Proposal: STL/TOR Trade

[Colt55]

I'm pretty sure the leafs want to re-sign Gardiner. Not a popular position among some of his detractors but he did help the team generate a huge amount of shots and personally dropped 52 points last year.
I will take a lot of flak here but I would be ok with a Nylander + Sandin for Parayko. Sandin represents a really good prospect for the future (totally solid kid) and Nylander gives some really good offensive zone entries and playmaking punch.
INMO, the leafs are overpaying but the window for winning isn't forever.

Once again I get that your offering two peices but blues are set on LHD we have Walman and Mikola. Both are ready to make the jump soon. LHD is not the issue. We need RHD prospects and we dont need forwards. Kyrou covers rw and thomas covers center we are good

 

[Cotton]

I dont think I know. Petro isnt being traded for a package or other grabage.
It seems to be a trend here from canadian teams. We want your best player but we wont give you anything of value back. But the players we are offerning are amazing just need a change of scenery. LOL

WHat a joke. YOU want a top 5 rhd dman in the league and are offering what. You got nothing besides mathews dont like it keep walking. You dont see us asking to trade him

I had to check and make sure this was actually posted for me again after reading it. Way too much hostility and shrill language when my posts were only joking around with you.

I'm not asking for any Blues player, nor do I expect anything, and you trying to single out "Canadian teams" which I assume you mean Canadian fans (we have a tone of Euro and US fans btw) is kinda f***ed up there Colt. I get every so often one of these kinds of threads pop up but we have a huge fanbase and we dont have a bulletin board where we sticky a note for all to read like "Made proposal for Parayko today, didnt go well. Nix Colton to TO in future proposals", you understand?

Your frustration at some doesnt justify being a **** to others bra.

 

[howkie]

So Gardiner = Schwartz, np we offer Myers for Kadri then

 

[BleedBlue14]

I wouldn't necessarily call O'Reilly a massive upgrade either. He was super hyped up going to Buffalo as a Bergeron lite. Had no impact on a winning team, and now he's in St. Louis.

My macro criticism of the Blues is they probably didn't add a ton of footspeed to play that modern up tempo game, and I predict it will be their down fall.

Well he pretty much is a Bergeron-lite. The guy wins face offs is good in all 3 zones. And is a key cog ES, PP, and PK. The Blues issue is that their coach is either trying to reinvent the wheel or do things that don’t work with very little ability to make changes. The speed issue could be very easily combatted if our genius of a coach didn’t insist on limiting our youths minutes to 6 and 9 minutes a game. While constantly throwing veterans who have time after time not been great on the powerplay out there instead of a Kyrou who has elite tools to be a powerplay QB on the half wall.

Come on though dude Shattenkirk? Gardiner's underlying numbers are ridiculous and he is almost always at the end of the night in the positive for generated chances for even if he has a highlight reel blooper once a week.

I think what he is meaning is what Shattenkirk was in STL. Shattenkirk was a pretty elite point producer. But with this he was somewhat always viewed as a potential top pairing defender. Which he wasn’t due to inconsistency he had in the d zone. He was always a phenomenal passer etc and PPQB. But he lacked shut down ability due to a few defensive hiccups here and there.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We dont need LHD we have 3 in the hole. We need Rhd we dont have any quality after Parayko.

Why on Gods green earth would we trade Schwartz (point per game last year) for Gardnier. I get it Leafs and just about every other fanbase wants parayko. But please tell me how this helps the blues more than it hurts them

That's why I said Leafs would have to add. And everybody needs RHD over LHD. You don't do it Schwartz for Gardiner. You have to like the package and Nylander is the most value there. He is younger than Schwartz and can play C. If those advantages plus the add from TML don't do it for you then you aren't going to do the trade. Simple.

The trouble with this trade board is that almost every proposal gets loudly shouted down by both sides. Try using the proposal as a basis for discussion. Sometimes there is merit. A little tweaking with the knowledge fans have of their own teams could lead to some interesting possibilities. Outrage leads nowhere. Not singling you out. It is throughout the trade board.

 

[FalcorMulch]

Gardiner is a glorified bottom pairing PP defense. The only reason his point totals were high last season was because he was their PP QB.

He was tied for 6th in even strength points among defensemen last season. Less than 30% of his points last season were from the PP, the lowest its been since his rookie season. Why bother checking before you say something, am I right?

 

[BAM]

If Parayko was traded to Toronto, do you think he would be paired with Reilly? I do, and as a result he would probably lead all RHD on the Leafs in ice time and play against the best competition. This by all accounts would make him a top pairing dman.
I understand he isn't Hedman level but I would be surprised if you could name 31 RHD I would rather have on my team.

If Parayko were traded here he would be paired with Rielly correct. However the usage that Rielly (and Hainsey) isn't something that Parayko has faced consistently before. It isn't a guarantee that he will be able to handle it. I think he can, but there is risk. Just like how Nylander could stay at a 60 point level and be a full time center, or go ppg and return to center in which the Leafs just handed the Blues a potential ppg center in return for a 3D if Parayko can't handle top pairing usage. If he does then you're looking at a potential 1D traded for 1C best case scenario for both teams. Who's more likely to reach their ceiling? Who knows but that's the risk with this type of deal. I don't think the Blues have the defensive depth behind Petro and Parayko to risk losing him so I'll understand if Blues fans didn't want to.

 

[Critical13]

Couple strange things about this thread

1. St Louis can’t afford to trade defencemen because their defence is currently one of the worst in the league as a team, and top d impact that more than anyone on the ice. People saying Toronto need defencemen who can play D should also consider that St Louis may actually need them more. Parayko is not someone you trade.

2. I am not sure where this myth comes from that st Louis doesn’t need wingers. Long term - I guess that’s debatable. As of today though, their wings have been hugely unproductive, especially the rookies. A possession and shot driver like Nylander is actually a perfect fit in St Louis. He would help them drive offence at 5v5. Right now they’ve are relying entirely on their top 5 pp which has been pretty flukey and I don’t think they can count on it staying top 5 and providing most of their offence all year.

Panarin is a perfect fit imo but Nylander also would fit the bill.

 

[TK 421]

Couple strange things about this thread

1. St Louis can’t afford to trade defencemen because their defence is currently one of the worst in the league as a team, and top d impact that more than anyone on the ice. People saying Toronto need defencemen who can play D should also consider that St Louis may actually need them more. Parayko is not someone you trade.

2. I am not sure where this myth comes from that st Louis doesn’t need wingers. Long term - I guess that’s debatable. As of today though, their wings have been hugely unproductive, especially the rookies. A possession and shot driver like Nylander is actually a perfect fit in St Louis. He would help them drive offence at 5v5. Right now they’ve are relying entirely on their top 5 pp which has been pretty flukey and I don’t think they can count on it staying top 5 and providing most of their offence all year.

Panarin is a perfect fit imo but Nylander also would fit the bill.

None of what you stated is actually personnel related, it's usage and coaching. Drawing any conclusions about what STL may need moving forward is pointless if your assessment is being made while Yeo is still here.

 

[Critical13]

None of what you stated is actually personnel related, it's usage and coaching. Drawing any conclusions about what STL may need moving forward is pointless if your assessment is being made while Yeo is still here.

Disagree, we all love our players and the coach is always the easy scapegoat. We shall see, though, if Yeo gets relieved of his duties.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

then why was he the best dman in worlds. He started as not playing and climbed


I followed the playoff series last summer. HE was aweful, you can deny it all you want, but when leaf fans call him out for being horible in his own end and from watching him play reminds me of shattenkirk. We dont want him or his ufa status. Why does every canadian team try to dump their problems on the blues and expect our best young talent back.

MTL it thomas, OTT it was schwartz or Kyrou or thomas, EDM parayko, TOR parayko .

I have to gove wpg credit they havent been creating crap tons of post asking for our players.

Oh wow you followed one playoff series and formed an opinion while ignoring the regular season or the previous playoff series. That's cool...

Gardiner was far from the worst defender overall in that series on the Leafs. He had a bad game 7 but so did Anderson and the team in general.

If he was terrible as you think he wouldn't be in the top 5 for ES minutes while not receiving any significant sheltering (zone deployment or QoC)...

Edit: I'm not commenting on the value of the trade just your trashing of a player your unfamiliar with.

 

[TK 421]

Disagree, we all love our players and the coach is always the easy scapegoat. We shall see, though, if Yeo gets relieved of his duties.

I believe his firing isn't far off. Too many warning signs of past problems and the defensive structure is an absolute mess.

 

[simon IC]

Once again ... trading Parayko opens a huge hole on our RD that can't be filled internally. Gardiner is a LD. We currently have Edmundson, Dunn, Bouwmeester, and Jerabek there. We also have Gunnarsson on IR, and Mikkola and Walman waiting to step in soon. Then there is Gardiner's impending UFA status. Nylander is a very talented, but soft winger. We have lots of those. He simply isn't necessary, and we certainly won't be able (or even want) to afford him. I am sorry if these points have been posted earlier, but obviously, they are not being understood. I genuinely regret the unnecessary hostility in this thread, and between the respective fanbases, but come on, it is a bad proposal for the Blues, and we have read too many of these before.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Couple strange things about this thread

1. St Louis can’t afford to trade defencemen because their defence is currently one of the worst in the league as a team, and top d impact that more than anyone on the ice. People saying Toronto need defencemen who can play D should also consider that St Louis may actually need them more. Parayko is not someone you trade.

2. I am not sure where this myth comes from that st Louis doesn’t need wingers. Long term - I guess that’s debatable. As of today though, their wings have been hugely unproductive, especially the rookies. A possession and shot driver like Nylander is actually a perfect fit in St Louis. He would help them drive offence at 5v5. Right now they’ve are relying entirely on their top 5 pp which has been pretty flukey and I don’t think they can count on it staying top 5 and providing most of their offence all year.

Panarin is a perfect fit imo but Nylander also would fit the bill.

Considering it is only 5 games into the season and we have turned over about half of our forward group I will give pass. I have no and I mean absolutely 0 fear that Jaden Schwartz will not go on a hot streak soon. Once Patrick Maroon is finally taken off of the ROR Tarasenko line I really have no fear that Tarasenko will have a little more room to work instead of slowly cycling the puck in the corner playing a 2 man game in the ozone with ROR (Kyrou is slotted in with the two now per a couple of reports from practices). Perron has actually been gelling fairly well with Schenn and hopefully they keep him on the Schenn/Schwartz line. This leaves Steen, your guess is as good as mine. He's been fine, he's getting older and I'm sure he's not that 50-60 point player anymore nor does he need to be. But with that being said he has 4 points in 5 and plays all situations and is responsible defensively. Not necessarily a line driver but a great option for a 3rd line left wing. Maroon, I don't know I didn't ever necessarily love the signing but it was pretty cheap and I guess he provides something on the powerplay although I'm not so sure that a few others couldn't provide a bit more in a different area while watching a lot of the more successful powerplays around the league. I am excluding Kyrou for right now as he is 5 games into his NHL career and has been constantly shuffled from line to line and not given any powerplay opportunities as well as being given limited ice time. Blais has ultimately been shuffled throughout the lineup as well, I'm not necessarily sold on him being more than a 3rd/4th liner at this point in time as I have a bit of a hesitation after seeing him last season, he is however only 20/21 and has been playing a lot more of a physical game as opposed to what I expected of him. Barbashev has been great in the 4th line role.

I believe a lot of our issues with I guess lower scoring (although it's right at about league average) goes hand in hand with the issues in giving up goals. A lot of it falls on the left side of our defense right now outside of Joel Edmundson who has only played in 2 or 3 I believe. Jay Bouwmeester's breakout passes and turnovers have been a nightmare. Vince Dunn is not playing with anywhere near the moxy he had last season. Jerabek/Butler AHL players, Jerabek didn't get much of a fair shake as I doubt he was able to practice more than once or twice before playing. This doesn't factor in that Bortuzzo has not exactly looked great thus far (I believe he did last year at a lot of points in the year, although he still took some boneheaded penalties), Schmaltz has actually looked pretty good, Parayko in my opinion this season so far has been our best defenseman as Pietrangelo has not looked like Pietrangelo thus far. Nonetheless, our exits have not exactly been clean yet. Chalk it up to new personnel or underachieving personnel whatever it may be. But I also lay about 70% of the blame on coaching as well, but I don't believe that is the issue with the exits but instead with the jumbled defensive zone setup and the mess of a powerplay we have especially entering the zone.

 

[simon IC]

Well, I come back to this thread and it's just exploded.

Thoughts that Schwartz isn't demonstrable. At Nylander's age, Schwartz had half the number of points. That's not to say that he won't flatten out, but Nylander is definitively valued higher than Schwartz. Maybe not by all that much, but he is.

Parayko and Gardiner - Gardiner is an offensive defenseman that needs a good defensive conscience in order to be successful. He'll put up 40-45 points this year; Parayko will put up 35 (again). Parayko, however, is someone you can put out there in the last two minutes of a game to defend a lead. He's also played sheltered minutes under Piet.

This really works out to trading two first line wingers and two second pairing Ds. Nylander will outscore Schwartz over the next three years, and Gardiner will outscore Parayko. You can make the money work on both sides. Toronto needs more defense - which this gives; St. Louis needs more offense, which this gives. Maybe you throw in some draft picks to make it equal out, but I thought all along that this is close.

No, we do not. We really do not! I don't know where this narrative is coming from.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Leafs just need to sit tight and wait for alex pietrangelo to become a ufa and sign him in a couple years. I already know one of his best friends that recently moved back to Toronto that is working behind the scenes laying the groundwork to get him to come home.

 

[Colt55]

No, we do not. We really do not! I don't know where this narrative is coming from.

It's crazy you have 60pt winger who could possibly transition to center. Then you have Schwartz who is great two way player who was ppg last year and baring his freak injuries has been a driving force for the team.

You know what I'm done.

Cotton I apologize if I came of hostile not my in intention long day.

This trade prop was crap. Blues need parayko and Schwartz. It would be nice to have nylander but not at that cost. We can't afford a 7 8 mil forward. We are set and good to go. Kyrou and Thomas are our future young guys.

 

[Ranksu]

Another Parayko proposal. Leafs fans just don't understand he's untouchable.

 

[Colt55]

Leafs just need to sit tight and wait for alex pietrangelo to become a ufa and sign him in a couple years. I already know one of his best friends that recently moved back to Toronto that is working behind the scenes laying the groundwork to get him to come home.

Do you really think he will move his wife and infant triplets to Toronto where she will have zero family support. I think not but good luck with that. Also he is going to command 8-10 mil how is Toronto going to afford that when they will be giving 16 18 mil to Mathews and marker don't forget all the other era's you have to sign. Lol good luck with that

 

[Dominicr]

Ok fine you can have parayko and Schwartz for nylander and Gardner but you also have to take steen and bouwmeester and send us your next 2 firsts and sandin so we can trade them for panarin and bob.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Do you really think he will move his wife and infant triplets to Toronto where she will have zero family support. I think not but good luck with that. Also he is going to command 8-10 mil how is Toronto going to afford that when they will be giving 16 18 mil to Mathews and marker don't forget all the other era's you have to sign. Lol good luck with that

Zero family support? He’s from Toronto. Also the big homie Carlo Coliacovo with his wife and young children who are close with AP and his wife are working behind the scenes. He’s not getting 8-10 hes more than likely getting a Ryan Mcdonagh type deal. He could absolutely just want to be a nobody and never win a cup in St. Louis or he could want to come home, be the missing piece and become a legend in the process. Your argument is sound but I know what I would choose.

 

[CamelToews]

Ok fine you can have parayko and Schwartz for nylander and Gardner but you also have to take steen and bouwmeester and send us your next 2 firsts and sandin so we can trade them for panarin and bob.

I love Steen.

 

[Colt55]

Zero family support? He’s from Toronto. Also the big homie Carlo Coliacovo with his wife and young children who are close with AP and his wife are working behind the scenes. He’s not getting 8-10 hes more than likely getting a Ryan Mcdonagh type deal. He could absolutely just want to be a nobody and never win a cup in St. Louis or he could want to come home, be the missing piece and become a legend in the process. Your argument is sound but I know what I would choose.

Why would he not get 8 to 10 doughty is a top3 petro is atop 5 10
He will get 8 to 10 your crazy if you think he won't. Man tor, sure has some delusional fans. Also petro wife has her family here why would he leave for him to travel 6 8 months a year tripletes

 

[Colt55]

Zero family support? He’s from Toronto. Also the big homie Carlo Coliacovo with his wife and young children who are close with AP and his wife are working behind the scenes. He’s not getting 8-10 hes more than likely getting a Ryan Mcdonagh type deal. He could absolutely just want to be a nobody and never win a cup in St. Louis or he could want to come home, be the missing piece and become a legend in the process. Your argument is sound but I know what I would choose.

Yeah it's called payday Tavares got his I know petro wants his. If doughty got 11 petro gets 9 minimum. Leafs will not have the cap blues will. They have Steen 5mil jaybo 5 mil gunner 4 mil, perron 4 mil, bozak 5 mil gone. Gotta love the csp

 

[BleedBlue14]

Zero family support? He’s from Toronto. Also the big homie Carlo Coliacovo with his wife and young children who are close with AP and his wife are working behind the scenes. He’s not getting 8-10 hes more than likely getting a Ryan Mcdonagh type deal. He could absolutely just want to be a nobody and never win a cup in St. Louis or he could want to come home, be the missing piece and become a legend in the process. Your argument is sound but I know what I would choose.

That is an extremely hot take my friend. I'm sure Carlo Coliacovo has a tremendous pull in taking the Pietrangelo's from St. Louis to Toronto. His wife is also a St. Louis girl. He deserves 8-10 after Doughty got 11 and I'm sure he will get it.

My bad, I may be doing this wrong. He just had triplets, does he want to take a McDonagh deal or a Doughty deal. He could just absolutely leave millions of dollars on the table and make his kids grow up broke, or he could remain the captain of a franchise that doesn't have a cup and become a legend in the process. your argument is sound but I know what I would choose.