Stockton Heat relocation

Centrum Hockey

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The Heat signed a 5 year lease when the Heat moved in. Unless the Thunder signed a lease prior to 2015 when the Heat came to town, there is no way the current 5 year lease was inherited by the Heat. The Heat original lease agreement was a 5-year lease (which ends after this season) with an additional 5-year extension, which was not exercised. Now that they did not exercise their extension, they are negotiating a year by year extension.

Rumor has it that the Flames will sign the one year and move after that to a new arena in Colorado Springs, which is in current construction and won't be ready until the 2021 season.
Colorado Springs is probably as far as they could go without San Jose, LA ,Anaheim and Edmonton having an issue with it. If they went any farther east they would probably raise concern to the NHL and AHL board of governors.
 

JMCx4

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... Rumor has it that the Flames will sign the one year and move after that to a new arena in Colorado Springs, which is in current construction and won't be ready until the 2021 season.
I would certainly like to see that as a road trip triple play with Denver & Loveland. But the only recent news I could dig up about a hockey arena construction project in The Springs is the Robson Arena on the Colorado College campus (part of the "City for Champions (C4C)" 4-venue private/public development partnership). An AHL team sharing a college hockey arena & competing for weekend dates from October through February doesn't seem like a smart move, but maybe the short-bench Pacific Division scheduling would make it a bit easier. :huh:
 

Centrum Hockey

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I would certainly like to see that as a road trip triple play with Denver & Loveland. But the only recent news I could dig up about a hockey arena construction project in The Springs is the Robson Arena on the Colorado College campus (part of the "City for Champions (C4C)" 4-venue private/public development partnership). An AHL team sharing a college hockey arena & competing for weekend dates from October through February doesn't seem like a smart move, but maybe the short-bench Pacific Division scheduling would make it a bit easier. :huh:
Do Long Beach's and Fresno's arenas meet AHL Standards they seem like logical arena's for Pacific division AHL team relocation's but they rarely get brought up.
 

JMCx4

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Do Long Beach's and Fresno's arenas meet AHL Standards they seem like logical arena's for Pacific division AHL team relocation's but they rarely get brought up.
A simple search on "Fresno" in the AHL Forum yields 7 pages of hits. That's plenty of brought up.

And if the City of Long Beach, CA is still serious about convincing the L.A. Angels to move there, the Long Beach Arena along the waterfront won't be an arena for long.
 

Drake88

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Obviously it won't happen now that Palm Springs has been announced and the Sharks have sunk millions into renovating their arena for the Barracuda, but I always thought this would be a good setup for AHL West....

Stockton (San Jose) - I know it wont happen, but it just makes too much sense..
Ontario (LA)
Bakersfield (Edmonton)
San Diego (Anaheim)
Tucson (Arizona)
Texas (Dallas)
San Antonio (Seattle?)
- As we saw with their pick of Palm Springs, location was arguably the most important factor. Yes, there are more geographic rivals in California, but going back to 3 Texas teams would mean about 1/2 of their schedules played within a 3 hour radius.
Houston (Calgary) - We have seen what Calgary does to minor league markets, so what if they went to a "major league" city that has a proven track record of success at the AHL level?

This model would push Colorado to the Central and then leave one open spot in that division. If Nashville wants to go to Clarksville, St. Louis can have Milwaukee. If Nashville would prefer not to leave Milwaukee, St. Louis may finally get Kansas City which would help bridge the gap to Colorado in the division.
 
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JMCx4

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... This model would push Colorado to the Central and then leave one open spot in that division. If Nashville wants to go to Clarksville, St. Louis can have Milwaukee. If Nashville would prefer not to leave Milwaukee, St. Louis may finally get Kansas City which would help bridge the gap to Colorado in the division.
I Liked your post as a whole, but there has been no noise about KC in the Midwest hockey rumble for quite some time. A Clarksville-Nashville connection appears equally unlikely to me, beyond a cooperative venture for regional hockey development. But stranger things have happened in the AHL.
 

Drake88

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I Liked your post as a whole, but there has been no noise about KC in the Midwest hockey rumble for quite some time. A Clarksville-Nashville connection appears equally unlikely to me, beyond a cooperative venture for regional hockey development. But stranger things have happened in the AHL.

That's fair. After I took San Antonio away from St. Louis, I just figured that KC would probably be the most logical hypothetical landing spot for the Blues if they got to place their own AHL team.

The more I look at a possible alignment with 3 Texas teams in AHL west, the more I like it. I know it would never happen with Palm Springs coming in and San Jose unlikely to move, but Colorado is even closer to most Central teams in mileage than those in their current division. The cluster of teams around the Great Lakes also are in closer proximity than those in California making for shorter bus trips for Colorado once they get to their destination.

I also like the idea of bringing the California/west teams together with those in Texas. They are both sort of outliers, so having them in their own division makes sense. Each team has 2-3 teams within driving distance which should allow teams to play more of a variety instead of taking two game trips to Colorado and not being able to play anyone else while there.
 

Centrum Hockey

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That's fair. After I took San Antonio away from St. Louis, I just figured that KC would probably be the most logical hypothetical landing spot for the Blues if they got to place their own AHL team.

The more I look at a possible alignment with 3 Texas teams in AHL west, the more I like it. I know it would never happen with Palm Springs coming in and San Jose unlikely to move, but Colorado is even closer to most Central teams in mileage than those in their current division. The cluster of teams around the Great Lakes also are in closer proximity than those in California making for shorter bus trips for Colorado once they get to their destination.

I also like the idea of bringing the California/west teams together with those in Texas. They are both sort of outliers, so having them in their own division makes sense. Each team has 2-3 teams within driving distance which should allow teams to play more of a variety instead of taking two game trips to Colorado and not being able to play anyone else while there.
A St Louis AHL affiliated team in the Midwest needs a local owner or a situation like Binghamton where someone run's the business side and is responsible for any losses. The current ownership group has said multiple times they don't want to own or be responsible for the day to day operations of an ahl team.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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A St Louis AHL affiliated team in the Midwest needs a local owner or a situation like Binghamton where someone run's the business side and is reasonable for any losses. The current ownership group has said multiple times they don't want to own and be responsible for the day to day operations of an ahl team.
it's been done.....Peoria, as I recall grandstanded their way into the league, at the expense of who, Centrum, WORCESTER, that's why that city is involved more today, even helping San Jose arriving there in 2006-07.....Kansas City has a franchise, and rebuked any attempts from any proposed franchise, in any league, to protect the rights of the Mavericks brand.
 

210

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it's been done.....Peoria, as I recall grandstanded their way into the league, at the expense of who, Centrum, WORCESTER, that's why that city is involved more today, even helping San Jose arriving there in 2006-07.....Kansas City has a franchise, and rebuked any attempts from any proposed franchise, in any league, to protect the rights of the Mavericks brand.

Your reply has nothing to do at all with what Centrum posted.
 

Henderson Finest

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If you move Vegas from Chicago to Stockton, that would free up a Central spot for the Flames to take over. It's a shorter flight from Chicago to Calgary than San Francisco (direct) or Sacramento (with a stop in Vancouver).
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Your reply has nothing to do at all with what Centrum posted.
well, he has factually ignored the city's history, just like he claims, and when he's called out on it he ignores the true history of the issue, where was he when the discussion over that originally occurred, then Darryl, I'd MORE inclined to believe SOMEONE WHO HAS actual knowledge OF THE situation, WHETHER you believe it was right, wrong or indifferent...... THE point remains, where was Esche SUPPOSED TO FIND a franchise had the Blues elected to retain the franchise once the Kansas City option backfired.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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If you move Vegas from Chicago to Stockton, that would free up a Central spot for the Flames to take over. It's a shorter flight from Chicago to Calgary than San Francisco (direct) or Sacramento (with a stop in Vancouver).
Vegas has no interest in leaving Chicago, though, in the above scenario.... that states the Flames are interested in selling the Heat franchise to WHO, SF, Vegas doesn't own the Wolves, Levin does

Vegas was required by league bylaw to pick a market, that's why the Blues backed out and simply became an affiliate, not an owner/operator, Otherwise, Vancouver is in Chicago, and Utica has no franchise, the last 7 years, despite the conversation about Abbotsford AFTER WHAT the Flames did there (reports said Vancouver wanted in, Calgary denied and blocked any further discussion.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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@CHRDANHUTCH Worcester has had nothing to do with the blues franchise since the 2004-2005 ahl season stop hijacking thread's with nonsense.
you weren't there I was, Centrum, how did Utica get a franchise, then, UTICA is the Ice Cats as well as the Rivermen, THE Blues sold the franchise to Vancouver, AND REPLACED them in Chicago, when Colorado bought the Eagles UP from the ECHL, that's when the Blues landed in San Antonio....

all teams have to be affiliated, has been since the late 80s early 90s, Baltimore and Binghamton WERE UNMITIGATED DISASTERS on the ice, that's why every team since is required to have an affiliation, WHETHER or not it's an O/O or a straight affiliation, that's why Kansas City WASN'T admitted in the merger of 2001, because you can only operate one franchise at any given time, that's why the Blues seized operational control of the Ice Cats, when Roy Boe, who lured the franchise to Worcester FROM Springfield started assisting Bridgeport in operational decision, the AHL SAID pick one, AND it was Bridgeport, and that's why the Islanders own/operate Bridgeport.

Nobody, fans of other teams especially hated the way Peoria won the right at the expense of Worcester, SAME was said of the Connecticut Whale experiment vis a vis Hartford but by doing that halfway through a season, branding-wise, everybody saw through what Baldwin WAS Attempting.
 
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First off, Stockton is in serious trouble, but where else can Calgary go? I don't think I'd want them as the parent club/owners of a minor pro team in my city because they have shown to be city-hoppers. I remember seeing the Omaha, Quad City, and Abbotsford. Maybe they could place them in the Saddledome with them? But that would be even more complicated with the WHL HItman there too and the NLL Roughnecks. I honestly think Calgary has really put themselves in between a rock and a hard place here.
Secondly @CHRDANHUTCH, I am from Peoria, I grew up watching the Rivermen, and do you think we care about Worcester? No. Just like how the Blues didn't care that they lied to local owners when they bought the Rivermen that they would do their best as owners. They didn't even try and they really hurt the fanbase here for a couple seasons after the 2012-2013 season. The Blues are now in a fairly unfavorable situation with farm teams compared to where they were seven seasons ago. So while I am still a Blues fan, I don't feel sorry for any issues they have with affiliates now. Peoria was loyal to the Blues for three decades dating back to the mid-1980s in the old IHL, and lying and selling us out was how St. Louis repaid us. The worst part was they sold us too far into the spring for us to get into the ECHL, so we've been stuck in the Southern Pro ever since. Not that the league is bad (honestly it's gotten better over the last several years), but it's just a reminder of how the Blues stabbed us in the back for decades of loyalty.
 
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CHRDANHUTCH

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First off, Stockton is in serious trouble, but where else can Calgary go? I don't think I'd want them as the parent club/owners of a minor pro team in my city because they have shown to be city-hoppers. I remember seeing the Omaha, Quad City, and Abbotsford. Maybe they could place them in the Saddledome with them? But that would be even more complicated with the WHL HItman there too and the NLL Roughnecks. I honestly think Calgary has really put themselves in between a rock and a hard place here.
Secondly @CHRDANHUTCH, I am from Peoria, I grew up watching the Rivermen, and do you think we care about Worcester? No. Just like how the Blues didn't care that they lied to local owners when they bought the Rivermen that they would do their best as owners. They didn't even try and they really hurt the fanbase here for a couple seasons after the 2012-2013 season. The Blues are now in a fairly unfavorable situation with farm teams compared to where they were seven seasons ago. So while I am still a Blues fan, I don't feel sorry for any issues they have with affiliates now. Peoria was loyal to the Blues for three decades dating back to the mid-1980s in the old IHL, and lying and selling us out was how St. Louis repaid us. The worst part was they sold us too far into the spring for us to get into the ECHL, so we've been stuck in the Southern Pro ever since. Not that the league is bad (honestly it's gotten better over the last several years), but it's just a reminder of how the Blues stabbed us in the back for decades of loyalty.
TOTALLY AGREE, this is why the business part of the sport has gotten way out of hand, the only issue I have with Peoria really is this, as all fans should: the way the market is portrayed hence the grandstanding 'celebration' at the expense of another city or fanbase, and how that was portrayed and nothing could be done about it.
 

Centrum Hockey

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First off, Stockton is in serious trouble, but where else can Calgary go? I don't think I'd want them as the parent club/owners of a minor pro team in my city because they have shown to be city-hoppers. I remember seeing the Omaha, Quad City, and Abbotsford. Maybe they could place them in the Saddledome with them? But that would be even more complicated with the WHL HItman there too and the NLL Roughnecks. I honestly think Calgary has really put themselves in between a rock and a hard place here.
Secondly @CHRDANHUTCH, I am from Peoria, I grew up watching the Rivermen, and do you think we care about Worcester? No. Just like how the Blues didn't care that they lied to local owners when they bought the Rivermen that they would do their best as owners. They didn't even try and they really hurt the fanbase here for a couple seasons after the 2012-2013 season. The Blues are now in a fairly unfavorable situation with farm teams compared to where they were seven seasons ago. So while I am still a Blues fan, I don't feel sorry for any issues they have with affiliates now. Peoria was loyal to the Blues for three decades dating back to the mid-1980s in the old IHL, and lying and selling us out was how St. Louis repaid us. The worst part was they sold us too far into the spring for us to get into the ECHL, so we've been stuck in the Southern Pro ever since. Not that the league is bad (honestly it's gotten better over the last several years), but it's just a reminder of how the Blues stabbed us in the back for decades of loyalty.
The Calgary/Stockton situation is definitely an issue.But the blues situation is not Tom Stillman does not want to have anything to do with the business of running an ahl team. There is no proof out there that they are bothered by the agreement with the rampage and would like to find a ahl location close to home.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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The Calgary/Stockton situation is definitely an issue.But the blues situation is not Tom Stillman does not want to have anything to do with the business of running an ahl team. There is no proof out there that they are bothered by the agreement with the rampage and would like to find a ahl location close to home.
that was after the fact, Centrum, the reason Stillman sold the franchise to Vancouver had everything to do with it....., at the time Vancouver was in Rosemont (it's not Chicago, NEVERMIND what the mailing address is)... AND then Vegas was starting.... everybody in hockey at any level knew that Kansas City was a non-starter, ESPECIALLY IF IT was Sprint Center AND the public statement about a franchise in Kansas City from a financial standpoint, was a NO.... (REMEMBER the Mavericks were known as Missouri, for much of their existence, even though they're based out of Independence).... San Antonio was the only option they had once it became public knowledge that the Mavericks wanted nothing to do with either being promoted, the way Colorado was, and even that had to be conditional on the arena being brought up to league specs.
 

PCSPounder

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and if you think Calgary is relocating again, for the 6th time in the last 16 years, what city are they going to, knowing the history of the way the Flames operate the franchise, I have a suspicion that the AHL has a hand in this just as the way a) the League is operated and b) THE precedent set by the Oilers, whether to operate a franchise or face the loss of it, ie termination, WHICH is why OKC was the option for the 5 years there, before 2014/15, why did the 2nd 5 year option not been exercised if the reports are accurate that Stockton inherited the contract originally signed by the Thunder as has been reported, wouldn't that have been rectified since 2014/15, WHY are they claiming that needs to be done, and the city is in agreement of the 1 yr bridge lease, pending a longer-term extension.... this isn't like an affiliation extension, but they are hand in hand and treated identically, under the rules set forth by the AHL, no affiliation, no franchise, no lease, no franchise.... we said that a ten year lease or affiliation typically doesn't work, when in fact it's the opposite, why did Providence recently extend their PDC for ten years to 2029, EVEN THOUGH, logistically, THEIR ownership is independent of the affiliation, AND IT IS RUN, MUCH the same way that if there was no local ties, Boston controls how the franchise operates, much as Calgary does in Stockton, wouldn't you think that Boston should buy the affiliate outright, because it's operated that way.

There is ALWAYS someone that doesn't do their homework.

Always.
 

210

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you weren't there I was, Centrum, how did Utica get a franchise, then, UTICA is the Ice Cats as well as the Rivermen, THE Blues sold the franchise to Vancouver, AND REPLACED them in Chicago, when Colorado bought the Eagles UP from the ECHL, that's when the Blues landed in San Antonio....

all teams have to be affiliated, has been since the late 80s early 90s, Baltimore and Binghamton WERE UNMITIGATED DISASTERS on the ice, that's why every team since is required to have an affiliation, WHETHER or not it's an O/O or a straight affiliation, that's why Kansas City WASN'T admitted in the merger of 2001, because you can only operate one franchise at any given time, that's why the Blues seized operational control of the Ice Cats, when Roy Boe, who lured the franchise to Worcester FROM Springfield started assisting Bridgeport in operational decision, the AHL SAID pick one, AND it was Bridgeport, and that's why the Islanders own/operate Bridgeport.

Nobody, fans of other teams especially hated the way Peoria won the right at the expense of Worcester, SAME was said of the Connecticut Whale experiment vis a vis Hartford but by doing that halfway through a season, branding-wise, everybody saw through what Baldwin WAS Attempting.

You weren't there. Not in any way, shape, or form. Pretty much everything else that's posted here is total garbage too, and not related in any way to what Centrum's original point was.
 

JMCx4

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... Pretty much everything else that's posted here is total garbage too, and not related in any way to what Centrum's original point was.
This Centrum's original point, or some other original point? Can't very well get this thread back on track (as if we EVER could) without some specificity. :dunno:
 
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DudeWhereIsMakar

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If this rumour is true, then I think the way to resolve it, that is if it's true on Vegas's end, to sell to the Golden Knights and Calgary takes over the Chicago Wolves.
 
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