TSN: STL Blues eyeballing Howard

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

So Bernier blows and looks like a huge mistake

Howard plays awesome and looks like he's keeping this team afloat

And the consensus is to trade Howard?

Ok

Howard will be too old to compete with our future core.
He is keeping the team afloat with that I agree, but if we can get good assets for him now (better than at the deadline) I say pull the trigger. Re-builds involve moving old players that have value. Howard has built up his value this season and I would trade him before his groin flares up again.

 

[Marky9er]

It looks like maybe Howard and Nyquist both will be in demand. It seems too good to be true, but remember what Tatar got? I think STL would be nuts to cave to it, but they might not want to wait if they hope to be a playoff team. Otherwise they will be joining us as a seller, and a big one.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

It looks like maybe Howard and Nyquist both will be in demand. It seems too good to be true, but remember what Tatar got? I think STL would be nuts to cave to it, but they might not want to wait if they hope to be a playoff team. Otherwise they will be joining us as a seller, and a big one.

Tatar had term left on his contract which Vegas viewed as a premium. If Holland got a Tatar level return for Howard I would seriously consider throwing all the money at him to stay here as GM forever.

These are the types of situations a GM should be looking for. A team in desperate need at a position you have strength in (or in this case a rebuild)
Making the playoffs is a huge revenue stream for the owners, Millions of dollars a game type of revenue so STL's GM may have added pressure to get something done.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Tatar had term left on his contract which Vegas viewed as a premium. If Holland got a Tatar level return for Howard I would seriously consider throwing all the money at him to stay here as GM forever.

These are the types of situations a GM should be looking for. A team in desperate need at a position you have strength in (or in this case a rebuild)
Making the playoffs is a huge revenue stream for the owners, Millions of dollars a game type of revenue so STL's GM may have added pressure to get something done.

I think Nyquist could get a similar return Tatar got despite being a UFA next year. For a team going for a cup he is a legit top 6ish dynamic player that is still young and can be apart of your future if you wish to sign him after considering the fit/performance.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Doesn't Howard have a NTC or NMC? Why would he waive that to go to STL? And with STL at the bottom of the league why do they NEED Howard on an expiring and given his age???

No Howards NTC/NMC ended last years, As of now he has no current clause. So he can be dealt anywhere that Holland deems fit.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Dreger suggested the return could be Kyrou or Thomas.. Not a snowball's chance in hell

Yeah Dreger is delusional if he thinks Armstrong would move either Kyrou or Thomas for Howard. I'd do something around a retained Howard for Jay Bouwmeester most Blues fans seem to like that notion.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Yeah Dreger is delusional if he thinks Armstrong would move either Kyrou or Thomas for Howard. I'd do something around a retained Howard for Jay Bouwmeester most Blues fans seem to like that notion.

An old already declined BowMr. for an old but solid starter in Howard, + retention?? You're underselling Howard & overvaluing JBo, then adding retention on top of it...STL is the desperate team here, not us. How many quality starters are available right now + retention for a ~ #5Dman? If Howard can't get at least a 2nd & 3rd by the TDL, it's better to hold onto him for the sake of the kids development. Unless Bernier just takes the reigns, then maybe just a 2nd by TDL. JBo does nothing for us, if anything, we need to get rid of a Daley/BigE/Jensen to make room for Hronek by the TDL, he should be ready.

 

[Marky9er]

Tatar had term left on his contract which Vegas viewed as a premium. If Holland got a Tatar level return for Howard I would seriously consider throwing all the money at him to stay here as GM forever.

These are the types of situations a GM should be looking for. A team in desperate need at a position you have strength in (or in this case a rebuild)
Making the playoffs is a huge revenue stream for the owners, Millions of dollars a game type of revenue so STL's GM may have added pressure to get something done.

Good points.

Can Howard, and/or Nyquist also be viewed as premium assets? Does retaining 50% achieve that?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

An old already declined BowMr. for an old but solid starter in Howard, + retention?? You're underselling Howard & overvaluing JBo, then adding retention on top of it...STL is the desperate team here, not us. How many quality starters are available right now + retention for a ~ #5Dman? If Howard can't get at least a 2nd & 3rd by the TDL, it's better to hold onto him for the sake of the kids development. Unless Bernier just takes the reigns, then maybe just a 2nd by TDL. JBo does nothing for us, if anything, we need to get rid of a Daley/BigE/Jensen to make room for Hronek by the TDL, he should be ready.

Yeah i see your point, If we were to take on Bouwmeester we'd definitely not be retaining on Howard no need to. As it would fit both teams salary wise. I'd rather have one of the Blues D prospects+pick and call it a day.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Good points.

Can Howard, and/or Nyquist also be viewed as premium assets? Does retaining 50% achieve that?

Retention on Howard could be mandatory due to the salary cap if we were to trade him before the deadline.
I dont think I'd call Howard a premium asset. More so looking to capitalize on a STL team in need of a starter to make the playoffs and seizing the opportunity to take advantage.
Nyquist holds great value without retention but at 50% i'm sure the list of teams that want him will increase. More
buyers = higher payout.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

I think Nyquist could get a similar return Tatar got despite being a UFA next year. For a team going for a cup he is a legit top 6ish dynamic player that is still young and can be apart of your future if you wish to sign him after considering the fit/performance.

I agree, best case is a bidding war at the deadline. I'd be happy with a late 1st or 2nd + 3rd for him.
With the amount of picks we have in this upcoming draft I have to wonder if Holland will be looking for prospects instead of picks though.

 

[jkutswings]

With the amount of picks we have in this upcoming draft I have to wonder if Holland will be looking for prospects instead of picks though.

Maybe. But there's also the chance of loading up on picks, then packaging a few to get a second impact player in the first round. A lot of that depends on how the top 10-15 prospects do over the next six months, and any deals done long before the TDL won't have that aspect in mind. But if Detroit still has both Howard and Nyquist in February - and there's shaping up to be an otherwise top 5ish prospect falling (maybe an injury that isn't likely to have long term consequences), then it's at least an option.

 

[kliq]

I would trade anyone not named Larkin or Cholowski if the return was greater ( and younger) than our current asset.

Do you mean on the roster? Or in the system? I'm just wondering if you are referring to Zadina.

 

[newfy]

An old already declined BowMr. for an old but solid starter in Howard, + retention?? You're underselling Howard & overvaluing JBo, then adding retention on top of it...STL is the desperate team here, not us. How many quality starters are available right now + retention for a ~ #5Dman? If Howard can't get at least a 2nd & 3rd by the TDL, it's better to hold onto him for the sake of the kids development. Unless Bernier just takes the reigns, then maybe just a 2nd by TDL. JBo does nothing for us, if anything, we need to get rid of a Daley/BigE/Jensen to make room for Hronek by the TDL, he should be ready.

Theres no way in a rebuild that the wings trade Howard for a 35 year old bottom pair dman. They would either take picks or a dman prospect that projects to be a number 4 or 5 dman instead of taking the 35 year old one. I agree, Daley, Ericcson and Jensen are already blocking Hronek and even Hicketts/Sulak can play in the NHL. The wings dont need more 35 year old depth guys. Even if they got a 2nd or 3rd round pick, theres still a chance it turns out better than JBo, Jbo is absolutely useless to the wings in every sense of the word

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Maybe. But there's also the chance of loading up on picks, then packaging a few to get a second impact player in the first round. A lot of that depends on how the top 10-15 prospects do over the next six months, and any deals done long before the TDL won't have that aspect in mind. But if Detroit still has both Howard and Nyquist in February - and there's shaping up to be an otherwise top 5ish prospect falling (maybe an injury that isn't likely to have long term consequences), then it's at least an option.

Then the question is, what is the amount of draft picks a team can hold before they retain negative value?
Does holding say 15 picks lower their value based off things such as the 50 man contract limit?

Trading up is a fantastic option. The Wings have so much depth but we lack the higher tier talent. We could trade up and hope to hit on higher picks, or do we hoard them and hope to hit on more selections?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

from ESPN via Kuklas Korner...

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

from ESPN via Kuklas Korner...

View attachment 159177View attachment 159177

Imagine a world where Howard draws a bidding war before the deadline.
I can dream of the accelerated rebuild.... dont tell me i cant! xD

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

I would trade anyone not named Larkin or Cholowski if the return was greater ( and younger) than our current asset.

If you think you're getting anything substantial for Howard I've got bad news for you...

Do you understand how rebuilds work?

If you think you're getting anything substantial for Howard I've got bad news for you...

1) You can't trade Bernier for anything. He's got no value. Howard, because he's playing so well, has value.

2) Dreger is tossing out names like Jordan Kyrou or Robert Thomas. I'd deal Howard today to land talent like those guys, especially considering he's a pending UFA. Now I don't trust that valuation, but if you can get anything close to that, you're almost a fool not to. I mean, the Lions traded Golden Tate for a 3rd and it was actually a good, level-headed future sighted move. They didn't expect it would kill them as bad as it did, but it was still a better move because they weren't going to be able to re-sign him for a palatable deal.

3) Much as I'm loath to admit it, it is a better idea for the Wings to fall back in the standings a tad. Actually do love Howard a lot and don't want them to trade him... but if you can get great value for him AND we get a better shot at Jack Hughes, I can't reasonably argue against it.

Most Blues fans I've seen are scratching their heads or hollering hell nah. We're not getting one of their better prospects for an aging goalie with past health issues, who might not return for them next year. We'd most likely have to take back Jake Allen in return. Which likely means a 1 for 1 swap or something like Allen + Nolan for Howard. If you think that kind of deal drives a rebuild forward then we will have to just agree to disagree. Dreger is just stirring the pot and ya'll buy it hook line n sinker. Howard's not going anywhere this season.

Howard will be too old to compete with our future core.
He is keeping the team afloat with that I agree, but if we can get good assets for him now (better than at the deadline) I say pull the trigger. Re-builds involve moving old players that have value. Howard has built up his value this season and I would trade him before his groin flares up again.

I really don't think we are going to get the kind of return ya'll seem to be expecting for Howard... For that reason I think it's 100 times more likely the Wings will air on the side of stability and re-sign Howard and push forward.

 

[lilidk]

I think Nyquist could get a similar return Tatar got despite being a UFA next year. For a team going for a cup he is a legit top 6ish dynamic player that is still young and can be apart of your future if you wish to sign him after considering the fit/performance.

no way its going to happened , we simply got lucky . Vegas has so many prospects , they don't know what to do with them

 

[Go Wings]

St. Louis biggest problem is their goaltending, by far, relatively, to any team.

Imo they should overpay, they still have lots of young talent on less meaningless position

They arent going to give up one of their 2 best prospects for Jimmy Howard. A pick maybe 2nd round and a mid level prospect is fair.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Yeah Dreger is delusional if he thinks Armstrong would move either Kyrou or Thomas for Howard.

IMO, it becomes more realistic if the Blues want Jake Allen and his cap hit for the next 2+ years going the other way.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If you think you're getting anything substantial for Howard I've got bad news for you...



If you think you're getting anything substantial for Howard I've got bad news for you...



Most Blues fans I've seen are scratching their heads or hollering hell nah. We're not getting one of their better prospects for an aging goalie with past health issues, who might not return for them next year. We'd most likely have to take back Jake Allen in return. Which likely means a 1 for 1 swap or something like Allen + Nolan for Howard. If you think that kind of deal drives a rebuild forward then we will have to just agree to disagree. Dreger is just stirring the pot and ya'll buy it hook line n sinker. Howard's not going anywhere this season.



I really don't think we are going to get the kind of return ya'll seem to be expecting for Howard... For that reason I think it's 100 times more likely the Wings will air on the side of stability and re-sign Howard and push forward.

Yeah and? My whole post was predicated on the fact that the Blues do something stupid. I’m far beyond giving a damn what fan bases ask for a guy. I said “if they’re actually willing to give up Kyoru or Thomas, I do it tomorrow. If they’re not, I want to keep Howard”. If you went by fanbase demands, Toronto would be beating off several offers of legit #1Dmen for William Nylander and Taylor Hall wouldn’t have gone for Adam Larsson. If STL is desperate and looking, I’m not going to say no to talking to them.

It’s not even that I expect a blow the doors off type return. That’s what it would take for me to wholesale jump behind dealing him.

I really like Howard. But I’m also pragmatic. If a desperate ass team comes calling I’m sure answering that call.

That being said, I agree Howard is probably going nowhere.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

They arent going to give up one of their 2 best prospects for Jimmy Howard. A pick maybe 2nd round and a mid level prospect is fair.

Yep if we can get a 2nd+ mid level prospect for Jimmy with retention, You make that deal 10/10 times.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

IMO, it becomes more realistic if the Blues want Jake Allen and his cap hit for the next 2+ years going the other way.

Yeah if we were to take on Jake Allen's salary for the next 2+ years, Then i would tend to think that it would be a little pricier for Armstrong then.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Also we should try to trade Howard fast before he gets inevitable hurt again. His groin is made of bubblegum.