TSN: Steve Simmons argues on air over Grabo and Bolland

[11111111111]

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[sniper81]

I can't recall one advanced stats proponent supporting the Clarkson signing. Not Dellow, not Mirtle, not the writers at PPP. Burtch wrote, shortly after the signing: "In summary, I'm pretty damn certain that Clarkson's contract is a ridiculous over-payment in terms of both term AND money." This was the consensus 'advanced stats' view, but fans of 'grit, character, and heart' were fans of Clarkson.

Clarkson had very good advanced stats in NJ. PPP and Burtch are a joke anyways.

 

[Jacob8hockey*]

I can't recall one advanced stats proponent supporting the Clarkson signing. Not Dellow, not Mirtle, not the writers at PPP. Burtch wrote, shortly after the signing: "In summary, I'm pretty damn certain that Clarkson's contract is a ridiculous over-payment in terms of both term AND money." This was the consensus 'advanced stats' view, but fans of 'grit, character, and heart' were fans of Clarkson.

Still doesn't change that the advanced stats had Clarkson as a higher end player than he really is.

 

[11111111111]

Still doesn't change that the advanced stats had Clarkson as a higher end player than he really is.

Would you say that "ridiculous over-payment" in both money and in term is too kind an assessment?

If you look solely at one advanced stat, Clarkson may seem to be better than he is. No one does that, though. The advanced stats community, as a whole, knew the signing was bad, but you're claiming that the community ought to be discredited because the signing was bad? It seems like advanced stats reach the same conclusion about Clarkson you've reached, especially once you've adjusted for context, which most advanced stats writers do.

But I'm not here to win you over regarding advanced stats. Believe what you like, just don't pretend that David Clarkson is evidence that advanced stats writers don't know what they're talking about.

 

[34]

Who would've guessed that Bolland was going to ask for 5 million a year?

No body specially considering he's never even seen the 80 game mark once.

He is just following suit with Clarkson and Phaneuf. Nonis is an easy target for giving garbage players BIG contracts.

Nonis is the one that needs to be fired.

 

[MrLegend28*]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this current window is the final window that teams can use compliance buyouts right?

Would have been really handy to have one to zap Clarkson's contract right now.

you cant use compliances on deals after the new cba..

 

[MrLegend28*]

its borderline pathetic how people judge players based on 1 year. Remember when Kessel was dealt here and the **** he got from uninformed leaf fans? and now everyone loves him. Meanwhile he killed it all 5 yrs hes here. Clarkson could be amazing the next 6 yrs and people would forget 1 year. Youre also the same group of people who wanted LUPUL!!!! to be our captain lmao.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

lmao, what a goof Simmons is. Mainstream journalism is a ****ing joke, guys like Simmons is the evidence

 

[Nasty Nazem]

What made no sense was using a compliance on Komisarek.

There was no reason to not use a normal buyout on him and save both for right now.

Compliance buyout should have been used on Liles and Komisarek. I find it hilarious neither of them were used on Liles who looked finished after the concussion and we ended up trading him mid-season for someone just as bad, Tim Gleason. Had to give up a 2nd rounder for Bolland when they could have kept Grabo, let go MacArthur and signed Clarkson to the worst contract in the league. Lots of cap to work with without Clarkson and Liles/Gleason.

Leafs made some really dumb moves last year and made the team a lot worse as a result.

 

[Celly Hard]

Simmonds is a baby and a fool. Everything he said was flawed loll, who cares if bolland scored one ****in goal in game 6 to win it? ITS ONE ****IN GOAL!! That is like his only argument.. Not to mention the fact that this fool is acting like a 1st grader yelling at the top of his lungs whenever the other guy is trying to get his opinion across.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Compliance buyout should have been used on Liles and Komisarek. I find it hilarious neither of them were used on Liles who looked finished after the concussion and we ended up trading him mid-season for someone just as bad, Tim Gleason. Had to give up a 2nd rounder for Bolland when they could have kept Grabo, let go MacArthur and signed Clarkson to the worst contract in the league. Lots of cap to work with without Clarkson and Liles/Gleason.

Leafs made some really dumb moves last year and made the team a lot worse as a result.

Komi had 1 year left.

Using a compliance on that was very short sighted.

He'd be off the books in a year with a very small cap hit each of the 2 seasons following his buyout.

Liles and Grabo were 4-5 year deals. That was what the compliance buyouts should have been for.

 

[happyaccident]

its borderline pathetic how people judge players based on 1 year. Remember when Kessel was dealt here and the **** he got from uninformed leaf fans? and now everyone loves him. Meanwhile he killed it all 5 yrs hes here. Clarkson could be amazing the next 6 yrs and people would forget 1 year. Youre also the same group of people who wanted LUPUL!!!! to be our captain lmao.

I'll fill you in on the difference between Clarkson and Kessel since you're obviously unaware of it.
One has actual talent and the other is Clarkson.
What a ludicrous comparison.

 

[PuckMagi]

is there an mp3 link to the second discussion?

 

[Gary Nylund]

its borderline pathetic how people judge players based on 1 year. Remember when Kessel was dealt here and the **** he got from uninformed leaf fans? and now everyone loves him. Meanwhile he killed it all 5 yrs hes here. Clarkson could be amazing the next 6 yrs and people would forget 1 year. Youre also the same group of people who wanted LUPUL!!!! to be our captain lmao.

Yeah right. Let me see, how to explain to you that this isn't going to happen. Ah, someone else has already done it. Here you go:

I'll fill you in on the difference between Clarkson and Kessel since you're obviously unaware of it.
One has actual talent and the other is Clarkson.
What a ludicrous comparison.

And there's your answer.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Buying out Grabo was a ****ing mistake. We lost Grabo, Mac, and Kuli because one guy just ONE guy: Carlyle

 

[Milan90]

Grabo isn't a 5m+ player no matter which way you slice it. The buyout was a great decision; the stupidity was signing Clarkson. I'd be happier without either of those two on our team at those salaries. If Grabo was willing to take a cut to 3m, I doubt he gets bought out.

And this is an insane amount of debate over a guy who's not even a difference maker.

 

[Stephen]

What do you guys think about the Oilers signing Grabovski and Kulemin and running a second line of Kulemin-Grabovski-Yakupov?

I really like the idea of trying to sign both of them but you guys sound like you don't care for Grabovski too much. MC79 has been advocating for the Oilers to sign both players for the past little while.

Grabo is a player who will put up junk offense on a have not team. He'll probably put up ok numbers in Edmonton and that team will keep on losing. Once they start improving they'll lose their appetite for keeping him. There are just loser players out there that fill up bad teams.

 

[leafs in five]

is junk offense the same as empty calorie offense?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

In the end, Simmons is right. Grabovski is a mediocrity of a hockey player, a total non factor in the win column. Especially in the playoffs.

If you needed advanced Stats to tell you that, you probably watched the games with a blindfold on.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Grabo is a player who will put up junk offense on a have not team. He'll probably put up ok numbers in Edmonton and that team will keep on losing. Once they start improving they'll lose their appetite for keeping him. There are just loser players out there that fill up bad teams.

He still has not made the playoffs as a top 6 center in the nhl. Something that some of us said is not a coincidence.

 

[Milan90]

Buying out Grabo was a ****ing mistake. We lost Grabo, Mac, and Kuli because one guy just ONE guy: Carlyle

Oh no! How will we deal with losing their combined 30 goals?!

Grabo was being paid 5m, left and didn't help Washington make the playoffs. MacArthur left and didn't help Ottawa make the playoffs. Stop clinging to these ****ing losers; they're decent assets and somehow people are debating their departure after a year. For Grabovski and MacArthur. It's ridiculous, it's like being pissed at Moore leaving.

 

[Teeder9]

Grabo is a player who will put up junk offense on a have not team. He'll probably put up ok numbers in Edmonton and that team will keep on losing. Once they start improving they'll lose their appetite for keeping him. There are just loser players out there that fill up bad teams.

We certainly know lots about that

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Oh no! How will we deal with losing their combined 30 goals?!

Grabo was being paid 5m, left and didn't help Washington make the playoffs. MacArthur left and didn't help Ottawa make the playoffs. Stop clinging to these ****ing losers; they're decent assets and somehow people are debating their departure after a year. For Grabovski and MacArthur. It's ridiculous, it's like being pissed at Moore leaving.

Some of us are still crying over losing Jason Blake, great possession player. Too bad he never wanted to play with anyone on his team.

I get upset too we let all these winners go.

 

[agropop]

Grabo is a player who will put up junk offense on a have not team. He'll probably put up ok numbers in Edmonton and that team will keep on losing. Once they start improving they'll lose their appetite for keeping him. There are just loser players out there that fill up bad teams.

This is the same narrative schlock Simmons is peddling. There's no such thing as junk offence, you're either out scoring your opposition or you're not. As Dellow pointed out, when he was on the ice the Caps got 58% GF. The teams record is not on his back, he gave them good hockey with the minutes he was given.

This narrative about winners and losers is low brow drivel, fodder for Simmons, Interactif, and apparently you.

 

[leafs in five]

Some of us are still crying over losing Jason Blake, great possession player. Too bad he never wanted to play with anyone on his team.

I get upset too we let all these winners go.

team is still terrible, for all the turnover, all the exchanging of losing players for winning ones.