Proposal: STL/TOR Trade

[Kamiccolo]

Thats how i View him. Shattenkirk like. I am sure he is better defensivley but they generated same amout of points and are both liabilities

Except he isn't a liability defensively. I swear this entire site no one watches players on here outside of their team. Please provide proof of your claim that he is a liability, because literally every stat says the opposite. Does he have brain farts? Sure he does but that doesn't mean anything. I swear people think his game 7 is who he is. Babs understands the value he brings

 

[Colt55]

Except they aren't. I swear this entire site no one watches players on here outside of their team. Please provide proof of your claim that he is a liability, because literally every stat says the opposite. Does he have brain farts? Sure he does but that doesn't mean anything. I swear people think his game 7 is who he is. Babs understands the value he brings

Your own Leaf fans have been stating it in this thread. How are you ignoring it. I watch Toronto i watched the entire series cause i was betting on it. FYI on leafs. Lost go figure. Any way. He is not a strong defender. elite plays offensively but he is a liability on defense.

 

[TK 421]

I wouldn't necessarily call O'Reilly a massive upgrade either. He was super hyped up going to Buffalo as a Bergeron lite. Had no impact on a winning team, and now he's in St. Louis.

My macro criticism of the Blues is they probably didn't add a ton of footspeed to play that modern up tempo game, and I predict it will be their down fall.

Not interested in debating you in regards to O'Reilly vs Stastny but most I think would call O'Reilly a major upgrade there especially since Stastny couldn't manage a full season if his life depended on it. Case in point Stastny is now going to miss several months with an injury, no surprise there.

You're missing players for the Blues if you don't think they added footspeed. Kyrou is a flat out burner and Thomas is very quick as well. If the Blues have a bad year it will be because they kept Yeo too long, not because of footspeed or any personnel issue imo.

 

[Colt55]

Except he isn't a liability defensively. I swear this entire site no one watches players on here outside of their team. Please provide proof of your claim that he is a liability, because literally every stat says the opposite. Does he have brain farts? Sure he does but that doesn't mean anything. I swear people think his game 7 is who he is. Babs understands the value he brings

I am having issues loading warrior and hero charts compairing colt and Gardnier, Gradnier and Shattenkirk.

The stats and your own fans do not lie. I think you just are a little bit wearing homer Glasses

Its ok You can keep Gardnier We dont need or want him. You can Keep Nylander We dont need or afford him.

SO lets just stop. There is no middle ground. There is no point in arguing. Not oneblues fan is for this and most of the leafs fans agree with blues fans that this OP is aweful.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Your own Leaf fans have been stating it in this thread. How are you ignoring it. I watch Toronto i watched the entire series cause i was betting on it. FYI on leafs. Lost go figure. Any way. He is not a strong defender. elite plays offensively but he is a liability on defense.

Many players had a poor series. Is Matthews trash? Is Andersen trash?

You are sourcing Leaf fans who are notorious for scapegoating players especially when they are upcoming UFA's. And FYI I have this same argument on the Leaf board.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I don't care to debate the value of the specific players involved.

I'll just sit here comfortable in the knowledge that the Blues would never entertain the thought of this.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I am having issues loading warrior and hero charts compairing colt and Gardnier, Gradnier and Shattenkirk.

The stats and your own fans do not lie. I think you just are a little bit wearing homer Glasses

Its ok You can keep Gardnier We dont need or want him. You can Keep Nylander We dont need or afford him.

SO lets just stop. There is no middle ground. There is no point in arguing. Not oneblues fan is for this and most of the leafs fans agree with blues fans that this OP is aweful.

I don't even care about this proposal we all said it was trash on the first page. I just care when people are just way off on Gardiner on this site.

 

[Notsince67]

They keep saying he is needs to prove himself. He did in worlds. But then they say well thats not the nhl. The guy gets 23 minutes a night. Has the stats of a first liner but is behind petro.

I need all leaf fans to answer me one question. If you were to acquire Parayko, (never gonna happen but) which line would he play on.
Second question. Is he currently better than all your RHD dmen. Is he currrently better than all of EDM RHD.
But he cant prove to be a #1 rhd ok.

1. It's hard to say. This year, I would think he begins on the second pair to ease him in if the leafs hold onto all their Dmen. If Gardiner gets moved, it is highly likely that Hainsey moves to his natural LH side, moving Parayko onto the 1st pair.
2. yes

 

[DRW204]

Parayko>Nylander>=(I think Nylander will end up being a better player than Schwartz at similar ages but Nylander's contract demands flattens the value)Schwartz>>>>Gardiner (as a UFA-1), in terms of value imo.

Don't think STL does this it doesn't really satisfy their needs.

 

[Colt55]

I don't even care about this proposal we all said it was trash on the first page. I just care when people are just way off on Gardiner on this site.

How am I way off He is an offensive Dman who is not very good at defence. Everyone here pretty much agrees. If they didnt then why are they agreeing with me and not with you. I used the playoffs as an example of me watching several games in a row.

Look i get you like the guy. But at some point wouldnt you have your fan base backing you up?

 

[Colt55]

1. It's hard to say. This year, I would think he begins on the second pair to ease him in if the leafs hold onto all their Dmen. If Gardiner gets moved, it is highly likely that Hainsey moves to his natural LH side, moving Parayko onto the 1st pair.
2. yes

So your saying that Parayko would be on Second Pairing. Thats hilarious. Im not sure if you remmeber but Parayko and rreilly Tore it up together in Worlds. There is not one dman on your team that would play ahead of Parayko. I am sorry but this post thread has just gotten way out of control. Its actually funny at this point

 

[Notsince67]

Thats how i View him. Shattenkirk like. I am sure he is better defensivley but they generated same amout of points and are both liabilities

He actually has pretty elite zone denial stats

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Are both sides saying no? Must be close then.
Biggest flaw I see is Gardiner being a pending UFA. Beyond that, I think Leafs need to add but if Gardiner was extended it is not bad. Of course Nylander is still holding out. He would have to agree to a contract of SOME kind.

 

[Colt55]

He actually has pretty elite zone denial stats

Stopping someone from entering the zone is a decent stat, but as far as defending inside the zone he isnt that great. I am not saying he is bad but his defense is better suited for 3rd line his offense is beter suited for 1st pairing. Thats why he is decent 3-4 guy, Like shattenkirk can get points but needs lesser quality of opposition.

Any way you guys are probably going to keep him or get a 1st and prospect from a contending team. Besides that he doesnt get you Jaden Schwartz

 

[Kamiccolo]

How am I way off He is an offensive Dman who is not very good at defence. Everyone here pretty much agrees. If they didnt then why are they agreeing with me and not with you. I used the playoffs as an example of me watching several games in a row.

Look i get you like the guy. But at some point wouldnt you have your fan base backing you up?

Because Gardiner has become the scapegoat of all the Leafs defensive troubles. He gets unfairly singled out, and if you only read the comments you would assume he is terrible, yet the physical stats and advanced stats AND the opinion of many talented hockey professionals all disagree with those opinions.

Seriously Jake has always hate his haters but his terrible game 7 put a lot of fans over the edge. If the puck goes in whether it is on Gardiner or not someone will find a way to blame the goal on him.

Same with Sparks right now over frustrations about losing two good goalies to waivers.

 

[Colt55]

Are both sides saying no? Must be close then.
Biggest flaw I see is Gardiner being a pending UFA. Beyond that, I think Leafs need to add but if Gardiner was extended it is not bad. Of course Nylander is still holding out. He would have to agree to a contract of SOME kind.

We dont need LHD we have 3 in the hole. We need Rhd we dont have any quality after Parayko.

Why on Gods green earth would we trade Schwartz (point per game last year) for Gardnier. I get it Leafs and just about every other fanbase wants parayko. But please tell me how this helps the blues more than it hurts them

 

[Kamiccolo]

Stopping someone from entering the zone is a decent stat, but as far as defending inside the zone he isnt that great. I am not saying he is bad but his defense is better suited for 3rd line his offense is beter suited for 1st pairing. Thats why he is decent 3-4 guy, Like shattenkirk can get points but needs lesser quality of opposition.

Any way you guys are probably going to keep him or get a 1st and prospect from a contending team. Besides that he doesnt get you Jaden Schwartz

Gardiner is one of the best shot suppression D in the league though. Like I said, look into it more please. You can not like the player that's ok but we need to stop this he can't play defense and is Shattenkirk because I have watched Shatty this year and my god he is god f***ing awful.

 

[Notsince67]

So your saying that Parayko would be on Second Pairing. Thats hilarious. Im not sure if you remmeber but Parayko and rreilly Tore it up together in Worlds. There is not one dman on your team that would play ahead of Parayko. I am sorry but this post thread has just gotten way out of control. Its actually funny at this point

I think Parayko would move to the first but this not this year. The leafs never move people into those positions right from the start and you clearly don't understand the functioning of the 2nd pair. Gardiner is on the second pair and has traditionally provided offensive support to the Matthews line. Pairings often don't work the way of rankings anymore. Even Karlsson wasn't on the 1st pair in Ottawa. Was he their top Dman? Of course he was but the systems that deploy dmen as offensive weapons aren't that hierarchical. I'm not disparaging Parayko. I put him in a position of need

 

[Colt55]

Because Gardiner has become the scapegoat of all the Leafs defensive troubles. He gets unfairly singled out, and if you only read the comments you would assume he is terrible, yet the physical stats and advanced stats AND the opinion of many talented hockey professionals all disagree with those opinions.

Seriously Jake has always hate his haters but his terrible game 7 put a lot of fans over the edge. If the puck goes in whether it is on Gardiner or not someone will find a way to blame the goal on him.

Same with Sparks right now over frustrations about losing two good goalies to waivers.

I dont think your hearing me Brah I watched the games. I can be objective cause I dont root for either team. You obviously have homer glasses on which is ok. I dont.

 

[Colt55]

Gardiner is one of the best shot suppression D in the league though. Like I said, look into it more please. You can not like the player that's ok but we need to stop this he can't play defense and is Shattenkirk because I have watched Shatty this year and my god he is god ****ing awful.

Yeah this year look up his stats from when he was with the blues.

 

[Colt55]

I think Parayko would move to the first but this not this year. The leafs never move people into those positions right from the start and you clearly don't understand the functioning of the 2nd pair. Gardiner is on the second pair and has traditionally provided offensive support to the Matthews line. Pairings often don't work the way of rankings anymore. Even Karlsson wasn't on the 1st pair in Ottawa. Was he their top Dman? Of course he was but the systems that deploy dmen as offensive weapons aren't that hierarchical. I'm not disparaging Parayko. I put him in a position of need

What you said makes sense. But i will tell you this. Parayko wasnt first pairing in first Worlds. But he was in the last few games. He jumped over several people including ekblad to play with Riley.

This all doesnt matter. He just isnt being trade. This probably needs to be closed

 

[Romkey]

Thats exactly how shattenkirk was. Great for 50+ points but in the playoffs when the game was on the line he was a liability. Just like i said Gardnier was.

Ya I understand your previous comment now that I think of it more. Either way, I can't see any move that works for both STL and TOR.

 

[Colt55]

I dont think I know. Petro isnt being traded for a package or other grabage.
It seems to be a trend here from canadian teams. We want your best player but we wont give you anything of value back. But the players we are offerning are amazing just need a change of scenery. LOL

WHat a joke. YOU want a top 5 rhd dman in the league and are offering what. You got nothing besides mathews dont like it keep walking. You dont see us asking to trade him

 

[Notsince67]

Stopping someone from entering the zone is a decent stat, but as far as defending inside the zone he isnt that great. I am not saying he is bad but his defense is better suited for 3rd line his offense is beter suited for 1st pairing. Thats why he is decent 3-4 guy, Like shattenkirk can get points but needs lesser quality of opposition.

Any way you guys are probably going to keep him or get a 1st and prospect from a contending team. Besides that he doesnt get you Jaden Schwartz

I'm pretty sure the leafs want to re-sign Gardiner. Not a popular position among some of his detractors but he did help the team generate a huge amount of shots and personally dropped 52 points last year.
I will take a lot of flak here but I would be ok with a Nylander + Sandin for Parayko. Sandin represents a really good prospect for the future (totally solid kid) and Nylander gives some really good offensive zone entries and playmaking punch.
INMO, the leafs are overpaying but the window for winning isn't forever.

 

[Colt55]

Ya I understand your previous comment now that I think of it more. Either way, I can't see any move that works for both STL and TOR.

I agree. Maybe before we got ROR, Perron, Bozak, and brought up Thomas and Kyrou. We are set on wingers and defense. All we need now is for Allen to step up or move onto Husso