TSN: STL Blues eyeballing Howard

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Yes. I am saying you are stupid. I am saying I am stupid. I am saying Frk It is stupid. When it comes to running a team and knowing how pieces will all fit together, we are stupid. Pretty universally, the Golden Knights were like "ah, they might be okay at best, but almost definitely cellar dwellers" last year. And they happened to be a series away from a Cup.

And frankly, on here, ANY trade involving a well-known player who hasn't SUPER BUSTED is going to be a HELL NAW from the team giving him up and a HELL YES from the team acquiring him.

Almost to a man, people thought that Vanek was worth a 1st rounder in 2016. Everything pointed to it. He got traded for a 3rd and McIlrath.

Everyone said Kindl was untradeable garbage. He was dealt for a 6th. Everyone said Brendan Smith was untradeable garbage. He was dealt for a 2nd and a 3rd.

Everyone thought we would trade through the ****ing nose to get rid of Pavel Datsyuk's contract. We ended up dropping four spots and taking a guy who looks to be tracking towards being a better player than Chychrun AND got a 2nd that we used for Hronek who acquitted himself quite well in his cup of coffee early in the year.

So yes, I think pretty much all fans in terms of player development, movement, and general managings of a team... are stupid.

Crappy trade suggestion or not, if St. Louis is sniffing around, I let them make me an offer. I don't have to trade Howard for peanuts if I don't want to. But if they think getting Howard can save their season, they might cough up more than is justified.

I'll stop you at the boded, primarily because I'm not sure if I'm following you. Can you elaborate? Trade suggestions are not always met with a clear hell nah or hell yeah from either side, which IMO would indicate that it's probably bordering on a fair deal. This one was met with a clear hell yeah and hell nah... which is why I'd suggest that Dregers lil rumor was an unrealistic one. That doesn't mean we CAN'T trade Howard... I just think trading Howard is already unlikely, and even less likely in this particular trading scenario set up by Dreger.

Sounds like you need to stop listening to the BS narratives this fanbase espouses. I got raked over the coals for years for calling Mrazek a crap goalie back in 2016 and onward. I'm no genius, but in that instance I turned out to be right. I've already been raked over the coals on this board for speaking critically about Filip Zadina. The mob is a good gauge on a lot of broad topics... but the mob also gets swept up in weird narratives quite often.

 

[The Zermanator]

Howard+Nyquist+Jensen+5th? for Parayko, get 'er done Kenny. I'm sure the Blues wouldn't trade him, but he could be our defensive rock (like DDK was supposed to be) for a decade. RHS, big, mobile, minute muncher etc.

Blues lost some depth in the ROR trade, this would solidify them a good bit at each position. We could retain 50% on Howard & omit Nyquist, which would be even better.

Yeah like others have said no way Blues bite on this. But there are some good starting points in your proposal.

These are the assets I'd be willing to part with in this deal:
- Howard 50% retained
- Nyquist
- Green
- Svechnikov
- Hronek

Obviously that's not one package, just a collection of players to put a package together. And I'd be willing to go as high as a 2nd rd pick to throw in, no 1sts.

So something like Howard at 50% + Nyquist + Green + 3rd for Parayko + 2nd.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah like others have said no way Blues bite on this. But there are some good starting points in your proposal.

These are the assets I'd be willing to part with in this deal:
- Howard 50% retained
- Nyquist
- Green
- Svechnikov
- Hronek

Obviously that's not one package, just a collection of players to put a package together. And I'd be willing to go as high as a 2nd rd pick to throw in, no 1sts.

So something like Howard at 50% + Nyquist + Green + 3rd for Parayko + 2nd.

And you're not going to get him.

To trade Parayko, the Blues would have to be pulling the chute on this roster. In which case, they're not trading for Jimmy Howard.

Also, Howard at 50%, Nyquist, and Green are 12.775M going out to STL. Parayko is making like 5.75, right? Blues don't have the cap space.


Lastly? There is no way a trade to get Parayko doesn't include a 1st if the other pieces are what you are okay giving up.

Basically, for the items that you are offering, you have literally no chance at prying Parayko away. Howard and Nyquist are pending UFA rentals. Green has one year on his deal. Svechnikov is a prospect that nobody is entirely certain what he is. Hronek is probably the best long term piece you're offering.

 

[jkutswings]

And you're not going to get him.

To trade Parayko, the Blues would have to be pulling the chute on this roster. In which case, they're not trading for Jimmy Howard.

Also, Howard at 50%, Nyquist, and Green are 12.775M going out to STL. Parayko is making like 5.75, right? Blues don't have the cap space.


Lastly? There is no way a trade to get Parayko doesn't include a 1st if the other pieces are what you are okay giving up.

Basically, for the items that you are offering, you have literally no chance at prying Parayko away. Howard and Nyquist are pending UFA rentals. Green has one year on his deal. Svechnikov is a prospect that nobody is entirely certain what he is. Hronek is probably the best long term piece you're offering.

I like your thinking, but then balance this equation (or state that there isn't a balance that can be made):

To Detroit: Parayko

To St Louis: Howard (50% retained), Mantha, Hronek, 1st round pick in 2020


(And I'm not saying that this - or whatever else would be required to balance it out - would be a great trade. I'm just trying to lead discussions towards what would probably be equal value, for general awareness in the thread.)

 

[Bench]

Jake Allen is on one of his hot streaks right now. 1.22 GAA and .942 sv% his last 5 starts. The more he keeps that up, the less they will want to trade. But his season totals are pretty bad overall.

I can definitely see why the Blues are interested and it feels like a good fit. But boy does that leave the Wings with a shakey net. On one hand, this team is rebuilding so trade your vet goalie. On the other hand, the morale hit to the team would be pretty significant if Bernier can't step up.

 

[Henkka]

Then the question is, what is the amount of draft picks a team can hold before they retain negative value?
Does holding say 15 picks lower their value based off things such as the 50 man contract limit?

It has very small impact. Having draft picks isn't having contracts yet. And you can spread them out o college guys and eurooeans/late blooming projects, so thw singnings won't hapoen on same time.

And more guys you have, you can let weakest links go earlier. Imo, it just creates greater competition and more of an positive effect.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I like your thinking, but then balance this equation (or state that there isn't a balance that can be made):

To Detroit: Parayko

To St Louis: Howard (50% retained), Mantha, Hronek, 1st round pick in 2020


(And I'm not saying that this - or whatever else would be required to balance it out - would be a great trade. I'm just trying to lead discussions towards what would probably be equal value, for general awareness in the thread.)

I doubt KH would trade Mantha and/or Hronek for Parayko and all the other assets you listed...I doubt any GM would...maybe I'm crazy to think that.

Parayko is a 25 yr. old #2/#3 Dman who is good defensively & averages ~ 35 pts/yr. So not a #1 on most teams, but a decent #2 or great #3. He is also 2 yrs away from UFA iirc. I'd do Howard (50% ret) + Green (50% ret) + lottery protected 1st (top5), would be my Max offer, otherwise it's not worth it. There's a huge risk with UFA....whereas, as others have mentioned Blues are in a conundrum, with a good roster, but their window is now and upto ~2-3yrs max, then Petro & Parayko hit UFA. Hronek & Mantha should be kept, too much upside and they're a part of our young core, which is bereft of elite talent. If they didn't wanna trade for a protected 1st, then I'd do Howard (upto 50%) & 1st + Jensen. If I had to "throw in Nyquist", I'd do that too.

 

[Sentinel]

So Bernier blows and looks like a huge mistake

Howard plays awesome and looks like he's keeping this team afloat

And the consensus is to trade Howard?

Ok

Which goalie was pulled in the last game?

 

[Sentinel]

If we merge our two clubs into one (Blue Wings?), we might have a shot at the Cup.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

If we merge our two clubs into one (Blue Wings?), we might have a shot at the Cup.

 

[SCD]

Do you mean on the roster? Or in the system? I'm just wondering if you are referring to Zadina.

I would say system wide. I don't see Zadina in the untouchable class. However, the return would have to high.

I think it is a red flag for a seller to move prospects.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Which goalie was pulled in the last game?

To be fair, Howard ended up with a better SV% in that game. .813 vs Bernier's .800.

 

[korrowan]

Which goalie was pulled in the last game?

Not relevant. They pulled Howard because the entire team was playing like trash in front of him and did it for a shakeup.

 

[The Zermanator]

And you're not going to get him.

To trade Parayko, the Blues would have to be pulling the chute on this roster. In which case, they're not trading for Jimmy Howard.

Also, Howard at 50%, Nyquist, and Green are 12.775M going out to STL. Parayko is making like 5.75, right? Blues don't have the cap space.


Lastly? There is no way a trade to get Parayko doesn't include a 1st if the other pieces are what you are okay giving up.

Basically, for the items that you are offering, you have literally no chance at prying Parayko away. Howard and Nyquist are pending UFA rentals. Green has one year on his deal. Svechnikov is a prospect that nobody is entirely certain what he is. Hronek is probably the best long term piece you're offering.

Well obviously I can't speak for Holland and Armstrong. Maybe it gets rejected outright, sure. But NHL trades don't happen like the video games. It's a negotiation, not a yes or no.

I believe that with those pieces up there, the is a combination that can get Parayko in Detroit. Maybe Green is replaced by Hronek, and Detroit's pick changes to a 2nd without St Louis sending any pic (Would make it Howard 50% + Nyquist + Hronek + 2nd for Parayko straight up). Could even involve us riding Allen's remaining contract years, who knows?

Just saying I think the pieces are there. So if the need and desire are there on St Louis' part, I would love to see Parayko in Detroit.

 

[FMichael]

So Bernier blows and looks like a huge mistake

Howard plays awesome and looks like he's keeping this team afloat

And the consensus is to trade Howard?

Ok

Trade Howard for prospect/s, or draft pick/s...He can always get re-signed this summer.

Of course Jimmy would have to agree to it all, but it would not surprise me if he would accept a trade to a team with playoff potential.

 

[GMR]

Why do the Blues always want Detroit's mediocre goaltenders?

 

[FMichael]

I kinda like it.

 

[FMichael]

Why do the Blues always want Detroit's mediocre goaltenders?

Holland is using Jedi Mind Tricks...

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Holland is using Jedi Mind Tricks...

Exactly, KH is on a hot streak in 2018. Besides Howard is better than Allen apparently who's on a better team

 

[Sentinel]

Not relevant. They pulled Howard because the entire team was playing like trash in front of him and did it for a shakeup.

Sure. Whatever.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Well obviously I can't speak for Holland and Armstrong. Maybe it gets rejected outright, sure. But NHL trades don't happen like the video games. It's a negotiation, not a yes or no.

I believe that with those pieces up there, the is a combination that can get Parayko in Detroit. Maybe Green is replaced by Hronek, and Detroit's pick changes to a 2nd without St Louis sending any pic (Would make it Howard 50% + Nyquist + Hronek + 2nd for Parayko straight up). Could even involve us riding Allen's remaining contract years, who knows?

Just saying I think the pieces are there. So if the need and desire are there on St Louis' part, I would love to see Parayko in Detroit.

The problem with this premise is the whole reason they want Howard is that they think he will do more for them in 2018 than Allen. If they are trading for Howard, they are trying to win this year. And that deal definitely doesn’t improve them for now and it’s close to a tossup that it would for the future as Howie and Nyquist can walk at the end of the deal, Hronek is no sure bet to come close to replacing Parayko and a 2nd is just generic filler when you don’t want to deal a first.

The need or desire is there for Howard because they’re not pulling the chute on the season. If they were, they’d have no interest in Howard and you’d be looking at a package involving more futures.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Which goalie was pulled in the last game?

Hey, this Patrick Roy guy gave up like 9 goals to Detroit. Montreal should trade him.

Goalies have off nights all the time. A guy getting pulled in a game where he’s playing badly is completely irrelevant unless he continues to get pulled game after game.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I like your thinking, but then balance this equation (or state that there isn't a balance that can be made):

To Detroit: Parayko

To St Louis: Howard (50% retained), Mantha, Hronek, 1st round pick in 2020


(And I'm not saying that this - or whatever else would be required to balance it out - would be a great trade. I'm just trying to lead discussions towards what would probably be equal value, for general awareness in the thread.)

Just getting back to this. The premise for the trade falls apart if Howard is a key part of the package.

They would be trying to improve goalie with a rental because they think they can make the playoffs. They would therefore not be looking for futures. They would need a guy who can replace Parayko right now and Hronek or the 2020 1st can’t do that. And Mantha isn’t a big enough bump over their top 4 wings to justify dealing away a good defenseman like Parayko.

If they were pulling the chute on the season a trade for futures would be more likely, but that would rule out dealing for Howard as he’s a UFA rental.

 

[Claypool]

To Detroit: Parayko

To St Louis: Howard (50% retained), Mantha, Hronek, 1st round pick in 2020

Horrible trade proposal. Parayko is not that good.

 

[kliq]

I would say system wide. I don't see Zadina in the untouchable class. However, the return would have to high.

I think it is a red flag for a seller to move prospects.

That's fair, I would say any player is available for the right price.