TSN: Steve Simmons argues on air over Grabo and Bolland

[The Winter Soldier]

Well, if you think his subtraction was the only thing that makes the Leafs worse, it stands to reason to look at his impact on his new club. And the Caps got worse with him.

The argument he is making is we missed his 16 points last year, and -10. Then we missed his -10 in the playoffs and useless 2 points.

This is why we got worse last year according to his logic, I know it is incredible.

 

[leafs in five]

got worse because we got rid of a players that were better than the ones we brought in. i can't remember whether you think the Leafs are a good winning team right now. in any event you've been right about it all along.

 

[Stephen]

The argument he is making is we missed his 16 points last year, and -10. Then we missed his -10 in the playoffs and useless 2 points.

This is why we got worse last year according to his logic, I know it is incredible.

I'm just exasperated the Excel people have taken on the Grabo as a cause celebre for their research. Grabo sucks, his teams suck and yet somehow his puck hogging, tunnel vision ways has somehow translated into a completely skewed statistical footprint that is now getting trotted out all over the internet.

 

[Bomber0104]

I'm just exasperated the Excel people have taken on the Grabo as a cause celebre for their research. Grabo sucks, his teams suck and yet somehow his puck hogging, tunnel vision ways has somehow translated into a completely skewed statistical footprint that is now getting trotted out all over the internet.

Brilliantly worded.

 

[leafs in five]

i do think GF% seems like a meaningful stat. maybe not as meaningful as "2 point games after long scoreless streaks" or "empty calorie points"

 

[Stephen]

i do think GF% seems like a meaningful stat. maybe not as meaningful as "2 point games after long scoreless streaks" or "empty calorie points"

Oh, and what did his teams do with his brilliant GF%?

Why don't we look at the fact that Washington missed the playoffs and is walking away from him and a rumored destination is Edmonton?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm just exasperated the Excel people have taken on the Grabo as a cause celebre for their research. Grabo sucks, his teams suck and yet somehow his puck hogging, tunnel vision ways has somehow translated into a completely skewed statistical footprint that is now getting trotted out all over the internet.

I'm still waiting for him to prove me wrong, when I said if Grabovski is one of your top 2 Centers, you are not making the playoffs.

Mikhail is 30 going on 31 next year. Maybe one day he will, but don't count on it.

 

[Duke Silver]

The argument he is making is we missed his 16 points last year, and -10. Then we missed his -10 in the playoffs and useless 2 points.

This is why we got worse last year according to his logic, I know it is incredible.

How many times must you be reminded that Grabo's minuses in the playoffs were pretty much completely unrelated to his play?

Yet you continue to use that as a crutch for your argument, willingly ignoring the facts.

Just more misinformation from someone with a clear axe to grind.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

How many times must you be reminded that Grabo's -10 in the playoffs was pretty much completely unrelated to his play?

Yet you continue to use that as a crutch for your argument, willingly ignoring the facts.

Just more misinformation from someone with a clear axe to grind.

Did you say unrelated to his play? This brilliant 35 point center last year, career high 58 point center with a 48 point career average sure is to blame. And even if you do not think he is, surely if he was as good as you think he was. Even his biggest defender would say he was part of a line that was destroyed by Krejci. Thus He didn't produce like a 5.5 Center.

How else do you explain his terrible play? His line mates, always someone else is to blame other than Mikhail. As for my axe, not really, I just think he stinks.

 

[Stephen]

How many times must you be reminded that Grabo's minuses in the playoffs were pretty much completely unrelated to his play?

Yet you continue to use that as a crutch for your argument, willingly ignoring the facts.

Just more misinformation from someone with a clear axe to grind.

Unrelated to his play? They tried to put him in a Bergeron type role in game seven and he coughed up a fur ball.

 

[Duke Silver]

Did you say unrelated to his play? Yeah I thought so. This brilliant 35 point center, career high 58 point center with a 48 point career average sure is to blame. And even if you do not think he is, surely if he was as good as you think he was. He didn't produce like a 5.5 Center.

How else do you explain his terrible play? His line mates. I knew it, always someone else is to blame other than Mikhail. As for my axe, no, I just think he stinks.

The point is that you keep using this -10 as some sort of grand indication of poor play in the playoffs.

By the way, using plus/minus as a crutch for any argument? Weak beyond belief.

Watch the god damn videos provided in my post and show me where Grabo can be held at fault for the goals he was on the ice for. Go ahead. I'll wait.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The point is that you keep using this -10 as some sort of grand indication of poor play in the playoffs.

Watch the god damn videos provided in my post and show me where Grabo can be held at fault for the goals he was on the ice for. Go ahead. I'll wait.

He was on the ice, he was part of it. Including the OT series winning goal because he couldn't clear the puck. He stinks, just admit it. The guy has never won a thing as a top 6 player.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Unrelated to his play? They tried to put him in a Bergeron type role in game seven and he coughed up a fur ball.

It's no use Stephen, are we in the twilight zone?

 

[Duke Silver]

He was on the ice, he was part of it.

And that, ladies and gentlemen of HFBoards, is the epitome of willful ignorance.

I've said it before and I will say it again: It is absolutely unbelievable, the lengths to which you will go to distort reality to make a point. I'm flabbergasted at that statement.

But by all means, keep using +/- in your arguments. Who needs context.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the epitome of willful ignorance.

I've said it before and I will say it again: It is absolute unbelievable, the lengths to which you will distort reality to make a point. I'm flabbergasted at that statement.

OK if you can tell me why Grabovkski did well in those playoffs, heck the entire season. Maybe you will add some credibility to your claims.

Just a point, Grabo trying hard, Grabo is a warrior, Grabo has supposed heart is not a reason why he was a difference maker for us.

How did he help us in the Boston series, all I saw was Krejci throughly take him to school.

The one thing that stood out to me was the Grabovski icing in game 6, when he tried to pad his stats into an empty net, Boston scored off that face-off in the last min, and almost tied the game the last 20 seconds.

How did that help out team? Go ahead I am listening.

 

[The Apologist]

And that, ladies and gentlemen of HFBoards, is the epitome of willful ignorance.

I've said it before and I will say it again: It is absolutely unbelievable, the lengths to which you will go to distort reality to make a point. I'm flabbergasted at that statement.

But by all means, keep using +/- in your arguments. Who needs context.

its probably just **** luckthat the Bruins got so many goals off rushes while he was on the ice

 

[Duke Silver]

OK if you can tell me why Grabovkski did well in those playoffs, heck the entire season. Maybe you will add some credibility to your claims.

Just a point, Grabo trying hard, Grabo is a warrior, Grabo has supposed heart is not a reason why he was a difference maker for us.

How did he help us in the Boston series, all I saw was Krejci throughly take him to school.

The one thing that stood out to me was the Grabovski icing in game 6, when he tried to pad his stats into an empty net, Boston scored off that face-off in the last min, and almost tied the game the last 20 seconds.

How did that help out team? Go ahead I am listening.

I'll go ahead and humour you right after you watch that video evidence I provided you of why it is completely inaccurate to use +/- to disparage Grabovski's play in the playoffs.

Go ahead, find fault with Grabovski from the videos provided. They're all right there in the post.

Hell I don't know why I try, you won't watch them because you know it's easier to hide behind inaccurate statistics than to evaluate the video and attribute context. You've been provided with this on multiple occasions and each time you dodge the issue.

Go ahead, prove me wrong. The videos are easily accessible and at your fingertips. Put that hyper-analytical mind of yours to use.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I am thinking should I even bother.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

its probably just **** luckthat the Bruins got so many goals off rushes while he was on the ice

Like I said, he's never at fault to his defenders, Grabovski is just the unluckiest 35 point player in the NHL to them.

 

[Duke Silver]

I am thinking should I even bother.

Thought so.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Thought so.

Thought what, I am waiting for you to tell me why you think Grabovski played well against Boston. Can you back up your claim? Right now -10, 2 meaningless points plus the 2 examples I gave you is making the stronger point.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This is Tiring But

DukeSilver I want you to watch this video.

Who is most at fault for this Boston goal?

The guy who iced it? The guy who failed to clear the puck?

 

[Henderson19]

What's crazy?

Randy buried Grabo on the third line all season, then criticized him publicly for not producing.

Selective memory dominates this thread.

 

[The Legend]

Brilliantly worded.

You heard the phrase "excel people" and your first thought was "brilliantly worded"?

 

[The Legend]

What about quantitative analysis like this:

2008-09 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL Northeast 82 34 35 0 6 7 81 0.494 250 293 1125 19312 Ron Wilson Out of Playoffs

2009-10 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL Northeast 82 30 38 0 10 4 74 0.451 214 267 1091 19260 Ron Wilson Out of Playoffs

2010-11 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL Northeast 82 37 34 0 5 6 85 0.518 218 251 985 19354 Ron Wilson Out of Playoffs

2011-12 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL Northeast 82 35 37 0 5 5 80 0.488 231 264 0 19507 Wilson, Carlyle **+} Out of Playoffs

2013-14 Washington Capitals NHL Metropolitan 82 38 30 0 3 11 90 0.549 235 240 0 18506 Adam Oates

If you're relying on Grabovski to play a top six role for your club, it means that a) you're not a successful club to begin with and b) you're not going to be a successful club with him in that kind of role. That's half a decade of statistical evidence.

How about the smell test? You know, like how the Washington Capitals aren't interested in bringing back this gem of a player?

Surely you must realize that quantitative analysis of a player is more detailed than simply pulling out wins and losses?