We need a fire sale. Dump Kessler, getzlaf, rakell, fowler, and rebuild from there
He has a NMC/NTC bro. He is basically untradeable because of that. It's just reality. It's why BM needs to be more careful when giving those out in the future and only give them to 1D, 1C, goalie types. Franchise players.I can understand the hate against Fowler, but some of you are being ridiculous. Fowler would absolutely have suitors. Imagine him being your #2/3 as opposed to your #1? That's where he should be, and in Anaheim we are all waiting for Lindholm to be our #1.
we are in a bad place....its called limbo...a new direction from this organization should have been established about 2-3 years ago, but we have instead took a "wait and see" approach...THIS ISNT WORKING and its plain to see, I know BM knows this and I (am really a big fan of BM) lose more and more respect for the guy each passing day that he allows this to continue...there are some things we have always been able to point to (mainly injuries) for why this team is where they are/or could get over the hump...TURN the page and lets take a new direction, i would say a new head coach, but moving out players would be something too ( i think is the wrong way), but we cant just keep rolling this same crap out day after day, year after year.I try to convince myself that things have to get worse before they get better, and maybe I'm overreacting, but right now, it feels like we're in a bad place.
He has a NMC/NTC bro. He is basically untradeable because of that. It's just reality. It's why BM needs to be more careful when giving those out in the future and only give them to 1D, 1C, goalie types. Franchise players.
If he didn't have the NMC we could probably get rid of him tomorrow morning if we wanted to with minimal retention (if any).
I just looked it up. It's a modified NTC. So he would get to submit a list of 4 teams where he could be traded to.
No, the limited NMC absolutely prevents us from getting valuable assets for him. How does it not? He's a #3 making #2 money, signed for 7 years, and can control where he goes to the point where only 13% (4/31) of the teams in the league can even entertain a move for him. If you don't think that ruins the ability to get valuable assets for him...then wowSo what you're saying is that every point that you made prior to this is not relevant. Yes, he has a limited NMC which may limit the return but, that doesn't mean that his contract is so albatross that no one will want to give up valuable assets for him. My only point was that some posters are being ridiculous with the asinine statements.
Edit: And there are limited posters calling out Lindholm continuing to make strides. Like I stated in my earlier post, we've been waiting for him to supplant Fowler since last season...and we're still waiting.
No, the limited NMC absolutely prevents us from getting valuable assets for him. How does it not? He's a #3 making #2 money, signed for 7 years, and can control where he goes to the point where only 13% (4/31) of the teams in the league can even entertain a move for him. If you don't think that ruins the ability to get valuable assets for him...then wow
And Lindholm has surpassed him a while ago. Come on now. He's not a superstar either but he's a better player and has been for a couple years. I'm not sure anyone on these boards is going to agree that Cam is equal to Lindholm somehow.
Wait a minute, you originally said he was basically untradeable, which is simply not true. You can't move the goalposts in your argument now. You're right in that it prevents us from getting the maximum value in return, but it does not prevent us from getting valuable assets for him if that was the route that BM wanted to go. It only takes 2 teams to create a bidding war, and you can't say with any confidence that he would pick four teams that don't have valuable assets that they're willing to trade.
Fowler is a #3? Sure, on San Jose where he would be behind Burns and Karlsson, or in Nashville where he'd be behind Josi and Subban. Honestly, can you name 62 defenseman that you would take over him? I'll answer that for you, no, you can't unless you're flat out lying.
As for the bolded, that's simply your opinion and not a fact and it's completely fair to have that opinion. However, Cam has been deployed as the shutdown pairing against top lines consistently(with ****ing Kevin Bieksa at times as his partner) , by mutiple coaches with a hockey brain far superior to you or I. Surely they're not all idiots. I'm going to trust those far smarter than me in their field then myself as an armchair coach. That's your #1 defenseman. That's Cam, not Lindholm. I love Lindholm, but when asked to put on his big boy pants, he has consistently failed. This team needs Lindholm to be the #1, because we all agree that Fowler is much more suited for the #2 role or carrying a 2nd pairing.
I actually think I can name 62 I’d take over Cam right now, I just don’t have the energy right now. I’ll try as many as I can which I’m sure won’t be good enoughWait a minute, you originally said he was basically untradeable, which is simply not true. You can't move the goalposts in your argument now. You're right in that it prevents us from getting the maximum value in return, but it does not prevent us from getting valuable assets for him if that was the route that BM wanted to go. It only takes 2 teams to create a bidding war, and you can't say with any confidence that he would pick four teams that don't have valuable assets that they're willing to trade.
Fowler is a #3? Sure, on San Jose where he would be behind Burns and Karlsson, or in Nashville where he'd be behind Josi and Subban. Honestly, can you name 62 defenseman that you would take over him? I'll answer that for you, no, you can't unless you're flat out lying.
As for the bolded, that's simply your opinion and not a fact and it's completely fair to have that opinion. However, Cam has been deployed as the shutdown pairing against top lines consistently(with ****ing Kevin Bieksa at times as his partner) , by mutiple coaches with a hockey brain far superior to you or I. Surely they're not all idiots. I'm going to trust those far smarter than me in their field then myself as an armchair coach. That's your #1 defenseman. That's Cam, not Lindholm. I love Lindholm, but when asked to put on his big boy pants, he has consistently failed. This team needs Lindholm to be the #1, because we all agree that Fowler is much more suited for the #2 role or carrying a 2nd pairing.
Yeah, that’s not nearly good enough. It’s only 34.I actually think I can name 62 I’d take over Cam right now, I just don’t have the energy right now. I’ll try as many as I can which I’m sure won’t be good enough
Keith
Doughty
Karlsson
Burns
Hedman
Josi
Subban
Slavin
Vlasic
Carlson
Stralman
McAvoy
Krug
Provorov
Faulk
Klingberg
Letang
Reilly
Werenski
OEL
Gostisbehere
Pietrangelo
Sergachev
Trouba
Jones
Morrissey
Suter
Chabot
Giordano
Ristolainen
McDonaugh
Schmidt
Byfuglien
Brodin
Just off the top of my head...Cam’s a nice player but pretty out of his depth trying to be what the Ducks think he is for some strange reason
I’m pretty disappointed that Lindholm hasn’t taken that next step and is still inconsistent but I disagree about Cam taking all the tough minutes. Cam plays more minutes but Carlyle has used the Lindholm pairing against other teams top players the most out of anyone since the beginning of last season. And even the playoffs two seasons ago he was the guy matched against McDavid while playing with a rookie in Montour.
I actually think I can name 62 I’d take over Cam right now, I just don’t have the energy right now. I’ll try as many as I can which I’m sure won’t be good enough
Keith
Doughty
Karlsson
Burns
Hedman
Josi
Subban
Slavin
Vlasic
Carlson
Stralman
McAvoy
Krug
Provorov
Faulk
Klingberg
Letang
Reilly
Werenski
OEL
Gostisbehere
Pietrangelo
Sergachev
Trouba
Jones
Morrissey
Suter
Chabot
Giordano
Ristolainen
McDonaugh
Schmidt
Byfuglien
Brodin
Just off the top of my head...Cam’s a nice player but pretty out of his depth trying to be what the Ducks think he is for some strange reason
You know what Paul, I tried to look up the deployment stats but was unsuccessful. I know last year was flip-flopped more often and seemed more contingent upon who(m?) Manson was paired with, but I wanted the stats and I would really be interested in what those stats show. IIRC, wasn't that right when Fowler was coming off like a torn meniscus or something? Not saying that Lindholm wouldn't have been deployed against him anyhow.
I think a couple of those are debatable, but even so that's only halfway to 62. He's a top 62 defenseman in the NHL.
Fair enough. I'm frustrated about things right now, so hard for me to keep a level head at times I supposeYou know what Paul, I tried to look up the deployment stats but was unsuccessful. I know last year was flip-flopped more often and seemed more contingent upon who(m?) Manson was paired with, but I wanted the stats and I would really be interested in what those stats show. IIRC, wasn't that right when Fowler was coming off like a torn meniscus or something? Not saying that Lindholm wouldn't have been deployed against him anyhow.
I think a couple of those are debatable, but even so that's only halfway to 62. He's a top 62 defenseman in the NHL.
I think what you are seeing this year and some of last year from Cam suggests he has taken a step back. I know the whole team is bad right now (and almost all of the dmen), but I was really hoping Fowler would progress into a leader of the defense, and instead I see him playing more and more passive both in front of the net and in the offensive zone.Yeah, that’s not nearly good enough. It’s only 34.
What is your definition of a #2 that you think that’s not Fowler? I think you put him next to any of those guys and that would be one hell of a top pairing.
I think what you are seeing this year and some of last year from Cam suggests he has taken a step back. I know the whole team is bad right now (and almost all of the dmen), but I was really hoping Fowler would progress into a leader of the defense, and instead I see him playing more and more passive both in front of the net and in the offensive zone.
He was quite possibly our best player in that series against the Blackhawks a few years ago. I haven't seen that guy in a while personally. Maybe it's the RC effect, maybe it isn't.
But I get your point
I have no real reason to believe it, but I feel like Carlyle's end is closer than most of us dare to hope.