Stockton Heat relocation

[Henderson Finest]

Some of the issues are with the arena. The sound system is junk. You can hardly understand any announcement that is made. Concessions just increased again this year. Some of the vendors have pulled out. The arena is the only one with only 1 AHL TV feed, which is used by the visiting team (some sort of AHL rule?). The issue is that the City wants the Flames to pony up 100% of the money for these updates and the Flames are saying there should be a split.

But beyond those issues with the arena, the staff just seems to not want to be there. In the past 12 months, they have lost (or forced out) their long-time play-by-play announcer, 4 sales people in charge of group, season ticket holders, and new accounts. Their merchandise manager left at the end of last season. They hardly market the team. The shut down the Booster Club a few years back, thinking they could do it better in house. You see no Flames gear to sell. Hardly, if any, cross promotion with the big club. No recognition of past players (except fans wearing purchased game worn jerseys). It is like they are an independent entity.

I don't mean to air all this dirty laundry, but I care about this team and don't want them to leave. People forget that the Thunder led the ECHL in attendance 4 years in a row. It feels like this ownership doesn't care and is just waiting for the lease to expire to burn another city for the next few years, then move again and again and again.

 

[GrGriffins]

Some of the issues are with the arena. The sound system is junk. You can hardly understand any announcement that is made. Concessions just increased again this year. Some of the vendors have pulled out. The arena is the only one with only 1 AHL TV feed, which is used by the visiting team (some sort of AHL rule?). The issue is that the City wants the Flames to pony up 100% of the money for these updates and the Flames are saying there should be a split.

But beyond those issues with the arena, the staff just seems to not want to be there. In the past 12 months, they have lost (or forced out) their long-time play-by-play announcer, 4 sales people in charge of group, season ticket holders, and new accounts. Their merchandise manager left at the end of last season. They hardly market the team. The shut down the Booster Club a few years back, thinking they could do it better in house. You see no Flames gear to sell. Hardly, if any, cross promotion with the big club. No recognition of past players (except fans wearing purchased game worn jerseys). It is like they are an independent entity.

I take it that the Heat did not make any pocket and magnet schedules for this season, am I correct on that? I had a real nice lady that took care of me the past 4 seasons with the Heat and I found out she is no longer works for the Heat. Too bad. I hate to see that happen to a hockey organization.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Some of the issues are with the arena. The sound system is junk. You can hardly understand any announcement that is made. Concessions just increased again this year. Some of the vendors have pulled out. The arena is the only one with only 1 AHL TV feed, which is used by the visiting team (some sort of AHL rule?). The issue is that the City wants the Flames to pony up 100% of the money for these updates and the Flames are saying there should be a split.

But beyond those issues with the arena, the staff just seems to not want to be there. In the past 12 months, they have lost (or forced out) their long-time play-by-play announcer, 4 sales people in charge of group, season ticket holders, and new accounts. Their merchandise manager left at the end of last season. They hardly market the team. The shut down the Booster Club a few years back, thinking they could do it better in house. You see no Flames gear to sell. Hardly, if any, cross promotion with the big club. No recognition of past players (except fans wearing purchased game worn jerseys). It is like they are an independent entity.

I don't mean to air all this dirty laundry, but I care about this team and don't want them to leave. People forget that the Thunder led the ECHL in attendance 4 years in a row. It feels like this ownership doesn't care and is just waiting for the lease to expire to burn another city for the next few years, then move again and again and again.

That's really bad management even when the AHL sharks where in Worcester there where multiple occasions where they honored the legacy of the icecats and brought back former players and that was with ownership and a parent club that was located across the country.

 

[Henderson Finest]

I take it that the Heat did not make any pocket and magnet schedules for this season, am I correct on that? I had a real nice lady that took care of me the past 4 seasons with the Heat and I found out she is no longer works for the Heat. Too bad. I hate to see that happen to a hockey organization.

They did not hand out magnets. I think the pocket schedules are around: I will know more tonight when at the game.

 

[LadyStanley]

nope, you do realize that was a trade, Centrum, the same thing happened to the Sharks becoming the Barracuda, and the Reign/Monarchs flip.... both are owned and operated just like the Heat have have been since 1993 no matter what market they've been in....

Not the same.

The NHL Sharks have owned their AHL affiliate since 1993. (Lexington, KY to Cleveland, OH to Worcester, MA to San Jose, CA) There was no ECHL team to buy out/flip or move. (Now, a new ECHL franchise started in Worcester a couple of years after the AHL Sharks relocated.)

(The ECHL Bulls, 50+ miles from San Jose, declared bankruptcy years before.)

The Barracuda are not pulling in large crowds (compared to other AHL franchises), however, the organization believes in the "down the hall" development team model and will deal with the losses (and marketing it hard to try and improve the attendance; seems like almost every game has something to draw the fans in).

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Not the same.

The NHL Sharks have owned their AHL affiliate since 1993. (Lexington, KY to Cleveland, OH to Worcester, MA to San Jose, CA) There was no ECHL team to buy out/flip or move. (Now, a new ECHL franchise started in Worcester a couple of years after the AHL Sharks relocated.)

(The ECHL Bulls, 50+ miles from San Jose, declared bankruptcy years before.)

The Barracuda are not pulling in large crowds (compared to other AHL franchises), however, the organization believes in the "down the hall" development team model and will deal with the losses (and marketing it hard to try and improve the attendance; seems like almost every game has something to draw the fans in).

UH, LS:

SVSE actually bought the affiliate now known as the Barracuda in 2001, it was run by former members associated with USA Hockey, then the Gunds sold the Cleveland market when they elected to leave the sport, that's why the Sharks were told to vacate Cleveland in 2006 when the current ownership ie Dan Gilbert bought the rights to the now Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse, and why Cleveland has the Monsters under the same ownership as the Cavaliers, now the only way Gilbert could do that was buy the AHL Utah franchise, that began as Lake Erie, now rebranded as Cleveland.

Gilbert stated at the time in 2006, he didn't want another city's ownership in his arena, and that's why the Sharks bolted to Worcester, much the same way the Blues did with the Ice Cats, when the Journal Star in Peoria, started slandering the city of Worcester, to the degree that forced the city of Worcester to step in to keep at the time the Centrum/DUC Center viable as a venue (much the same way they attempted to lure the Red Claws to that market, which is going nowhere.... just because Worcester attracted the Pawtucket franchise after 5 decades there, where would the G-League team play, not at DCU, as to not disrupt the Railers schedule since it's within the same timeframe.

I do agree that the move to San Jose seems to be short-sighted, and what's the long-term prognosis, and what if SVSE Gets an owner who wants things his way, much like what they went through in 2006, yes,attendance, is one factor, but when an owner cannot sustain the losses, that's what you saw with Manchester going to private ownership when they were not entirely under AEG Operations, it was widely known that's why that market now no longer has a franchise, and it happened here in Portland in 2015/16.... there was no warning that the franchise in Springfield now, no one was informed, not even Florida knew that that was happening or had already been done.

that's the danger of placing a franchise or multiple franchises under the same corporate banner, and even private ownership is in danger because they cannot sustain the losses that a corporate parent can.

that's the challenge facing all franchises, independent of what league it is, and the same with Newfoundland and that constant tug of war with their operation at Mile One Centre, over the last 18 months, now how long into that agreement will we hear of the same issues over leases, losses/profits, right now it's been settled, but that's always going to be in the back of all fans and the fanbases league-wide once you go through a dispute or read a dispute in progress between a franchise and its market and a county, same with the Penguins and WB/Scranton and Luzerne County, that looked like would end that market's involvement.

No hockey fan, imho, wants to have to deal with the realities of the business side of hockey, and it happens over and over, Fans cannot change the decisions made, even if we don't agree with it, what's the recourse to make sure it never occurs. I think the true hockey fan, and the casual fan, simply wants to support their franchise to the best they can, and enjoy the sport delivered by the players to the best of their abilities.

 

[rabinsurance]

Prove to me where Dan Gilbert ever said that he didn't want a team owned by someone else in his building. You can't because he never, ever said that. Stop lying and making up garbage. Keep your fantasies in your head and don't spill it out on the forum.

 

[210]

Please provide proof that Dan Gilbert said to the Sharks they had to "vacate Cleveland", or in any manner suggested they couldn't continue to play in that arena. Be specific.

As it usually is, your characterization of the events surrounding the Blues selling the IceCats and them moving is wildly inaccurate.

No one in Worcester has attempted to lure the Red Claws to the city. One city councilor asked about it, which generated a few news stories, and that was pretty much the end of it. In fact, I was on local radio about that time, and when asked if it was going to happen gave an emphatic "no" as my answer. (And, BTW, they could theoretically play at the DCU Center if they did come here. There are lots of hockey/basketball co-tenants in buildings and there are no issues in most of them.)

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Prove to me where Dan Gilbert ever said that he didn't want a team owned by someone else in his building. You can't because he never, ever said that. Stop lying and making up garbage. Keep your fantasies in your head and don't spill it out on the forum.

2006, rabin, why are the Monsters owned by the ownership of the Cavaliers, then, are you denying the fact that SVSE/SJSE was told their franchise wasn't coming back because as I recall corrrectly, Gilbert bought the real estate from the Gunds directly, he couldn't terminate the tenant before then, and at the time, Gilbert had no hockey tenant to replace the Sharks once it became public knowledge that transaction was going to force SVSE/SJSE To relocate, which is indeed what transpired, how is that fantasy, when it is FACT, you just choose not to accept it.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I went to several midweek Barons games their last season and there were literally a couple hundred in the stands. I have no idea whether they were asked/forced to leave, but it wouldn't surprise me as the concession revenues had to be next to nothing so the Barons may have been a money loser for the arena.

I have fond memories of a heckler who absolutely brutalized Jiri Hudler who was playing for Grand Rapids at that time

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Please provide proof that Dan Gilbert said to the Sharks they had to "vacate Cleveland", or in any manner suggested they couldn't continue to play in that arena. Be specific.

As it usually is, your characterization of the events surrounding the Blues selling the IceCats and them moving is wildly inaccurate.

No one in Worcester has attempted to lure the Red Claws to the city. One city councilor asked about it, which generated a few news stories, and that was pretty much the end of it. In fact, I was on local radio about that time, and when asked if it was going to happen gave an emphatic "no" as my answer. (And, BTW, they could theoretically play at the DCU Center if they did come here. There are lots of hockey/basketball co-tenants in buildings and there are no issues in most of them.)

NBA G-League teams mostly play in practice gyms and small college arenas.

 

[210]

NBA G-League teams mostly play in practice gyms and small college arenas

This part is generally true...

the league is about as important to the NBA as the FHL and SPHl are to the NHL.

This part is completely false.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

NBA G-League teams mostly play in practice gyms and small college arenas the league is about as important to the NBA as the FHL and SPHl are to the NHL.

Centrum:

the Expo is neither a practice gym nor a small college arena, besides, that's likely where a Worcester franchise would be forced to play in, because DCU simply doesn't have the dates available and the Railers are the primary tenant there

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Centrum:

the Expo is neither a practice gym nor a small college arena, besides, that's likely where a Worcester franchise would be forced to play in, because DCU simply doesn't have the dates available and the Railers are the primary tenant there

Worcester was never getting the red claws. I Am pretty sure a lot of the article’s where written with the purpose of trying to make Worcester look bad after offering the best deal to the pawsox.

 

[210]

Centrum:

the Expo is neither a practice gym nor a small college arena, besides, that's likely where a Worcester franchise would be forced to play in, because DCU simply doesn't have the dates available and the Railers are the primary tenant there

It took all of 1 minute to compare the Railers and Red Claws schedules for this season, and there are only six overlapping home dates...so fitting both team's schedules into the DCU Center wouldn't be an issue at all.

 

[Henderson Finest]

So back to the Heat: rumor is the City has offered a 1 year deal and the Heat/Flames have yet to sign it.

No magnetic schedules...no pocket schedules....

 

[LadyStanley]

From the Sharks media guide....

In 2002, the Gund brothers sold the team(s). SVSE (Silicon Valley Sports Entertainment) may have existed starting then, but in 2010, when Plattner became majority owner, the umbrella organization was named Sharks Sports & Entertainment (SSE). (IIRC circa 2010 they divested themselves of the lacrosse team, custom merchandise arm, etc., and focused on hockey and arena management.)


From various internet stories
Circa 2001, the Gund brothers purchased the AHL Kentucky Thoroughblades (and relocated them to Cleveland to play in their own arena). Ron DeGregorio seemed to be the (majority?) owner of the Thoroughblades.

(Don't know why I thought the organization owned the team from 1996 )


I recall that the AHL team moved to Massachusetts because it was in an area that would allow the team more practice time (vs travel), as there were like 6 teams within a couple of hours by bus from Worcester. (So most nights the guys could sleep in their own beds.)

 

[PCSPounder]

NBA G-League teams mostly play in practice gyms and small college arenas.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!

Smaller "Core City" Central Arenas: 3 (Des Moines, Fort Wayne, Stockton)
Suburban Smaller-Than-Central-City primarily hockey arenas: 7 (Southaven/Memphis, Ontario, Cedar Park, Frisco, Hoffman Estates, Hempstead, Missisauga)
Expo Center/Sort-of-Former-Arenas in a Complex Format: 5 (Oklahoma City, Portland ME, Walker/Grand Rapids, Lakeland, Greensboro)
Small City Established Arenas (within reason): 3 (Prescott, Canton, Westchester)
PURPOSE-BUILT FOR THEIR TEAMS: 7 (Sioux Falls, Santa Cruz, Edinburg, Oshkosh, Washington, College Park, Wilmington)
Small College Arenas: 1 (Salt Lake)
Practice Facility: 1 (El Segundo)

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!

Smaller "Core City" Central Arenas: 3 (Des Moines, Fort Wayne, Stockton)
Suburban Smaller-Than-Central-City primarily hockey arenas: 7 (Southaven/Memphis, Ontario, Cedar Park, Frisco, Hoffman Estates, Hempstead, Missisauga)
Expo Center/Sort-of-Former-Arenas in a Complex Format: 5 (Oklahoma City, Portland ME, Walker/Grand Rapids, Lakeland, Greensboro)
Small City Established Arenas (within reason): 3 (Prescott, Canton, Westchester)
PURPOSE-BUILT FOR THEIR TEAMS: 7 (Sioux Falls, Santa Cruz, Edinburg, Oshkosh, Washington, College Park, Wilmington)
Small College Arenas: 1 (Salt Lake)
Practice Facility: 1 (El Segundo)

WNBA Atlanta Dream just aligned with the Skyhawks in College Park after leaving State Farm Arena, folks

 

[jabberoski]

WNBA Atlanta Dream just aligned with the Skyhawks in College Park after leaving State Farm Arena, folks

We've already strayed way off topic here. But, your initial argument was G LEAGUE teams. So, trying to change it by bringing up a WNBA team makes absolutely zero sense and isn't germane to the off-topicness already established here.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

We've already strayed way off topic here. But, your initial argument was G LEAGUE teams. So, trying to change it by bringing up a WNBA team makes absolutely zero sense and isn't germane to the off-topicness already established here.

so, are u saying Stockton shouldn't have either franchise?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

We've already strayed way off topic here. But, your initial argument was G LEAGUE teams. So, trying to change it by bringing up a WNBA team makes absolutely zero sense and isn't germane to the off-topicness already established here.

I'm not the one who was comparing it.....Centrum was

 

[wildcat48]

JFC..... Hutch, every GD time when people try to have decent discussion you end up hijacking and turning it into a complete f'n shitshow. Just stop! STOP! People are so tired of you. You'd be so better off if you didn't take this of the plantation conversations. Just stop!

 

[wildcat48]

I've heard nothing but negative feedback on Petrovek from the season ticket holders for the team. It would be wise for Calgary to dump this guy if they move the franchise. Sounds like he does nothing but run teams into the ground.

The stories that could be told about this guy from his time in Portland would fill volumes. There isn't a pocket he hasn't robbed, a person he hasn't stabbed in the back or a bridge that he hasn't burned in the local community. I'd doubt Calgary would let him go because of his connection to Brad Treliving. The two became close friends during the Coyotes affiliation in Portland.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

JFC..... Hutch, every GD time when people try to have decent discussion you end up hijacking and turning it into a complete f'n ****show. Just stop! STOP! People are so tired of you. You'd be so better off if you didn't take this of the plantation conversations. Just stop!

blame Centrum, wildcat, he's the one slandering Portland, and starting trouble even slandering the Red Claws when told otherwise, by numerous posters..... when he 1st started posting I cautioned him to DO Research before you post not just post false/inaccurate info