Stockton Heat relocation

[wildcat48]

No, Hutch... You have to be accountable for yourself. Be responsible for your own behavior.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

No, Hutch... You have to be accountable for yourself. Be responsible for your own behavior.

I'M DEFENDING Portland, you're NOWHERE TO BE FOUND

 

[PCSPounder]

Is there an ownership group lurking around Stockton that would buy in without the Calgary tie?

Is there a chance at rejoining the ECHL if all else goes sideways (or, in Delta parlance, flows towards Vallejo)?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Is there an ownership group lurking around Stockton that would buy in without the Calgary tie?

Is there a chance at rejoining the ECHL if all else goes sideways (or, in Delta parlance, flows towards Vallejo)?

depends on if it's CGY or the Heat that did the negotiation in Stockton, and would CGY be asked to negotiate an extension..... much like 2014/15 in Portland where Portland had to negotiate a lease on its own and Arizona couldn't step in even if they wanted to.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!

Smaller "Core City" Central Arenas: 3 (Des Moines, Fort Wayne, Stockton)
Suburban Smaller-Than-Central-City primarily hockey arenas: 7 (Southaven/Memphis, Ontario, Cedar Park, Frisco, Hoffman Estates, Hempstead, Missisauga)
Expo Center/Sort-of-Former-Arenas in a Complex Format: 5 (Oklahoma City, Portland ME, Walker/Grand Rapids, Lakeland, Greensboro)
Small City Established Arenas (within reason): 3 (Prescott, Canton, Westchester)
PURPOSE-BUILT FOR THEIR TEAMS: 7 (Sioux Falls, Santa Cruz, Edinburg, Oshkosh, Washington, College Park, Wilmington)
Small College Arenas: 1 (Salt Lake)
Practice Facility: 1 (El Segundo)

Thanks for clearing that up i thought the g league was moving away from AHL/ECHL sized arenas in smaller city's when i wrote it on Tuesday.

 

[Cacciaguida]

What does any of that have to do with either of those arenas not having ice plants?

if you can't afford an ice plant you can't afford an AHL club.

I would love to see Sacramento and Oakland (Seals) to get hockey.

 

[PCSPounder]

Thanks for clearing that up i thought the g league was moving away from AHL/ECHL sized arenas in smaller city's when i wrote it on Tuesday.

When you look at the openings of the purpose-built arenas, arguably a quarter of the teams have moved away from hockey arenas.

Here in the big Portland, the discussion of our own G-League team has been muted... but in the last couple weeks, Neil Olshey with the Blazers spoke up about the possibility of spinning up a team... relatively locally. Given there were rumors last year they’d partner with Langley Events Centre in BC, this is definitely a change. Now the question is where.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

well, the future of the Heat could be settled by Friday, as there is scheduled to be a potential announcement as to the future direction, no exact word as to which direction this will go, but Petrovek is expected to be informing the fanbase/press during or prior to the game then.... nothing public was released to their fanbase, yet... very similiar MO to how Portland vs. the County Trustee negotiations were done behind closed doors and not privy to open discussion.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Stockton Record now reporting a year to year lease, keeping the team through next season, the current 5 year deal, similiar to the Abbotsford out will be allowed to expire pending further negotiation

 

[Goldenshark]

Every sport says this then they go elsewhere. MLS just used them as leverage over the past couple years.

Always a bridesmaid and never a bride.

Well I guess they’re not a bridesmaid anymore:
Major League Soccer awards expansion team to Sacramento

 

[Goldenshark]

I would love to see Sacramento and Oakland (Seals) to get hockey.

So would I, in fact I would bet the biggest reason the Heat are not doing as well as the Thunder is because the fan base is split. The Thunder weren’t competing against the Sharks affiliate in the same NorCal market. At the time they were around they were the only ECHL team in NorCal.

When I was living in the Sac area, the only Heat games I ever went to were when the Barracuda was there playing them on the road. I could care less about the Flames or their affiliates. Stockton or Sac should’ve been the Barracuda’s home.

Likewise the Barracuda are hardly selling tickets at home because they’re in the exact same city and arena as the Sharks. I’m not going to travel an hour to SJ each way and lose half a tank a gas at $4-5/gallon just to see the JV team, get real.

 

[Timjohnson]

My guess is the Heat will take a one year extension to give them time to find another city to move the franchise. The city of Stockton isn't going to invest the money it takes to keep the franchise based upon the upgrades needed in the article. They have the baby Kings now, and I could even see the Barracuda moving there at some point with the same model as the basketball team, i.e, practicing and being based in one city but busing in for the games.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

My guess is the Heat will take a one year extension to give them time to find another city to move the franchise. The city of Stockton isn't going to invest the money it takes to keep the franchise based upon the upgrades needed in the article. They have the baby Kings now, and I could even see the Barracuda moving there at some point with the same model as the basketball team, i.e, practicing and being based in one city but busing in for the games.

San Jose has no intention of leaving SAP Center for both franchises, based off what has transpired there since 2014/15, the point is Stockton has been the 7th or 8th market the franchise or the Flames have gone through..... imho, the AHL has to step in here and deliver an ultimatum, much how Edmonton was threatened with revocation of the franchise if they would pick a market and stay there

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

According to the Stockton Record (twitter Recordnet)

Heat fans are cautiously optimistic that this can easily be resolved, but it's a work in progress, apparently, there's been some sentiment from Heat fans against Petrovek, something Portland fans know all too well, that those communication lines can be closed off, but it's not the 1st time Petrovek has pulled this distraction presser within a game night.....

 

[Henderson Finest]

Petrovic IS the problem right now. No marketing, hardly any advertising, nothing north or south of Stockton. If I were running the Heat, I would be doing radio ticket giveaways, meet and greet with players, offering free tickets to kids 10 and under, anything to put butts in seats. He has ZERO vision.
#firepetrovic

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Petrovic IS the problem right now. No marketing, hardly any advertising, nothing north or south of Stockton. If I were running the Heat, I would be doing radio ticket giveaways, meet and greet with players, offering free tickets to kids 10 and under, anything to put butts in seats. He has ZERO vision.
#firepetrovic

we dealt with him, SF but again, it's the Flames call as to why he's there in Stockton....you can kinda blame the AHL a bit since it's them who vetted him and partly the reason why you don't or shouldn't ask the league for assistance on ownership or personnel matters within a franchise...


Spectra is that way too, btw, with our franchise, there was very little coverage media-wise to bring former fans back in even though it's a different league, the business side kills the "buzz" when you "invest" in a franchise.... I mean no terrestrial radio coverage, for Mixlr, 2 Portland stations out of 3 ignore or rarely cover the existing franchise as if it doesn't exist, now compared to 1993, when Portland survived the loss of what we thought was the original franchise, that you ended up inheriting there there was significant buzz throughout the state almost to an annoying level of support and then flash forward to 2015, and all you heard was a silence and then social media pages were shut off, not just silenced because of the off-season... no warning that it was done, and even a fan wanted to renew season tickets and pick up some merchandise he had ordered and that was stopped halfway through the transaction when he was informed there was no more franchise....

If Ed Snider had ever known what your franchise has gone through , no matter where it has traveled..... he certainly wouldn't be hiring someone like Petrovek to oversee his interests, that's for certain..... all franchises are fighting that issue of how can we draw fans in to see the product.... can it be self-sustainable in this ever changing world where there are so many entertainment options.....

Why should any fan support something knowing this is the risk that can and does happen, it may not be at the NHL Level yet, but even they are dealing with it in some form there as well.

 

[wildcat48]

Petrovic IS the problem right now. No marketing, hardly any advertising, nothing north or south of Stockton. If I were running the Heat, I would be doing radio ticket giveaways, meet and greet with players, offering free tickets to kids 10 and under, anything to put butts in seats. He has ZERO vision.
#firepetrovic

It's not that he doesn't have any vision... He's cheap and crooked. He'd stab you in the back while paying you a compliment.

 

[Timjohnson]

I have tried talking to Petrovic a few times and he is a miserable person that could care less about anything other than his own agenda. Why Calgary continues to employee him in Stockton is unbelievable considering how he has ran that franchise into the ground by all accounts that I see and hear about from season pass holders.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I have tried talking to Petrovic a few times and he is a miserable person that could care less about anything other than his own agenda. Why Calgary continues to employee him in Stockton is unbelievable considering how he has ran that franchise into the ground by all accounts that I see and hear about from season pass holders.

then why does Calgary constantly burn cities, over and over, and none of that has anything to do with Stockton, 5 markets in the last 16 years, and Stockton is potentially the 6th, no city is going to engage the Flames if they literally burn this market, Calgary tried the 50/50 partnership and moved on from Saint John, Omaha, and Quad City, even displacing an established franchise, and then Abbotsford? Isn't the exact same contract the Heat rejected to be proposed in Stockton the same contract they rejected in Abbotsford? Calgary hired the current GM from where, and that's who Flames fans should be incensed at for hiring Petrovek, and Brian Burke will always be blamed for the Pacific Division expansion since he was the one who started all of that......

the issue in Stockton has nothing to do with Petrovek, the issue is why are the Heat now complaining about the lease when it was negotiated under the Thunder ownership, something Calgary no longer deals with, why are the Flames arrogance in forcing the Thunder to Adirondack, too bad, the practice arena is in such a shambles that that's an issue, and that's directly from the Heat's fanbase..... you never heard anything about a practice arena being an issue in Portland, even when the main arena was under renovation.

you want to blame someone, start by blasting Brad Treliving, FOR NEPOTISM.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

ok:

take this and this coming from the Heat fanbase and the Flames organization: Heat fanbase has been very engaged with the organization over issues that may have been why the organization seems to be very out of touch, after Petrovek pulled the presser distraction over one of their 3 game set against Bakersfield:

now, since then, the Heat fanbase has largely been very positive in getting these issues addressed and rectified(the question I posed to them is, has Petrovek changed or learned anything since his fallout with Ron Cain here, and so far it's very positive, that the temporary bridge lease can indeed be accomplished, and the goal of a long standing agreement will be accomplished much like what's been done in Providence's affiliation extension, and the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton flap with Luzerne County, AS WELL as the Newfoundland lease extension up in St. John's, that has been bones of contention at times as can a 10 year PDC work successfully or not...... Calgary, from what I've heard, MAY control much of what Stockton can or cannot do, but Petrovek seemed enthusiastic and engaged and as informative as to what has to happen.... if it goes according to plan, they likely will try 2 bridge-type deals, and the Flames seem to have finally found a affiliate city they like.... overall, it'll be a 20 year commitment to the city of Stockton. I did ask why this couldn't have been rectified if the Thunder was the organization that originally brokered the contract, so this could last until 2034-35

 

[wildcat48]

I have tried talking to Petrovic a few times and he is a miserable person that could care less about anything other than his own agenda. Why Calgary continues to employee him in Stockton is unbelievable considering how he has ran that franchise into the ground by all accounts that I see and hear about from season pass holders.

That's Petro… He works for Calgary because he's best buds with Brad Treliving and he fits the Calgary model of being cheap.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

That's Petro… He works for Calgary because he's best buds with Brad Treliving and he fits the Calgary model of being cheap.

if that's the case, how come Calgary hasn't moved the affiliation, ASAP.......AND it is Petrovek, not the Flames who are in discussions with the City..... WHO gets the blame for the AHL being sold to Springfield in 2015, AFTER Arizona said no, we're not interfering in the 57.5% Lease extension in 2013/14, and Petrovek had already been fired

why are they talking a 20 year PDC, then, is that an organization being cheap, where's Brad Treliving then, Calgary has no input in the lease negotiation, otherwise that would've been stated, not the Heat

 

[Timjohnson]

ok:

take this and this coming from the Heat fanbase and the Flames organization: Heat fanbase has been very engaged with the organization over issues that may have been why the organization seems to be very out of touch, after Petrovek pulled the presser distraction over one of their 3 game set against Bakersfield:

now, since then, the Heat fanbase has largely been very positive in getting these issues addressed and rectified(the question I posed to them is, has Petrovek changed or learned anything since his fallout with Ron Cain here, and so far it's very positive, that the temporary bridge lease can indeed be accomplished, and the goal of a long standing agreement will be accomplished much like what's been done in Providence's affiliation extension, and the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton flap with Luzerne County, AS WELL as the Newfoundland lease extension up in St. John's, that has been bones of contention at times as can a 10 year PDC work successfully or not...... Calgary, from what I've heard, MAY control much of what Stockton can or cannot do, but Petrovek seemed enthusiastic and engaged and as informative as to what has to happen.... if it goes according to plan, they likely will try 2 bridge-type deals, and the Flames seem to have finally found a affiliate city they like.... overall, it'll be a 20 year commitment to the city of Stockton. I did ask why this couldn't have been rectified if the Thunder was the organization that originally brokered the contract, so this could last until 2034-35

If you think that Calgary will sign a 20 year extension to stay in Stockton, you are nuts. Maybe they sign a 5-year with a bunch of 5-year extensions that could be exercised, and the contract would certainly be breakable at any point if certain conditions aren't met. But no way it's just a straight 20-year deal. That won't happen in any city.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

If you think that Calgary will sign a 20 year extension to stay in Stockton, you are nuts. Maybe they sign a 5-year with a bunch of 5-year extensions that could be exercised, and the contract would certainly be breakable at any point if certain conditions aren't met. But no way it's just a straight 20-year deal. That won't happen in any city.

and if you think Calgary is relocating again, for the 6th time in the last 16 years, what city are they going to, knowing the history of the way the Flames operate the franchise, I have a suspicion that the AHL has a hand in this just as the way a) the League is operated and b) THE precedent set by the Oilers, whether to operate a franchise or face the loss of it, ie termination, WHICH is why OKC was the option for the 5 years there, before 2014/15, why did the 2nd 5 year option not been exercised if the reports are accurate that Stockton inherited the contract originally signed by the Thunder as has been reported, wouldn't that have been rectified since 2014/15, WHY are they claiming that needs to be done, and the city is in agreement of the 1 yr bridge lease, pending a longer-term extension.... this isn't like an affiliation extension, but they are hand in hand and treated identically, under the rules set forth by the AHL, no affiliation, no franchise, no lease, no franchise.... we said that a ten year lease or affiliation typically doesn't work, when in fact it's the opposite, why did Providence recently extend their PDC for ten years to 2029, EVEN THOUGH, logistically, THEIR ownership is independent of the affiliation, AND IT IS RUN, MUCH the same way that if there was no local ties, Boston controls how the franchise operates, much as Calgary does in Stockton, wouldn't you think that Boston should buy the affiliate outright, because it's operated that way.

 

[Henderson Finest]

The Heat signed a 5 year lease when the Heat moved in. Unless the Thunder signed a lease prior to 2015 when the Heat came to town, there is no way the current 5 year lease was inherited by the Heat. The Heat original lease agreement was a 5-year lease (which ends after this season) with an additional 5-year extension, which was not exercised. Now that they did not exercise their extension, they are negotiating a year by year extension.

Rumor has it that the Flames will sign the one year and move after that to a new arena in Colorado Springs, which is in current construction and won't be ready until the 2021 season.