding more than the Falcons getup. And while I have a darker sense of humor, I think the Fresno Opioids has a certain ring to it. The Papaver somniferums doesn't roll off the tongue. The pieces are there, I just need to put them together.

 

[PCSPounder]

One would like to think that the mess the old Falcons left has blown over, that it's time for new ownership and sponsorship to make an approach for something more than WSHL. Furthermore, reduction of capacity at Selland while creating space for, if not luxury suites, some sort of upscale stuff might actually make more money in the E.

But, as with every other question about making the ECHL work, who's the owner? That's question #1.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

One would like to think that the mess the old Falcons left has blown over, that it's time for new ownership and sponsorship to make an approach for something more than WSHL. Furthermore, reduction of capacity at Selland while creating space for, if not luxury suites, some sort of upscale stuff might actually make more money in the E.

But, as with every other question about making the ECHL work, who's the owner? That's question #1.

Maybe Fresno would work for a future Vancouver AHL location. A echl team wouldn’t be viable if there was just one team in the state.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

One would like to think that the mess the old Falcons left has blown over, that it's time for new ownership and sponsorship to make an approach for something more than WSHL. Furthermore, reduction of capacity at Selland while creating space for, if not luxury suites, some sort of upscale stuff might actually make more money in the E.

But, as with every other question about making the ECHL work, who's the owner? That's question #1.

Source: https://www.fresnobee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/marek-warszawski/article200316374.html

Fresno was reportedly a target for Vegas if they were going to buy and relocate an AHL franchise. However, apparently the cost of ice maintenance at Selland is $1,500 per day and the lease was 3 times more expensive than what Stockton has as a comparable. If someone local with money was going to step up, it would have happened already. If it was to be the ECHL, it would likely still have to be the parent team like the other teams in the AHL Pacific Division.

Fresno is the type of market that would need a lot of work to get started, but would be an excellent market once everything is put together. They regularly averaged north of 5,000 per season in the WCHL/ECHL days, and even was hitting 3500 with the NAHL Monsters, although with their travel that still wasn't enough. The question is, like you said, what ownership is willing to put themselves up in order to get the train moving.

Maybe Fresno would work for a future Vancouver AHL location. A echl team wouldn’t be viable if there was just one team in the state.

If Vancouver was to move their team to the West Coast, they'd likely go to British Columbia. Canuck's owner Francisco Aquilini was looking at Abbotsford heavily with Chilliwack as a backup before he gave Esche the go ahead to sign the six year extension with Utica. California was never mentioned as a possibility. Abbotsford was shot down with the quote being “In Abbotsford, there were a lot of complaints because of the travel. The costs were higher, and ticket prices were not very high, so there are financial reasons.” (source: The (Underwhelming) Pros And (Considerable) Cons Of Moving The Utica Comets To Abbotsford). It sounds like the Canucks will never willingly leave Utica and Utica certainly will never willingly leave them, they might have the best prospect development situation in the AHL.

 

[JMCx4]

... And while I have a darker sense of humor, I think the Fresno Opioids has a certain ring to it. The Papaver somniferums doesn't roll off the tongue. The pieces are there, I just need to put them together.

Maybe they could name the team the Fresno Oz, and have Dorothy & her pals featured in the logo snoozing in the field outside of the Emerald City. The team owners would have to work a deal with Warner Brothers Studios for the rights, but they would be keeping it all in-state.

 

[LuckyDay]

I disagree. The success of the Stockton Thunder would have any ownership group drooling to get a team here, if they can keep travel costs down - especially if they can get back more teams in the region. For ownership, the Spanos family is not likely except if one of the heirs wanted a pet project. The Podesto family maybe? The ownership group that controlled the arena are a bunch of crooks that took the County for $500k so they're out.

 

[Timjohnson]

I disagree. The success of the Stockton Thunder would have any ownership group drooling to get a team here, if they can keep travel costs down - especially if they can get back more teams in the region. For ownership, the Spanos family is not likely except if one of the heirs wanted a pet project. The Podesto family maybe? The ownership group that controlled the arena are a bunch of crooks that took the County for $500k so they're out.

I don't agree with this statement. The Stockton market hasn't been successful for a while - the building hasn't had any updates, the fans have disappeared, and the final nail in the coffin was when Brian Petrovek came to town. The building needs major upgrades and bring back the Thunder name and logo, regardless of league, and someone other than Petrovek, and maybe there is a chance for hockey again in Stockton.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I don't agree with this statement. The Stockton market hasn't been successful for a while - the building hasn't had any updates, the fans have disappeared, and the final nail in the coffin was when Brian Petrovek came to town. The building needs major upgrades and bring back the Thunder name and logo, regardless of league, and someone other than Petrovek, and maybe there is a chance for hockey again in Stockton.

if the Heat and Flames leave, Tim, Stockton Arena might as well be imploded as well as the practice facility because no ownership group will ever come again, that's not Petrovek, that's no entertainment option then, because Sacramento could pull the Kings out anytime they wanted to....Stockton will be another Footnote in hockey or sports history, look at what Manchester has gone through the last year plus, it won't be a 2 year + and wait mode..... you don't realize that's Calgary, and has been their MO since 2001

 

[PCSPounder]

blah blah blah blah because Sacramento could pull the Kings out anytime they wanted to blah blah blah

Using this as impetus for tearing down a relatively new arena is akin to trying to reach towards Mars with a 2-foot long toy stick shark.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Using this as impetus for tearing down a relatively new arena is akin to trying to reach towards Mars with a 2-foot long toy stick shark.

the issue is the on the city, not the Kings or the Heat/Flames for letting the practice facility fall below specifications, nor is blaming the Heat for that which they inherited the contract/lease when swapping Adirondack and the Heat, just as it was no one's fault that Manchester lost their franchise because of inept ownership, that wasn't AEG.....

NOW, THAT is the core issue facing that market, you didn't hear one complaint when Springfield went through city reorganization and WHO paid for the renovations to Mass Mutual Center? the entire commonwealth of MASSACHUSETTS

2) the arena is getting a new GM as well as the city is getting a new manager

 

[PCSPounder]

No, the issue is that California has called out EVERY team for trying to use public funds for this stuff, and basically spread the word elsewhere.

If the Heat leave, it's because they're trying to push costs on, eh, as many other people as they can.

This is a way of saying there's not a lot of rinks in the big valley.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

No, the issue is that California has called out EVERY team for trying to use public funds for this stuff, and basically spread the word elsewhere.

If the Heat leave, it's because they're trying to push costs on, eh, as many other people as they can.

This is a way of saying there's not a lot of rinks in the big valley.

disagree, here's why:

why is the practice arena in such a state of disarray that if the Heat land there, the League can veto that even as a temporary option since there has to be a minimum specification standard.... something that was brought up over Loveland's arena, bringing that facility up to league standards in addition to acquiring the franchise from the League

 

[Henderson Finest]

disagree, here's why:

why is the practice arena in such a state of disarray that if the Heat land there, the League can veto that even as a temporary option since there has to be a minimum specification standard.... something that was brought up over Loveland's arena, bringing that facility up to league standards in addition to acquiring the franchise from the League

The City of Stockton has committed $2.2M in renovations for Oak Park Ice Arena over the next 12 months. From what I hear, the Flames/Heat want a small say in how that money is spent. That is one issue. The next has to deal with Stockton Arena and the improvements required there. There has been no major improvements for the 15 years it has been in service. Items on that fix-it list include better lighting (does not meet current AHL requirements), a better sound system, wi-fi improvements, and a new Jumbotron, along with more minor improvements needed.

 

[AngloHab]

Theres a massive problem with homelessness in California and they talking about arena improvements to a perfectly good facility that is only 15 years old?

I swear to god professional sports and the people that run them are so out of touch with reality.

You cant get a hot dog and a beer at Stockton in the intermission and get back to your seat in time for the next period (in an arena that is at best 1/3 full) and they talk about dropping money on uneccessary upgrades.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The City of Stockton has committed $2.2M in renovations for Oak Park Ice Arena over the next 12 months. From what I hear, the Flames/Heat want a small say in how that money is spent. That is one issue. The next has to deal with Stockton Arena and the improvements required there. There has been no major improvements for the 15 years it has been in service. Items on that fix-it list include better lighting (does not meet current AHL requirements), a better sound system, wi-fi improvements, and a new Jumbotron, along with more minor improvements needed.

hope both go through.... as to those who are against the Heat and the Flames, they are working together to keep the franchise there, because it is very similar to Springfield, what the city of Stockton has gone through.....

it'll benefit the Kings as well, long-term since they are backing these discussions

 

[AngloHab]

Its not an issue of being "against the flames or heat" I pay my money to watch them and I am happy to continue to do so.

Ideologically I have a huge problem with California taxpayers being asked to subsidize a Canadian/Albertan business. There are much better uses for that money.

Its not like the average kid in northern california can afford to play hockey so you cant really argue that its a community asset - its an entertainment option no different than a movie theater. You think movie theaters should have new screens installed paid for by the city?

 

[AngloHab]

And by Canadian/Alberta business I meant businessmen that have no roots and no emotional ties to this region.

What does it matter to a Calgarian billionaire where his AHL affiliate is based? If the Flames pulled the Heat out of Stockton none of the flames ownership group are going to lose sleep over it.

 

[AngloHab]

Last point - btw the team is horrendously marketed. In fact its not marketed at all from what I can tell. Doesnt advertise and has no presence whatsoever in Sacramento or surrounds.

Theres really no way the average casual sports fan even know it exists.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

And by Canadian/Alberta business I meant businessmen that have no roots and no emotional ties to this region.

What does it matter to a Calgarian billionaire where his AHL affiliate is based? If the Flames pulled the Heat out of Stockton none of the flames ownership group are going to lose sleep over it.

and the following markets say hello: Saint John, Lowell, Omaha, Quad City and Abbotsford, AngloHab, the next city is rebuking any discussions over acquiring the Heat franchise....

do you want the AHL to terminate the existing franchise, because that's the direction your posts are trending, just as the AHL threatened the Oilers over the current Condors franchise....

 

[Coach Nate]

Calgary sells Stockton to Vegas which relocates to Henderson

Calgary affiliates with Chicago.

Colorado moves to Central once Palm Springs activates.

We all move on with our lives.